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What is atheism?

Wikipedia says atheism is a "the absence of belief in deities," and "many self-described atheists are skeptical of all supernatural beings." I want your input.

I'm always interested in different religions and ideologies -- or lack of them. What's your interpretation of atheism? What's your description of a Christian?

If you share you ideas with me, I'll share mine with you!

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

jeff wrote on Jan 9, 2008 12:54 PM:

" How I understand it and from most of the Atheists writings that I’ve read and believe in Atheism does not mean that you believe a God or Gods cannot exist. A true Atheist is open to the idea that a God or Gods can exist, but they believe there is no data available currently to prove that any do exist. I don’t think anybody can accurately define a Christian as there are many denominations who all believe something different. You could get a different definition of what a Christian is from Christians’ themselves and this is just one of the many reasons Atheists do not believe in God. Most Atheists believe that if there was a God that existed then that god would show itself and its laws or rules in such a way that there would be no question of what the right faith would be. "

PJ wrote on Jan 9, 2008 3:03 PM:

" That pretty much sums me up. "

gaucho mom wrote on Jan 9, 2008 3:19 PM:

" Jeff: I think you are defining agnosticism. Atheists believe there is no god. "

Alan G. wrote on Jan 9, 2008 3:38 PM:

" My opinion differs slightly from Jeff's in that I believe an atheist is absolutely sure, beyond a doubt that there is no higher power or deity. Agnostics are open to the possibility that a higher power exists, but want absolute proof that they can see and verify. I fall a little closer into the agnostic territory, but find it's easier to use the term "atheist" so I'm not constantly defining agnosticism to people. It's kind of like telling people that Hanford is half-way between LA and San Francisco rather than saying it's 17 miles West of the I-5 on Hwy 198 in the San Joaquin Valley. An atheist has no rule book, so it's up to us to make our own decisions and live with the consequences of our actions rather than blaming our woes on the will of god(s). I have a certain idea of what Christians should be, according to the bible, but there are so many different interpretations that it will make a person's head spin. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jan 9, 2008 5:53 PM:

" I wonder what exactly is the common unifying force that bonds together atheists? Many seem very proud to be called that as evident by the Sentinel bloggers over the past months. What gives them a sense of community or other commonality? What guides them in establishing positive life values and mores? Why exactly should I follow the precepts of atheism anyway? Am I missing something that only the atheist community sees? So many questions . . . "

jeff wrote on Jan 9, 2008 11:51 PM:

" TO: gaucho mom – Yeah that’s what I believe. TO: Everyone else - I guess I didn’t clearly define what I meant. First I will say that as of right now I believe there is no God, there is no proof of one and there is no higher power. That doesn’t mean that I can’t also believe there could be one if someone could prove it i.e. I’m open to the idea if proof could be made available. That is Atheism. Agnosticism is the belief you can neither confirm nor deny the existence of God in other words a claim of not knowing. I feel that I absolutely do know there is no proof of God and I highly doubt proof will ever be made available. "

zenmom wrote on Jan 10, 2008 8:46 AM:

" "An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished, war eliminated."

~ Madalyn Murray O'Hair "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Jan 10, 2008 12:17 PM:

" When I was an atheist it was because I could find no evidence of God in my abundant 17 yrs of life experience on the planet. Once I came out publically as an atheist it gave me a sense of purpose that I finally had a belief system, something to stand up for, something I could defend. I realize now that my desire to stand up and defend was really just a way to simultaneously feel 1) morally superior, 2) intellectually superior, and 3) to get attention. It was great because people would automatically line up with me or against me, which meant folks were either agreeing with me or trying to save my soul, which made me feel good either way. Not saying that's how it is with everyone - that's how it was with me. And then I found evidence of God and, like an idiot, began trying to be morally and intellectually superior in a different way. Grace is a very good thing, thank God! "

Mrs.D wrote on Jan 10, 2008 1:00 PM:

" I don't believe in Atheism. "

Magenta wrote on Jan 10, 2008 1:52 PM:

" Alan, you got it right. Alej: what makes you think anyone needs a guide on how to have a sense of community or what ethics or morals to live by? I have neither and need neither. I was recently told by a God-fearing person that I was more ethical, moral, and honest than any Christian she has ever known. I don't need a guide to life to tell me what's right and wrong. My parents seem to have done a good job. And I don't need a label to know who I am or to advertise anything. I just am, and don't mess around with categories. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jan 10, 2008 2:30 PM:

" Superb comment, Devil! Simply superb! "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jan 10, 2008 3:08 PM:

" The quotation from Madalyn Murray O'Hair shows a completely arbitrary set of moral standards predicated upon nothing more than whim. What force guides the notion that a hospital should be built? What if the atheist wanted a brothel instead? And what moral principal determines what "deed" must be done? Couldn't that deed be murder, robbery, rape, or incest? As for "striving for involvement in life," well, we read about that every day in the police blotter, see it on tv, and hear about it on the radio. Religion provides a useful moral compass that can either be followed or not. "

Skeptic wrote on Jan 10, 2008 8:34 PM:

" I am a dyslexic agnostic with insomnia. I lie awake at night and wonder if there really is a dog. "

Jay wrote on Jan 11, 2008 1:11 AM:

" Jeff, I once again encourage you to read Lee Stobel's book, Case for Christ. Strobel, an atheist at the time, discovers Jesus did once walk the earth and is whom Christians proclaim, all while originally researching to discredit Christianity. Regardless of the formal definition of atheism, the bottom line is its people who dont accept Jesus as their Lord and savior. All I can say to this is, if by some obscure chance their is no God, what have us Christians lost by believing Jesus exists? However, if we Christians are correct and there is a heaven and hell, and the only way to heaven is thru Jesus, then you non-believers have lost out on eternal salvation? Its a pretty big risk if you ask me.... "

MrBiggMan wrote on Jan 11, 2008 6:19 AM:

" Atheism is a word that should not exist. It would not exist if it wasn't true that MOST people believe in a 'god' (whatever that is). Atheist is a word used to describe anyone who is NOT a theist. It's like a word to describe someone who does NOT watch Soccer on TV, for example "asoccerist". If you describe someone this way you say nothing about what they DO watch on TV, only what they do not watch. It's a bit of information that does very little to describe the person's viewing habits. In the same way, "atheist" describes anyone who is NOT a theist (someone who believes a god exists).

As far as "agnostic" goes - this word refers to knkowledge, not belief. Everyone, even the pope, is agnostic.

A Christian is anyone who accepts the divinity of Jesus, and believes this entitles him to a special place in the afterlife. Nothing more. Of course you'll hear people refer to "real" christians, but this is nonsense, since there's no objective way to determine what is "real" about christianity. If you followed the teachings of Jesus you'd probably be locked up in a mental hospital, or homeless. "

Interesting Topic wrote on Jan 11, 2008 10:34 AM:

" Atheism vs. Christianity? What about the Eastern religions? "

gaucho mom wrote on Jan 11, 2008 10:58 AM:

" I believe that atheists and agnostics are actually morally superior because they do right simply because it's right and not because of the promise of a future reward. Morality is not dictated by religion, and many religions have different sets of morals, each right within that religion but different from each other. I certainly don't feel that I can judge which is right, but Christians have no problem doing so. "

jeff wrote on Jan 11, 2008 10:59 AM:

" TO: Jay – Your argument is known as ‘Pascal’s Wager’ and is a very common if not the most common argument made by Christians. I believe it to have many flaws for example. 1. How do you know which God to believe in? 2. If I believe in God for the sole purpose of just to get into Heaven won’t God know this? 3. If there is no God I will lose lots of time and money and 4. It sounds a lot like a threat. I could go on and on but there just isn’t enough room here. I would say to you "It is better to live your life as if there are no Gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in Him." "

jeff wrote on Jan 11, 2008 11:41 AM:

" TO: MrBiggMan – I’m curious then what would you call someone who does not believe in a God or Gods? Are you saying that non-believers should be given no title? Agnostic does not mean knowledge, A = without Gnostic = knowledge so Agnostic = without knowledge. Everyone is only Agnostic if you take the literal definition of the word not as it applies in this context. So then A = without Theist = belief in God Atheist = without a belief in God. You should be adamantly against the use of the word Agnostic as well given your logic. "

Magenta wrote on Jan 11, 2008 11:50 AM:

" Jay, so what if a Jesus once walked the earth? What does that have to do with my life today? As I sit here and wonder how much electricity I am burning up, what I will have for lunch, if my animals are hungry yet, what Judge Milian will decide today, it truely makes no difference if a Jesus walked the earth. As for taking a risk and devoting my days to studying what happened there 2007 years ago, well, I can't miss People's Court to worry about that. "

Agnositic at best wrote on Jan 11, 2008 12:21 PM:

" after fifty years of looking for GOD I decided to let him or her find me now!!!!!! and what a great two years it's been "

JohnFromLemoore wrote on Jan 11, 2008 1:00 PM:

" In simple terms, an Agnostic is anyone who is uncertain about wheather or not god exists. An Atheist has a belief in no god. As for Christians, well there are many definitions to what Christians are. "

believer wrote on Jan 11, 2008 3:46 PM:

" by definition, an athiest beilieves there is no God, We all know darwin, and we all know he was an athiest who taught evolution. what you may not know is that he renounced athiesm shortly before he died and said it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in a higher power.

as far as "Christians", its realy nothing more than a generic term nowadays. long ago it was a term for those who follow Christ. it has now become an overly used term to categorize many religions. religions are nothing morre than man-made rules.

your best bet is to read the Bible and try to be a good person. no one is perfect, but it doesnt hurt to try.

by the way, an athiest believes their uncle was a monkey. do you? "

jeff wrote on Jan 11, 2008 4:39 PM:

" TO: believer – Your monkey comment is ridiculous no Atheist in the world thinks their Uncle was or is a monkey and no evolutionist thinks we evolved from monkeys. I do however believe that you are a primate or basically an ape since you share the same skeleton, internal organs and nervous system as gorillas, chimps and orangutans. Also just because someone is Atheist doesn't inherently mean they buy Evolution or that because you believe in God you can’t believe in Evolution. I’m not sure you understand what Evolution is. "

PJ wrote on Jan 11, 2008 4:40 PM:

" Just because someone is an athiest doesn't mean they believe in evolution. Some might, but i don't. My individual problems with christianity is how it depicts an all loving god. Yet makes a hell for those who don't believe in him and he never show's himself. Why would an all loving god send his message through men(prophets) and expect everyone to believe these men. If you don't believe these men you are going to hell? Something seems very backward there for an all loving god. "

Ashley wrote on Jan 11, 2008 7:03 PM:

" Wow I can't believe I'm getting ready to say this but, I'm gonna have to agree with Alan G. And as an agnostic we do get "lumped in" with the Atheists. I' meeting more and more people who, like myself, are self-defined non-believers in a deity and amazingly we are basically good people who are intelligent, loving, and positive contributing members of society as a whole. On the other hand I'm meeting more and more self-proclaimed Christians who are selfish, rude, arrogant, and generally jerks who use their "Christianity" to justify their judgments and attitudes.
And ... Thank You Gaucho Mom you said it well! "

dose wrote on Jan 12, 2008 9:47 AM:

" " by definition, an athiest beilieves there is no God, We all know darwin, and we all know he was an athiest

this statement is patently untrue, darwin trained in the seminary before becoming a biologist, he was also qouted as saying that writing "The Origin of Man" felt to him liken confessing to a murder.

His wife was a deeply pious woman who hated the theory of evolution, Darwin didnt like it either because it negated popular held religious beliefs. But he felt that the evidence for it was so strong that it must be.

Believer should try reading a book besides the bible at some point in his life. "

No such thing as religions wrote on Jan 12, 2008 10:20 AM:

" They are all cults. They are all social clubs. But there is such a thing as faith. Some have faith in God. They basically believe in something that does not exist. They believe in redemption, in the after life. Since there is no proof that neither exist, I simply don't believe in God. God does not exist. I do however exist, and I have faith in myself. If there really such a thing as a God, no man can even come close to identifying or explaining such a being. People like priests, prophets, shamans, whatever make me laugh. They all seem to know who God is and what God wants. They must receive emails and text messages from God daily. "

Jack wrote on Jan 12, 2008 11:45 AM:

" I laughed aloud at "Agnostic at Best's" post- thanks for that! This area is without a doubt rural and conservative and yet it surprises me to see so many (outspoken) agnostics/atheists. This type of rural, conservative region usually breeds a staunch Christian. Right now I'm pondering the correlation that so many of our top bloggers are agnostic/atheist and wondering what that means. To be honest, I will not feign that I do not believe myself morally or intellectually superior to Christians because I, an agnostic by choice, am not slave to an ideology that dictates my actions and thoughts. Why is it that intellectuals gravitate toward agnosticism/atheism? Is it because it's exactly that sort of innovative, "out-of-the-box" thinking that is required to be an intellectual? Does Christianity prohibit original thought? "

Amy wrote on Jan 12, 2008 11:53 AM:

" First of all, to zenmom, I think you are mistaken that atheists are the only ones that want hospitals built and disease cured. That's a prime example of what Devil's Advocate said about feeling morally and intellectually superior as an atheist.

I am a theist and I want good things for society to be done, and more importantly I think that God wants good things to be done for people rather than churches built.

Second:
To Jeff
For Christians, it is not better to just go on and live your life full of as much merit as possible to get to heaven (even though it is important to do good things). Salvation does not lie in good merits, according to Christians.

To MrBiggMan
It is possible to have words that describe things that a person is not.

You could say I am a theist because I believe that it is not true that god does not exist.
In logic, you could write it like this
t=me being a theist
g=god exists

the proof would look like this
t = -(-g)
English rules don't really follow the rules of logic. "

SIlent No More wrote on Jan 12, 2008 12:12 PM:

" As a reader of this blog for a few months I feel compelled to participate. Welcome aboard?
The dictionary defines atheism as: the denial of the existance of God, particularly with regard to atheistic formulations ( agnonosticism:skepticism) godlessness as a belief or guide in conduct. Christianity is defined as: the religion of those that accept Jesus Christ as God incarnate, are guided by the Holy Spirit and participate in the fellowship of the Christian Church.
That is pretty cut and dry. As a Christian, I believe the words of the bible "I am the way, the truth and the light. No one come to the Father except through me." There aren't any loopholes in that.
Reading these comments on the blog, recognizing my own sinfullness, if you choose to be an athiest, well you have the free will do so as I have the free will to do the opposite. The definitions of both are clear. I will pray for you, please be considerate of me.
Whew! I have been hesitant to participate for months. Devil's advocate: Thanks for the reminder that none of us should fall into the trap of moral superiority, especially Christains. "

Not so mad in Nevada at the moment wrote on Jan 12, 2008 1:33 PM:

" (smiling) Sorry but God doesn't send email or text messages... it has been said if you want to talk to God pray but if you want God to talk to you read the scriptures. And your right sometimes it is hard to explain what/ who God truly is. That is were faith and the Holy Ghost come in to help you decern those things. "

Fangdog wrote on Jan 12, 2008 10:16 PM:

" I believe you can be an atheist and be spiritual at the same time. In fact, perhaps more spiritual because of your relationship and harmony with the universe rather than the reliance of others for what your relationship with things should be. "

Sandra G. wrote on Jan 13, 2008 8:54 AM:

" God Bless Atheism! "

Mrs. Betty wrote on Jan 13, 2008 9:37 AM:

" I have meet wonderful people of every religion AND I have met horrible people from every religion. Just because someone lables themselves dosn't mean the fallow 100% or believe 100%...
My family and friends consist or different religions and beliefs. Rather than surrouding myself with peole who are of a certian label, I surround myself with positive people.
I work with the public and I wouldn't be able to guess one religion (or an atheist) from another.
"

Not so mad in Nevada at the moment wrote on Jan 13, 2008 1:03 PM:

" To Amy: I just want to point out that I do believe that our salvation does depend on our "merits" or "good works" We can't just sit back and say oh well I was baptized so therefore I am entitled to get to heaven. I believe very much so that is something that you have to work for- it isn't just going to be handed to you. "

Gao wrote on Jan 13, 2008 8:07 PM:

" Identifiying with any ism, regardless of what it is, you are a follower...and one who imagines he or she is superior. History confirms this.....our today's confirm this. "

jeff wrote on Jan 13, 2008 8:25 PM:

" TO: Amy – I have no idea what it is you’re saying. It sounds like you’re saying being a good person is not good enough to get you into heaven. The fact that this is stated in religious scripture is one of the reasons some Atheists are Atheists. It’s confusing to me that you would make that comment to me since I never once said that or even came close to insinuating it. "

Amy wrote on Jan 14, 2008 12:22 PM:

" Jeff:

You said this:
"If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in Him." "

You were giving your above advice to a Christian. For Christians, salvation isn't based on works alone, so your advice isn't too helpful for a Christian to follow.

Not so mad:
I believe that accepting Jesus is enough to get you into heaven. I also believe that works and good merits are important, if you love God you will try to be a good person, but it is not necessary for salvation. I think this fundamental difference seperates Christianity from other religions. I think it's really hard to grasp the concept that a God will accept people just how they are, without good works. It seems unfair (even to me) that a rapist or murder is just as loved by God as a newborn baby. That's why God's love is called "amazing grace". "

jeff wrote on Jan 14, 2008 12:46 PM:

" TO: Amy – I read over everything and I see where I misunderstood what you were saying to me. I don’t actually think that God will accept me on my merits but that’s because I think there is no God to take that into consideration. I thought you were under the impression I was saying that God does say this or it’s said in the bible. What I said to Jay in response to his comment is a quote I found on an Atheist web site and I posted it because it spoke directly to his comment I wouldn’t say that I actually follow the sentiments to a T in that quote because like I said I don’t think God will ever come in to play. "

jeff wrote on Jan 14, 2008 1:56 PM:

" TO: Amy – I do think you’re missing something important though. You say that God will accept a rapist or a murderer (And you noted you think this unfair) but you didn’t go on to say as it does in the Bible that they must accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior in order for God to accept them. Otherwise they will burn for eternity. This is just one of many things I find absurd in the Bible. If a rapist or murderer asks for forgiveness and believes in Jesus Christ he/she can be admitted to heaven. I on the other hand could devote my entire existence to helping less fortunate people but because I chose to not accept Jesus Christ I’m damned to an eternity of fire. "

Experienced wrote on Jan 14, 2008 2:33 PM:

" Unfortunatley, we tend to look at people for perfection, especially if you say you are a Christian, but Jesus was the only perfect man that ever walked the face of the earth.

We (as Christians) daily take up our cross and ask for guidance and repent. Taking each day as a new day and believing and falling in love with our creator. Because once you believe and confess.. and seek you will find...

For those who do not believe, what is it going to hurt to try and confess with your mouth and look for him.

From Experience I can tell you, he IS THERE and I can also tell you that he is there for you right now. As I look back I can see where he was.

I was an unbeliever too...but I was brought to a place in my life (desperation) that showed me.

Every knee WILL bow, and EVERY TONGUE will CONFESS that JESUS is LORD.

Why not do it know and experience peace beyond understanding... It is all about the heart.
Jesus is the way the truth and the life. "

to Amy wrote on Jan 14, 2008 7:24 PM:

" I think you are seriously missing something. Let me just get this straight...you are saying that no matter what you do in life, all you have to do is say "I believe!" and BAM! you have a place in heaven. You could be a lazy slob all your life, but as long as you "believe", you're going to heaven. You could be a criminal, and keep on committing crimes, but just as long as you say you "believe", you're going to heaven. You say good works is not "necessary for heaven." I don't suppose you go to church? Because if you do, tell them to stop helping people, do whatever you want, just get baptized once, and you're going to heaven. "

Experienced wrote on Jan 15, 2008 1:48 PM:

" Confessing, believing and seeking are steps.

I would also have to say that desperation led me to those steps.

I was desperate and when my heart was desperate he showed up in the most amazing way and I believe for everyone is different. Just like we are created differently.

Eventually, you will see..
That is what the song Amazing Grace is all about.
"I once was lost but now I am found, was blind but now I see"

Ultimatley, HE is the judge. "

to Experienced (and any other "Christians") wrote on Jan 15, 2008 3:34 PM:

" Ok, so you've "seen the light", confessed your sins, and now am a believer. Well my question is, now what? Do you just go on "confessing", or are good works involved? After all, what good is confessing and praying, if you are not doing anything good yourself? Where do good works come into play in regarrds to Christianity? Or do you just have to sit around, "believe in Christ" and not actually "do anything?" "

lc hanford wrote on Jan 16, 2008 4:07 AM:

" Boy I'am glad to see God getting so much attention, this is great. God bless everyone of you. "

Not so mad in Nevada at the moment wrote on Jan 16, 2008 10:28 AM:

" Good works are very important- when we are baptized we make a convenant with God that we are going to do certain things, like keep the commandments, take His name upon us and do everything we possibly can to be good people. Good works are not only keeping the commandments but doing service for others, being a good person... there is a whole list of ways to do good works. We promised God that we would do our part to return to Him and when we do our part He promises that He will do His. It's a partnership not a onesided thing. And He wants us to succeed and knows that we are not perfect and that is why He has given us repentance and forgiveness. "

Amy wrote on Jan 16, 2008 11:55 AM:

" I agree completely with "not so mad in Nevada" about after salvation making a commitment to God to try and stop sinning.

Also, to whoever said this:
"You could be a criminal, and keep on committing crimes, but just as long as you say you "believe", you're going to heaven. "

1. Saying you believe means absolutley nothing at all. Actually believing means everything. I don't think that everyone who says they are a Christian actually are Christians. God knows who actually believes and who doesn't.
2. Saying you are a Christian isn't like fire insurance from hell, it's not like you can be like "oh well now I have no responsibilty for anything anymore!" Like Nevada said, after you become a Christian you make a commitment to serve God, which involves good things. Christians (should) do good things out of love for God (and hopefully fellow man), not to get into heaven. And even then, if you kill someone there is still legal and social ramifications for your actions by society. Being a Christian isn't a free-for-all. "

Amy wrote on Jan 16, 2008 12:04 PM:

" My sense of justice is clouded by my imperfections. I may think it's unfair because I have difficulty forgiving a rapist or murderer, however, God's love is perfect whereas mine is not.

All people sin at some point in their lives, and sin is what seperates us from God. There are different social consequences of each sin (stealing a piece of candy won't land you in the slammer on death row) but to God, sin is sin no matter what it is.

In the Bible it says the penalty for sin against God is death (whether that means hell or not, is up for another debate for another time). Jesus came so we wouldn't have to suffer eternal death.

I'm sure you've sinned at least once (I have sinned many times)...so according to the Bible, that is enough for permanent seperation from God. Those who accept Jesus as their savior (and it's more than just verbally saying it) no longer have to be seperate from God for eternity.

I'm not an expert on hell, but I can say that I believe non-Christians at least are sentenced to permanent death. "

Experienced wrote on Jan 16, 2008 2:10 PM:

" Once I turned to him it was very hard to understand all the in's and out's but I just kept looking for him and thanking him for the peace each day.. The bible says to love him with all your heart, all your mind and all your strenght.. I can tell you again from experience he has shown me himself in everything I do... the closer I get the more I see... the more diligent seeking I do the more I get blessed...

The great thing is that there is no cap on God.. He is overflowing... You can never get enough.. It is almost like following the bread crumbs but they get better with the distance...

It takes faith... and only a mustard seed of faith... "

Ned Farrar wrote on Jan 17, 2008 10:17 AM:

" The best definition of atheism I know of runs like this: an atheist believes the universe does not require supernatural explanations for either its existence or to function. For this reason an atheist is predisposed to disbelieve in any of the various gods that various religions insist are responsible for either or both of these.

While there are atheists who say absolutely there is no god, most simply say there is no reason to believe in something for which there is neither need and nor evidence. This is not the same as agnosticism, which asserts only that the nature of god is. The distinction between agnosticism and atheism can be vague at times, but the agnostic may still “believe” in a god without claiming specific knowledge.

To define a Christian in brief is easy: he/she not only believes in a god derived from ancient Jewish mythology, but also that a man called Christ was his son, and that access to heaven depends upon correctly understanding what he said. However, since there are from 20,000 to 30,000 denominations each with different ideas of how that must be learned and acted upon, defining a Christian in practice is difficult. "

I have proof wrote on Jan 17, 2008 10:27 AM:

" God talked to me last night! God told me that you people who think he exists need to get a life. He does not exist. "

Not so mad in Nevada at the moment wrote on Jan 17, 2008 5:14 PM:

" To I have proof- is there really any reason to be disrespectful just because you don't agree? "

Jeff wrote on Jan 18, 2008 8:42 AM:

" TP: Amy – Far as I can tell you’re proving my point except you don’t really understand it. I never said just saying you believe is good enough what I said entails having to mean it. According to your logic suicide bombers are due a seat in heaven because they definitely believe in God and everything they do is what they consider to be God’s work. Also no, I have never sinned, and I don’t think anyone ever has. I would have to believe in God in order to sin and I do not believe in God.

Have you ever read the story of Hercules? It’s almost the exact same story as Jesus. He was born between a union of his mother and Zeus, Hera wanted to kill Hercules, he walked the earth performing miracles and trying to help mankind, he was killed and returned from the grave and when he did finally die he was sent to Mt. Olympus which back then was Heaven. "

Jeff wrote on Jan 18, 2008 8:42 AM:

" The whole story is simply a mythological tale that has been passed down to different cultures. Even pagans had a similar story, the one’s that were quasi Jews and eventually turned into Christians. The Egyptians had a story that is even closer about a man named Horus. Horus was baptized by water, Horus was referred to as the Lamb and the Lion, Horus is identified with the cross and he had 12 followers.

Jesus is really many characters all put into 1 such as Hercules, Horus, Har-Khuti and Khunsu. There is no more reason to believe in Jesus then any of these other mythical figures. There is no scientific or factual proof that Jesus ever lived, not one person wrote about him until well after he died and none of these writings are written by anyone who claims to have ever actually met or seen Jesus. The whole thing is hearsay. "

jeff wrote on Jan 18, 2008 12:30 PM:

" Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. "

jeff wrote on Jan 18, 2008 12:31 PM:

" 5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. "

jeff wrote on Jan 18, 2008 12:31 PM:

" 1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian. "

to jeff wrote on Jan 19, 2008 8:55 AM:

" Stop your preaching. Theres a limit on word count for a reason. "

O. G. wrote on Jan 20, 2008 4:49 PM:

" Atheism IS a religion according to Michael Newdow, a prominent atheist in his own right. Whether he speaks for all atheists or not I won't attempt to say, but certainly atheism has the same elements as any religion.
In regard to origins it actually requires just as much "faith" without the logic that creationists have.
From a theological standpoint there are three types of atheists. But any "atheist" who does not dogmatically believe that God does not exist isn't an atheist at all but rather an agnostic. As far as using Wickipedia for source material it's not 100% reliable since it's articles are derived from the blogosphere.
One of the worlds leading atheists concluded that the reason behind atheism is that without god there is nothing to enforce sexual morays.
Of course atheism isn't new. King David wrote about it in Psalm 14:
"The fool has said in his heart, 'there is no god.'"
"

O. G. wrote on Jan 20, 2008 5:08 PM:

" A young lady came home and told her Mother that her boyfriend had proposed but she had turned him down because she found out he was an atheist, and didn't believe in Heaven or Hell.

"Marry him anyway dear." the Mother said. "Between the two of us, we'll show him just how wrong he is."

"

O. G. wrote on Jan 20, 2008 10:37 PM:

" Jeff, why don't you try putting your own ideas in print rather than plagiarizing from atheist websites.
That's what people do when they don't have any original thoughts of their own.
That tired "top ten" list you gave on Jan 18, 2008 2:30 PM has traveled all the atheist websites and it's lies exposed by Christian bloggers many times over.

"

jeff wrote on Jan 21, 2008 9:28 AM:

" TO: to jeff – HAH! Well the Sentinel saw fit to post my comments so take it up with them and you might also want to see # 10 on the list. "

jeff wrote on Jan 21, 2008 10:47 AM:

" TO: O.G. – Yeah if you bothered to read my two posts before that you would see that I did give my own opinions. That list is a joke and I know it’s all over the internet. Funny thing is most people here have seen it. I assumed that the Christian Apologists such as yourself would be smart enough to realize what it was, guess I was wrong. Also what you write on Atheists is only half right. Atheism does not need any kind of faith and requires only logic where Creation requires no logic and only faith. Or do you not believe in science? Do you think air travel is witchcraft and modern medicine is voodoo? I almost forgot you’re a hypocrite by your own standards. Your quote by Michael Newdow is his opinion not yours when are you going to come up with something original already? "

Not so mad in Nevada at the moment wrote on Jan 21, 2008 12:32 PM:

" I have been thinking the last couple of days.... I have found that a lot of people who say they don't believe in God have somewhere along the way talked themselves out of believing. Whether something bad happened to them and they blamed God or they have researched so much and have talked themselves out of it. I am not saying don't study and know and understand what it is you believe. And what others believe so that you can better understand them. I firmly stand by knowledge is everything. But I think these people are thinking too much with their heads instead of their hearts. Sometimes there are things that we just can't understand or aren't meant to understand in this life. That is where faith comes in. We are going to be judge by the things in our hearts not all the knowledge that we have in our heads. Anyway... just something I have been pondering... "

jeff wrote on Jan 22, 2008 11:09 AM:

" TO: Not so mad - The same thing could be said in reverse to people who do believe in God. Except then I would say believers think too much with their heart instead of with their head. "

Not so mad in Nevada at the moment wrote on Jan 22, 2008 4:10 PM:

" Very true Jeff, very true. And like I have told you before I am very guilty of thinking too much with my heart. "

O. G. wrote on Jan 22, 2008 11:18 PM:

" Jeff, your use of adhominem attacks reveals the bankruptcy of your argument.
First of all I didn’t quote Michael Newdow. I merely repeated what Michael Newdow contends and then even credited him by name for that contention. Be that as it may, the attempt to stereotype believers as people ignorant of science shows how miniscule your understanding of both science and Christianity are. Nearly every major branch of science was begun by one who believed in God and most usually claimed faith in Jesus Christ. Sir Isaac Newton, scientist and devout Christian said this,"“Atheism is so senseless & odious to mankind that it never had many professors.” "

jeff wrote on Jan 23, 2008 12:45 PM:

" TO: O.G. – First off you obviously don’t understand what ad hominem means much less possess the ability to spell it. I implore you to look up the definition. Secondly almost every poll taken since the early 90’s shows only around 5% of Engineers and Scientists employed in the United States believe in Creationism. The National Academy of Sciences devotes an entire web site specifically to this. You can Google “national academies” “creationism” and or “evolution”. You can also Google, Edwards v. Aguillard 1986 if you would like to see a letter written by the Academy to the U.S. Supreme Court explaining why Creationism is not science. You’re probably right though a consensus of our most prized scientists, Nobel Laureates, state science academies and respected science organizations means nothing and a handful of junk scientists are probably more accurate. The rest of your post is ridiculous, science like everything else evolves. "

O. G. wrote on Jan 23, 2008 1:15 PM:

" "It amazes me to find an intelligent person who fights against something which he does not at all believe exists." --Mohandas Gandhi "

O. G. wrote on Jan 23, 2008 2:52 PM:

" Just for you Jeff, and take note of point (2):
ad ho·mi·nem /æd ˈhɒmənəm‑ˌnɛm, ɑd-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ad hom-uh-nuhm‑nem, ahd-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason.
2. attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.
"

jeff wrote on Jan 23, 2008 2:55 PM:

" TO: O.G. I take it then that you believe in Evolution? That quote doesn’t even apply anyways. What I fight against is junk science and I believe junk science and scientists do exist. I don’t believe God exists and I don’t fight God since he does not exist. I do fight against radical religious zealots which I also believe exist. Or are you saying that you don’t exist? I’m confused. Why is it when you argue with a Creationist they never respond with remarks that correlate directly with the line of questioning that has been presented to them? When I comment on your remarks I respond only to them and offer factual proof why they are wrong, when you respond to mine you paste quotes that have no bearing on the context of the conversation or ignore them completely and change the direction of the argument. Is it because you have no rebuttal? "

jeff wrote on Jan 25, 2008 8:17 AM:

" TO: O.G. - Show me where I've ever stated that what you were saying doesnt count because of your character please. You might want to look at definition #2 since you have skirted almost every question I've asked and every time you post you never even respond to what I'm saying. "

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