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Another View: Who will the haters love?

By Jim Shea
The Hartford Courant

I'm worried about hate radio. It could be losing its influence. If hate radio loses its influence, it will lose its audience. If it loses its audience, it will lose its sponsors. If it loses its sponsors, well, I'm not sure I want to live in a country where people can disagree without hating. I mean, debate without hate is so, I don't know, so lily-livered, so PBS.

Of course, the maestros of hate radio -- the Michael Savages, the Glenn Becks, the Big Kahuna of Hate his own self, Rush Limbaugh -- have only themselves to blame for their predicament.

In the race for the Republican presidential nomination, they put all their hate in one basket and lost big time. You would think they would have been savvy enough to hedge their hate, just in case it became necessary to switch hatreds in midstream. But they weren't.

No, the boys gave all their man love to Mitt Romney, and when he dropped out of the race -- after concluding that discretion was the better part of remaining wealthy -- they were left at the altar.

The obvious thing for Rush and his supporting cast to do would be to back the presumptive GOP nominee, John McCain. That, however, is not as easy as it sounds.

What got McCain condemned to hate radio hell is his position on illegal immigration. In hate radio's view, McCain doesn't hate the 12 million or so illegals in this country enough to be a real conservative, not to mention American.

So, for the mullahs of the microphones to start supporting McCain, they would have to ease up on their hatred of illegal immigrants, and that's just not going to happen. Life's too short.

Hate radio must not be allowed to fall silent.

If hate radio loses its voice, where will listeners go for their daily infusion of vitriol, "Prairie Home Companion?"

If hate radio fades to static, where will we turn for the half truth? Distortion? Mean-spirited humor?

And what would become of fear-mongering? Tell me life without fear-mongering isn't a frightening thought.

What to do?

Here is my suggestion:

I think all the hate-radio jocks, along with all the TV talking-head haters, should turn on each other.

Seriously, these people are not only accomplished haters but are themselves easy to hate.

We're not just talking Limbaugh and Savage here, we're also looking at the likes of Bill O'Reilly, Laura Ingraham, Sean Hannity and the undisputed Queen of All Hate, Ann Coulter.

This group would push each other to new levels of viciousness, which would be very entertaining, which is the point of hate media, right?

The hatefest would attract not only the regular hate-radio audience but people from the other end of the political spectrum, who would tune in to see people they hate hate each other.

Like I said, I'm concerned about hate radio. I hope this helps.

Shea is a columnist for The Courant.

(Feb. 15, 2008)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

A HISTORY BUFF wrote on Feb 15, 2008 3:05 PM:

" And AIR AMERICA was NOT hateful? OH, right, just the conservatives are hateful. You are correct. Liberals are never, ever full of hate. They never say an unkind word. Just full of peace, love, and joy.

Time to look up 'tripe' in the dictionary...

"

and by the way... wrote on Feb 15, 2008 3:17 PM:

" Reading 'tripe' like this, no wonder this newspaper is in a predicament:

"In recent years The Courant has offered an early retirement to nearly a dozen staffers and has laid off more than 40 more as they continue to suffer a decline in advertising revenue."

Some things decline because it is justly earned. "

Sid wrote on Feb 15, 2008 5:01 PM:

" A nice attempt at degrading something that when looked at with a different perspective looks totally different:

1. Al Franken of "Air America", a liberal talk station, wasn't considered here as "Hate radio". His show lost money, lost sponsors. He is HISTORY from the airwaves.

2. All the conservative examples used in the article here have solid sponsors, make lots of money for them, and are still quite popular with those (by the millions) who listen to them.

You don't spend money on things you "hate" do you?

Makes Mr. Shea's article cheap propaganda does it not?

"

SJT wrote on Feb 15, 2008 11:54 PM:

" Al Franken left Air America Radio a year ago to run for U.S. Senate from his home state of Minnesota (and running neck & neck with Norm Coleman in polls). He's putting his money where his mouth is, unlike Hannity, and his ilk. By the way, AAR is still alive and doing fine in the business of exposing crooks & liars, given the plethora of material with which to work over the past seven years.

It is true hate radio had been quite lucrative over the years, but the cracks are showing. Michael (Weiner) Savage has been losing sponsors nearly daily because of backlash against his racist, hate rantings. Bill-o's ratings in many markets have been so abysmal that Murdoch's News Corporation virtually pays stations to broadcast him. Speaking of Murdoch, Fox News Channel lost nearly $1B during its first five years in operation. Without his huge global media fortune, the station would not have survived such a hemorrhage. "

Devil;'s Advocate wrote on Feb 16, 2008 6:34 PM:

" Even if the column were true, the author is overlooking the ability of our Democratic leaders to tick people off, thereby providing fodder for the airwaves. And so many are still willing to vote for ANY Republican rather than cross over to the Dark Side. Plus, the talking heads are still harping about Slick Willy, and its been MANY moons since he was in office. So I don't think they are going anywhere. "

Sid wrote on Feb 17, 2008 10:51 AM:

" SJT, you are cherry picking your historical examples...

"Fox News lost nearly $1 billion in its first five years...". SJT, that was some 20 years ago now. Hillary Clinton turned $10K into a few million illegally some 30-40 years ago.

A comparison of Hannity to Franken is nuts: Just because one wants to run for office and the other does not is a weak retort. SJT, are you running for anything?

Franken is a (poor) comedian. His politics are accompanied by frequent cursing and put downs. Isn't that "hate" too? Don't think he will be reaching across the aisle much do you?

Hannity makes Fox money because people like what he says. Franken didn't make any for Air America, which was propped up by THEIR back closet money-bags mentor, George Soros. Without HIS money, Air America would be gone in total-it did shrink from it's peak size some time ago. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Feb 17, 2008 1:18 PM:

" Sid, As I have suggested to you many times before, at least get your facts straight before you start moving your fingers across the keyboard. Fox News Channel has only been around since October 1996. Using the math skills that I learned in the schools of Hanford, CA, that makes 11 years and 4 months. Far less than the "some 20 years" that you claim. Makes us readers wonder how reliable your other data and claims are. But pehaps you are only emulating the current executive branch of our government and reliability just isn't that important to you. "

Sid wrote on Feb 17, 2008 7:22 PM:

" Scott,

Couldn't but notice you took no issue with the meat of the discussion. Why? Easier to "niener-niener" is it?

Perhaps due to your being "found out" that:

-You would sacrifice the lives of your family so as to not waterboard a terroist with info which would save their lives. Interesting around the dinner table as of late Scott?

- Your saying China/India did "sign" the Kyoto accords which said signature was to allow them an EXEMPTION from any environmetally friendly practice. Yet you bash the USA for not signing due to this exemption...

- Using "cute" derogatory Swiss put-downs for those you don't agree with, "Depp".

Shows an individual who would sacrifice his OWN family, bash his own nation-give others a pass, and feel that socilalit/elitiest "privilege" of talking down to others in his "own elite language".

I took SJT to task for the issue. You made a "personal attack". Strange for someone who is alleged to side with those so tolerant of others to be so nasty and also avoid the point of discussion. You do that more than you may think.

Hope you had a nice flight home. "

The Oracle says.... wrote on Feb 17, 2008 8:06 PM:

" Bwaaahaahaaa.....Face facts, conservative radio is LISTENED to. Air America was not and went belly up. The liberal print media is laying employees off like a fire sale...Why? People don't want to read slanted, one sided news stories (are you listening Sentinel) Lets face facts..If Hanford has a conservative newspaper, the Sentinel would fold as well, as we sit in a conservative area. People want to read news, not how an illegal alien received a free house (Well not free really...you and I paid for it) The people also want the newspaper to look into and keep politicians honest. But alas, the Sentinel, when given numeous opportunities to discover, or at least ask some pointed questions, went for the easy stories. Then when asked here why, refused to answer, IE "Was the habitat for humanity family illegal?" Discourse, in their view can only take place if it aligns with the Sentinel's viewpoints. Just see "Thread Locked" views. But hey, it's their site. So much for the liberal all inclusive, "were a village" mantra...Speak the party, err, village line or else......Your thred will be locked. "

Just a Regular Guy wrote on Feb 17, 2008 11:26 PM:

" I can realy feel the hate.... Coming from the Writer of this article! He couldn't control his feelings,like most liberals, can not engage in an itellectual discussion, driven by their hate for the other side. No wonder Liberal talk radio always went broke, ofcourse that's what happen when you do not have substance, just garbage talk. "

jeff wrote on Feb 18, 2008 9:01 AM:

" Most of you are missing the point; the liberal folks didn’t put all of their money on say Edwards only to have him bow out. That is what this article is saying. That’s what I took from it and I think Air America talent is hateful and commits the same immature antics that conservative hosts do. I don’t know much about the history of Fox news or Air America but I can safely say that where I live both are doing just fine. I listen to both of the channels here, bouncing back and forth between them to hear the different sides and they are no different. They all act like dumb kids, make stupid remarks and resort to name calling when they have nothing left to say. "

jeff wrote on Feb 18, 2008 9:01 AM:

" Both of these organizations are helping to ruin political discourse in this country and all of you are jumping in head first saying “Please, please dumb down politics for me so I can finally get involved”. I do not support Air America but for all of you who claim they are no longer around you simply don’t know what you’re talking about. Just because you chose to not move your radio dial to that channel doesn’t mean it no longer exists. If you would take your blinders off you would notice that you’re all making almost the same exact claims against each other. If both sides are guilty of the same behavior then how is one the winner? The biggest thing not even being argued is that fact that this article is true. All of the right wing guys did this and it backfired on them. I read an article last week where Rush is now trying to back peddle and say he made fun of McCain because he thought it would actually help him with moderate voters. Give me a break! "

Here...Here Oracle... wrote on Feb 18, 2008 1:48 PM:

" Jackie and her croonies of liberal moralist have removed all threads allowed through initially about the Tejano vote...what does this say about the Sentinel pro-view on illegal immigration...watch this one be slighted too. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Feb 18, 2008 2:19 PM:

" Sid, when you misrepresent data and twist facts to support your argument, then that becomes the "meat" of the discussion. Because how can we get to the heart of the issue when you are spouting off false information and misleading readers?

I saw all of my family during my recent trip to CA and not a single family member had any problem with my comments regarding their hypothetical "security", because, Sid, my family's lives are based in reality and not in some fear-laced fantasy where terrorists are lurking around every corner. Torture is wrong and I will stick to my principles. My family support me in my decision.

Oops, I used the word "the" above, and, as we all know, that is the first word of "The United States," so I must have been subversively attempting to bash the country I love. When your children litter, Sid, do you bash their classmates instead?

"Depps" are not cute, Sid, nor does the word even sound cute when spoken aloud.

The flight home was like all transatlantic passenger flights: boring and long. But any flight that you can walk away from is a good one, so thanks. "

Jackie K. wrote on Feb 18, 2008 2:24 PM:

" First of all, I do not have "cronies." I travel solo. No comments have been deleted from a thread by our hand, unless the thread has been previously closed. I'm wondering if you're thinking about a previous Maria Elena Salinas column. Check our More Hot Topics section. "

Sid wrote on Feb 18, 2008 3:57 PM:

" Scott, yours of 17th @ 3:18PM:

"Makes us readers wonder how reliable your other data and claims are... you are only emulating the current executive branch of our government and reliability just isn't that important to you. "

1. You really dislike me to place me with someone you also loath, our current president. (Fine).

2. Just who is the "us" in "Makes us readers..." Did you poll any-all readers before posting here?

Your 18th @ 4:19PM:

"...when you misrepresent data and twist facts to support your argument".

3. What facts (plural) do you refer? What data? According to whom? You?

Scott, so Fox News has been around less than my approximate-off the cuff note. Fine. Why the big deal about it specifically? An attempt to marginalize someone you don't like perhaps?

I surmise it is due to frustration: You speak yet are not taken at unquestioned face value. A teacher without students eyes agog perhaps. Use of the schoolyard name calling...

No idea what you really said to your family, but I think it wasn't the conversation on waterboarding vs your families lives we spoke of earlier.

"

The Oracle says... wrote on Feb 18, 2008 4:30 PM:

" Scott..."Fear laced fantasy?" Do you have NO memory of September 11, 2001.....Terrorists are here Scott, whether or not you and your liberal ilk want to admit it. They just killed THREE THOUSAND AMERICANS. Oh, but thats right, you guys want to handle it as a law enforcement matter...I guess we can cite them into court like we do illegals here in the U.S.....OOOPS...Most of the 9-11 hijackers were here illegally. Maybe your views are just skewed as nobody has flown a plane into the country YOU are living in...Yet
Fear laced fantasy? Hey citizens of Hanford...Are you having any of these? I just wish that 9-11 was a dream. Sadly, it was not, and worst, Im sure its going to happen again in the future. Hopefully 'ol Scott can find them and call the secret witness number so we can cite 'em into court...That is if they fly through Sweden "

Scott Tucker wrote on Feb 18, 2008 4:53 PM:

" Sid, I don't dislike or loathe you. I don't even know you. It's too bad Jackie K. wasn't able to get the blogger's get-together off the ground, because maybe we could have met and you could have impressed me with your sageness and wit and charmed my wife with your good looks. What I do dislike, however, are some of your stances on the issues. And I guess the same can be said of you regarding my opinions. But that is all part of the game. For all I know, you're probably a decent guy with an impecable resumé. As far as the "us" is concerned, I can only assume that I am not the ONLY reader of the online articles and comments. (Insert 3-letter Homer Simpson self-revelatory exclamation!) I thought I made it abundantly clear which fact I was referring to above, but let me spell it out for you again: F-O-X-N-e-w-s-C-h-a-n-n-e-l-h-a-s-b-e-e-n-a-r-o-u-n-d-f-o-r-o-n-l-y-1-1-y-e-a-r-s-a-n-d-n-o-t-f-o-r-s-o-m-e-2-0-y-e-a-r-s-l-i-k-e-y-o-u-c-l-a-i-m-e-d. Got it? I am not frustrated. It is actually quite rewarding revealing the Texas-sized holes in your arguments. And lastly, you are right, you have no idea what words were shared between me and my family, so please don't speculate. It makes you look foolish. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Feb 18, 2008 5:06 PM:

" Sp-OR-ozoid-ACLE, It will be hard for me to find them and call the secret witness number if they fly through Sweden, as I reside in SWITZERLAND, a small country several thousand kilometers south of the one you are thinking of. Another example of why you are the current holder of the derogatory term Sid enjoys so much. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Feb 18, 2008 5:46 PM:

" Well, Scott is evidently back to his preferred home half a world away and full of his salty liberal opinions. Is this not proof of the nature of teachers today in setting an example for young minds?

The personal attacks on conservative individuals here, Scott, are without merit or taste and frankly you disappoint me. Yet, we all do take our lumps as well as dish it out. Now, all we need to do is mention religion so that jeff, Alan ‘muhahaha' G., dose, and the other usual suspects can ‘meet and greet' safely right here in this blog.

This is an example why the bloggers get-together failed, and rightly so. We cannot rise above our petty squabbles it seems, and our nature of ‘right' and ‘wrong' is best exercised in print only. Unless we can wait for that new 20,000+ pound critical incident vehicle to arrive, that is . . . "

Sid wrote on Feb 18, 2008 11:09 PM:

" Scott opines to Sid:

"It is actually quite rewarding revealing the Texas-sized holes in your arguments."

You know, the size of Texas comes very close to spanning the distance between Sweden and Switzerland. I wouldn't say SEVERAL THOUSAND KILOMETERS, just perhaps under one thousand kilometers. That depends on where you measure from of course...

"

jeff wrote on Feb 19, 2008 9:34 AM:

" Oracle, As an American you are 66 times greater of dying in an accidental drowning then a terrorist attack. As an American you’re twice as likely to be killed under a vending machine then a terrorist attack. You are 225,409 times more likely to die in an auto accident then a terrorist attack. The truth is you have a 0.0000008% chance of dying in a terrorist attack on American soil. Using your logic we should all be in doors hiding under our beds because a shark could attack us at any moment. “...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Hermann Goering; Nuremberg Trials, 1946. Alejandro, why did you come out of hiding? You sound exactly like ‘History Buff’ especially the way you complain about like minded people commenting on here. What do you think you, Oracle, Devil’s Advocate and Sid are doing? Stop being such a coward. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Feb 19, 2008 10:09 AM:

" Way to go, Sid! Extra points for you! Glad to see that at least one of you guys payed attention during Geography class. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Feb 19, 2008 11:51 AM:

" Now, if only I had PAID attention during my spelling lessons, maybe I, too, would look less foolish. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Feb 19, 2008 2:55 PM:

" Someone here asks:
"What do you think you, Oracle, Devil's Advocate and Sid are doing?"

We are American citizens who happen to love the United States of America.

We speak out to defend our home as a country of laws, freedoms, and traditions.

We strive to preserve our national identity from those who would actively or passively destroy it.

We will not idly sit by and allow malcontents to disgrace the sacrifices made by those who came before us as well as those who defend us now.

To be sure, ‘what we are doing' is upsetting to the ‘hate America first' crowd, but it is most definitely the right thing to do.
"

Sid wrote on Feb 19, 2008 6:33 PM:

" Jeff,

Oracle and Alejandro are highlighting that defense against terror is a work in progress. Your examples of other percentages of dying may be accurate, but they are accidents and not attempts at PREMEDITATED MURDER of innocents and on an international stage at that. Question is how much prevention is acceptable to individuals: too little or too much?

Scott,

At the risk of not passing the Sentinel blog screener (Jackie?)...

May I point out a difference of approach seen on this blog over items that are not really germane to the article in question nor a big deal, but:

-Your attempt to excoriate and marginalize those you don't agree with, in this case myself, over an error in how long Fox News has been around is in contrast to...

- Your similar in size/scope errors in geography and spelling are "laughed off" by yourself.

Your application of scrutiny and penalties for perceived errors is not consistant. Funny how that happens...

I tried to make that point more aggressively yesterday, but it obviously didn't pass the Sentinel censor. Perhaps Oracle's earlier point about a "thread locked" type of censorship is in place? "

The Oracle says... wrote on Feb 19, 2008 7:27 PM:

" Sweden, Switzerland, all I know is that it's not the USA...You know, the same country you throw under the bus first. But hey, if your Obama-mania guy gets elected, you guys can plan on how your going to bomb our allies and frolick with our sworn enemies....His words, not mine "

The Oracle says... wrote on Feb 19, 2008 7:35 PM:

" Numbers lie and people lie with numbers......Spout your rhetoric to the three thousand dead Americans in the world trade centers. Im sure they would disagreee. What are the odds of dying in a nuclear attack? Miniscule....But if it happens by a rogue group such as "GASP" real terrorists, that would sure skew your numbers wouldnt it? "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Feb 20, 2008 8:46 AM:

" Jeff, my one comment could be summed up by saing that what the author calls "hate radio" won't be destroyed by Republican indecision. I have been enjoying reading the exchange, as people make poor or twisted arguments and have them blow up in their faces. Quality entertainment. I liked your "odds" for modes of self-destruction - I work to radically change my odds by usually driving safely, not swimming alone or in unsafe waters, by not tipping vending machines, by not swimming with sharks, and by not letting people that vehemently call for the destruction of America, kill their own countrymen for political gain, strap bombs to women, children, and the mentally-disabled, or dismember US soldiers gain access to MY country, legally or otherwise. Seems prudent to do these things, especially the last, since traffic, water, vending machines, and sharks aren't actively seeking to hurt Americans. I also pay my life insurance premiums though I know the odds are really against my being dead anytime soon. Have a nice day. "

jeff wrote on Feb 20, 2008 11:21 AM:

" Alejandro - ‘Someone here’, really? Do you not even remember what you said Feb 18, 2008 at 7:46 PM? Yeah Oracle it would and so does a 90 car pile up in heavy fog but hey I bet you still drive everyday. Sid, accidents yes but if we spend this kind of time and money on something that has a very small chance of killing us intentional or not doesn’t it seem odd that we spend almost nothing (Compared to the ‘War on Terror’) on things that have a much higher chance of killing us? DA, of course these radio shows won’t be destroyed I don’t think that’s the writers point. Do you have death by vending machine, shark or terrorist attack insurance? To all of you my comment to Alejandro when I said ‘What do you think you, Oracle, Devil’s Advocate and Sid are doing?’ was only to show that you all think similarly and you are posting comments just as Scott and I. It was not an attack or some sort of put down. I believe most of you took it that way but I wanted to be clear. "

Will A wrote on Feb 20, 2008 11:54 AM:

" I laughed reading this article. Always amusing to see liberals getting bent out of shape. In fact I got just as much enjoyment out of reading this rant as Shea would supposedly get from watching Conservative Talk Radio go at eachother.

So much of what we hear from conservative talk radio hosts makes assumptions about the typical liberal democrat whatever person because it's just easier to think in terms of black and white. That's what sells I guess. I happen to agree with Reagan that our liberal counterparts are well meaning... wrong, but not bad people. It's really a shame that the debate in this country has gotten so stupid. This article is a perfect example. "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Feb 20, 2008 10:35 PM:

" Windbag, when my name shows up shortly after a Nuremburg defendant without a real clear cut line suggesting you are not grouping me in with him, I feel the need to respond. So let me be blunt: I find your manner of communication offensive. For the sake to peace in the blogs, let's agree to stay out of each other's way, ok? "

Sid wrote on Feb 20, 2008 10:50 PM:

" Jeff,

If a vending machine or the like falls on you, you may have life insurance (or not, your choice. So is rocking the machine, your choice albiet a dumb one).

I most strongly disagree with the perception you are giving: That terrorism is in the same league as a vending machine falling on you: since the odds are 'low", why invest in insurance or prevention?

I have a good friend whose sister was killed by terrorists on 9-11. I get to see her and her family deal with that today, some 6 years since it happened. Many in this country have "gotten over it", 9-11. They never will.

My tax dollars should pay to prevent another, similar attack; a very basic government function. One well worth the cost in cash to prevent personal pain the victims and families have to deal with.

Jeff, can't express enough my disappointment and even disbelief in how you view this. So I won't. But I hope you don't have to experience it the hard way like some Americans have had too. They all most likely wish we would have spent more on prevention... "

jeff wrote on Feb 21, 2008 12:40 PM:

" Sid, Everyone who has a family member that dies either intentionally or by accident screams that it should have been and could have been prevented. Would you want your tax dollars used to feed poor children who can’t afford food? Do you want your tax dollars spent on medication for poor children and families who can’t afford them? Do you want your tax dollars spent on housing homeless people so they don’t die of hypothermia? I believe you would say yes but your politics don’t actually support it. I am not talking about illegals in this country but Americans. More children die every year from gun related deaths then people killed on 9/11, do you want your tax dollars spent on gun control and eliminating guns from our country? Why is there so much focus on just this one area by Americans? Do I think we should do nothing to prevent terrorist attacks in our country? No I don’t think that and that isn’t my point. My point is we as a country now spend more on fighting ‘Terrorism’ then things that actually will kill us. "

jeff wrote on Feb 21, 2008 12:40 PM:

" DA – Well I have to assume your last comment was for me since you mention the Nuremberg quote but you were rambling and incoherent so I’m not positive. Your response is very pedestrian and I was surprised to see you write it. I had come to expect more educated postings from you. I think you might be the only one here who read that quote and thought I was categorizing them with the Nazi’s. I’m not going to explain why I posted that quote it should be very obvious what the point was (How you missed it I’ll never understand). The fact that you took it as some kind of slanderous statement against yourself shows you to be weak minded in my book. I believe your last response was to my comment where I said my comment to Alejandro wasn’t meant as an attack and even then the comment I was referring to was not the Nuremberg quote. As a caveat if your last comment was not directed at me then I take all of this back. This writing is all based on your latest posting being directed at me. "

Sid wrote on Feb 21, 2008 5:05 PM:

" Jeff,

You refer to the redistrobution of wealth via taxes. The question of course is that the role of government? In more socialist forms, I guess it is, could be, or has been. How well have socialist governments worked out do you think?

National defense IS-IS in the charter of the US governments perview. The goverment is supposed to do it, period.

Your wanting to equate that terrorism (remember premediated murder ? A crime at the least) to accidents (not a crime) is on the same level; Sorry, your logic is beyond comprehension.

I guess the picture of folks jumping out of buildings is not fresh in your memory or perhaps it didn't hit close enough to home for you to feel that pain or that of your fellow countrymen.

You of course may have the last word. I'm done. "

dose wrote on Feb 21, 2008 9:06 PM:

" To Sid:

You asked how well have socialist governments are working out. Well China seems to be doing pretty good.

Also since you support this war so much and want to keep America safe, when are you shipping out for Iraq? "

jeff wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:11 AM:

" Sid, your response (In my eyes) gives further evidence to the hypocrisy that surrounds the Iraq war. So many people say we must do it to save lives but they don’t really want to save lives. If that was true and if you really meant what you say you would have a different view point on so many issues. Saving American lives is not really your agenda. If it was we wouldn’t be at war in Iraq, this is not helping to make any American safer.
I’d prefer Socialism over a Corporate Police State any day of the week. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is also a part of our government. If you think all Americans get an equal shot at this then there is large part of this country you are severely disconnected from. "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:46 AM:

" Windbag, perhaps you can suggest a support group for a weak-minded blogger that makes rambling, incoherent, pedestrian, and uneducated posts? Sorry it was unworthy of your favorale opinion. I find it interesting that you take back what you said IF IT WASN’T DIRECTED AT YOU, though. Wouldn’t it STILL be a rambling, incoherent, pedestrian, and uneducated if it were directed at someone else? Wouldn’t it STILL be the product of a weak mind? What I don't get is how you still expect people to take you seriously, despite the inconsistency characteristic of your usual posting demonstrated here. If only your consistency (or brevity) had half the magnitude of your self-aggrandizement, that would be … truly inspiring. I fear your ethnocentrism causes a disconnect in your mind. Anyway, I’d like to thank you for letting me know exactly where your goat is tied; I look forward to pulling your strings in the future. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Feb 22, 2008 10:14 AM:

" Jeff, your comments in response to Sid only reveal what I have written about before, namely the lack of prosocial behavioral skills of some of our fellow bloggers. It seems that they only ever look out for Nr. 1. Forget about sharing or caring. If it does not directly benefit me, me, me, then it must be bad, evil, and un-American. I just hope these guys aren't banking on their social security checks to keep them afloat in their old age, because, as we've been told on numerous occasions, "wealth redistribution" is immoral and wrong. Also, your comments about caring for/hating Americans first are right on! "

jeff wrote on Feb 22, 2008 12:23 PM:

" DA – Yes, what you said would still be a rambling an incoherent statement but if it wasn’t directed at me I wouldn’t feel it to be my place to critique it. Also, most of the points I brought up would be invalid if you were referring to someone else’s comments. Did you really need this explained to you? Please enlighten me as to how I’ve been inconsistent or will this be just another time when someone says my point of view is wrong but fail to offer any logical example of why I am wrong? Where is my goat tied exactly? You’re the one getting his feathers ruffled here and it’s quite comical.

Thanks Scott, I agree with you and I’m dumbfounded with the way some of the people here look at this.
"

Not so mad in Nevada at the moment wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:21 PM:

" I am thinking that some people on here are suffereing from a little cabin fever. Maybe you should step outside and get some fresh air. Maybe a little a sun if you are so lucky to have sun right now. Breathe a little.... yes, no, maybe..... "

To "dose" wrote on Feb 22, 2008 4:49 PM:

" Sid has served his country well for a veeery long time, and I had the honor of serving with him for many of those years. No one should be so foolish as to question his service and commitment to our country. My best to you, dose, and your service to our country is appreciated. "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Feb 22, 2008 5:01 PM:

" Scott, all that talk about caring and sharing and I'm suddenly picturing you as a big purple dinosaur in liederhosen. I've got kids, man - you gotta be careful how you string stuff together or I get flashbacks. "

dose wrote on Feb 22, 2008 6:29 PM:

" To TO dose:

How long did you and Sid fight in Iraq, what unit were you in, and why aren't you there now protecting America? "

The Oracle says... wrote on Feb 22, 2008 7:07 PM:

" My god man, am I reading these correctly? We have bloggers saying that they prefer socialism? Is that what we have come to here? I can tell you that if you EVER have a thought of forcing this upon others, you are making a very very bad mistake. You should choose your words carefully. China is a good example? Are you smoking crack? If you left wing liberals want socialism, communism, islam style governments, etc, GO where they are, live there and see what you think. But it will be after my and others last breath that it will come here. "

Concerned wrote on Feb 22, 2008 10:00 PM:

" Sid,
I have very similar thoughts to yours and have long thought that pictures of those poor human beings jumping, desperately trying to survive should be plastered everywhere in our world for all to see, especially your counterpart who doesn't seem to get it. Those 3,000 plus souls had never prevoked the deadly attack that beckoned at their door. Anyone who doesn't think terror is real and that not for our attention directed where it is currently their would be many more attacks just like that one, is off in la la land and dreaming of camels. This is not the end of it, the minute we let up or allow ourselves to be distracted that hell fire and brimstone will return in a furry like we have never known. We aren't crying wolf the attack on 9/11 really did happen and those who planned and developed those to take it forward are still planning and are still capable and are just waiting for the right time, right place where we drop our guard and they will return. You want proof, well wasn't 9/11 their second attempt at that target? 1994????????? "

Scott Tucker wrote on Feb 23, 2008 4:12 AM:

" DA - would references to handbag toting, purple-triangle wearing figures serve you better? ;-) "

dose wrote on Feb 23, 2008 12:38 PM:

" To Concerned:

I wanted to let you know since your so concerned about the safety of Americans, and by no way do I mean any disrespect to the people that died on 9/11. But every year around 200,000 Americans are either killed or wounded by their bathrooms. So I figure after you save all of us from the terrorists in Iraq you can save us from the terrorists that are right here in our country. The dreaded restroom. "

Sid wrote on Feb 23, 2008 7:08 PM:

" To "to dose" and "Concerned", thank you and I appreciate your own comments/views.

Oracle, you may have identified the stirred up socialist bloggers who visit this site! Congrats! (I think...)

Dose, yes you are disrespecting those who died on 9-11 with your bathroom analogy. Just for fun, can you reference your source for 200.000 Americans killed or wonded in their bathrooms for me?

China "doing pretty good"? Perhaps you are unaware that they shoot their criminals shortly after their first sentencing. How does that square with the anti-death penalty left? Copyright violations. Poison pet food. How about China saying to all Olympic participants to keep their anti-China views at home? Do socialist birds tolerate other soclialist extremism?

Are "dose" and "jeff" one of the same? Blog "trolls" perhaps?

Mr. Tucker,if prosocial behaviour is illustrated by you excoriating those who make minor mistakes (and then you make them yourself!), name calling and broad brush condemnation of those with whom don't agree with you, (or you not with them) then it is all yours!

Scott, I would rather keep my pay into social security than count on it to "keep me afloat in my old age". "

LOL wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:15 PM:

" That was a really stupid comment by "dose". "

SJT wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:43 PM:

" Hate radio broadcaster Sinclair is in the news now. To refresh, Sinclair is a media conglomerate that had planned to run a hit piece on John Kerry in October, 2004 but pulled it because Sinclair's stockholders and sponsors threatened a backlash if they ran it, suggesting the network had become abusive of public airwaves. Turns out that Ms. Iseman was hired in '98 to lobby on behalf of a Sinclair shell company. Her mission: get anyone on the Hill who would listen to the pleas of Sinclair suits, to stop the FCC from closing a loophole which would have prevented Sinclair to expand its cluster of media beyond what the law allowed. Apparently, she got the ear of the chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, Sen. John McCain. Question now is whether right wing haters on the radio and TeeVee will back their candidate, assuming they really ever did, as more evidence is revealed. Stay tuned! If only Attila the Hun could be a write-in, huh? Funny still, is while Barack and Hillary are talking about change and hope and solutions, etc., John McCain's message is, "I did not have sex with that woman". Is it Karma? "

jeff wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:15 AM:

" Sid – Your last comment was very offensive and quite a surprise coming from you. I don’t know why it shocks me when someone of your ideology crosses over the line of decency but yet it still does. I guess the gloves are off from this point forward. Didn’t you say you were done commenting on this subject? "

Sid wrote on Feb 25, 2008 3:15 PM:

" Jeff,

Last comment was about keeping what I pay into social security for myself. What was offensive about that? Its my pay and social security is a Tax is it not? Plus, I will most likely NEVER SEE a dime of what I paid into the system when I become elligible.

I am unhappy with/don't wish to discuss the victims of 9-11 and other terrorist attacks as similar to or of less value as those who "Died in the restrooms of America" or other similar drivel. That is borderline sick in my opinion and doesn't fit any societal logic pattern. With that aspect, I'M DONE with those people who besmirch the memories of the dead, innocent victims of premeditated murder in cheap, tawdry comparisons.

With my permission, you may color me INTOLERANT on this front.

A "troll" I've been told by folks more internet/blog savvy than I are those that deliberately say stupid or controversial things just to spin up others to watch them spin, to "troll" for action/attention.

Also, If others "talk" to me after "I'm done", good or bad, I reserve the right to respond as I decide, weighing the merits accordingly. "

dose wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:37 PM:

" To Sid and To dose:

Neither one of you have been able so far to tell me when you served in Iraq, what your rank was, your unit number. Etc...

SomI am going to assume that neither of you have ever served, rather you sit on your couches and scream and wail to get other peoples children to die in your unnecessary war.

Unless either one of you can prove me wrong. "

dose wrote on Feb 26, 2008 1:31 PM:

" Well I wrote two comments on Monday night responding to Sid and a few others on here, but the good people at the hanford sentinel apparently dont feel that my comments are postworthy. Even though I didn't use any curse words or violent or demeaning language.

Makes me wonder if someone is trying to influence this discussion. "

Steve wrote on Feb 27, 2008 11:37 AM:

" Nice try at trolling, dose, but no cigar. Apparently "Sid" and "to dose" don't really care what you assume or think of them. Me either. Why don't you give this a rest and start over on another blog? "

jeff wrote on Feb 27, 2008 12:34 PM:

" Sid, you spout all this rhetoric talk of patriotism but what is it that you do personally to save American lives from ‘Terrorism’? You might say pay taxes but hey you pay them already and the Govt decides how to spend that money so you’re not really giving anything new up are you? You do scream at everyone here how Bush and his administration is right in everything they do so you could say you give up your own free will but you’re a religious man so you haven’t possessed free will in years if not decades. You might say you give up personal liberties by allowing the Govt to spy and retain personal information about yourself but it’s not like you voted for that so you’re not giving up anything and instead it’s being taken from you. The only way you do anything to support your claim of being patriotic is your voting record. Wow what sacrifices, what a way to lead by example, what a convenient way to be able to feel morally superior to other people. "

jeff wrote on Feb 27, 2008 12:38 PM:

" Sid, The only thing I see you giving up is your conscience since you seem to feel that American soldiers being killed in Iraq is a perfectly fine thing to have happen as long as you can sit in your living room on your computer telling other people how they’re wrong to question a President and an administration that perverts liberty and the American way of life in the name of patriotism and a tyrannical, fascist and make believe God. "

The Oracle Says... wrote on Feb 27, 2008 7:22 PM:

" ....Jeff, we have to set in our homes, lest someone like who posts here, burglarize it. Your last comments are out of line. Yet, the good editor allows it here, while others never get posted. Yes, it is selective editing on the Sentinel's part. If it does not fit or apply to the liberal agenda, you won't make it on for the most part. Its funny in one sense...We conservatives are allowing a liberal to censor what we say, to better make their agenda, and at the same time, we make money for them as people are attracted to the boards to read our comments (edited of course). And really, whats the point? "

W.O.W wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:33 PM:

" To Scott:

Remove yourself from this fray! There are more important issues at hand.

"

Sid wrote on Feb 28, 2008 7:30 PM:

" Jeff,

You last blog entries directed at me; I counted 16 times where you said "you" or "your" or variations thereof assuming what I would think, say or do, etc.

My, you must know me better than I do!

However, my computer is not in my living room...

Seriously, Scott once was upset, with some justification, when I or anyone else "assumes" to speak THEIR minds. Partially a limited capability of this blog medium, sure. But also an indicator of how one side or the other will never, EVER agree, come to terms, be civil, etc., with the other side and places their adversary always at the other end of the spectrum..

I find much fault with Bush: Iraq (shoulda kept their army intact), immigratio, he is a lousy speaker...

You may embrace socialism, fine. In the USA, you will have a fight on your hands, me included.

But your equating vending machine accidents, shark attacks and hypothermia, etc., are on par with victims of PREMEDITATED MURDER terrorist attacks? That is beyond the pale.

So long Jeff. Good luck.

"

Scott Tucker wrote on Feb 29, 2008 3:09 AM:

" W.O.W., If by "more important issues" you mean such things like doing the dishes or completing my tax returns, then I guess you are right. Doing chores around the house is more important than arguing with a bunch of guys who hide behind pseudonyms, but someone's got debunk their false claims and argue on the side of decency and human rights. "

Sid wrote on Feb 29, 2008 10:03 AM:

" Scott opines:

" W.O.W., If by "more important issues" you mean... is more important than arguing with a bunch of guys who hide behind pseudonyms..."

"W.O.W", I don't think Scott thinks much of your use of a pseudonym. Probably doesn't like "dose" either, or "Jeff" (his real name?) not using his last name. Even though your politics may be similar, Scott by his comment must think less of you guys, too.

Scott, this is a BLOG. Blogs are informal. Articles published go by much more different/formal standards. They also get folks to chat who otherwise would not: they can remain anonymous OR don't need to write/publish a formal article with all that implies.

Weigh the merits of what they say! Not who they "say" they are! The consistant bloggers use consitant names and develop a personality, etc. As the majority of bloggers here and on other blogs use pseudonyms, regardless of their politics, I suggest you get used to it.

Plus, local bloggers don't have the mental sanctuary of being across and ocean and behind the Alps Mountains when they toss a rock into the local pond here to create ripples...

"

ALEJANDRO wrote on Feb 29, 2008 2:21 PM:

" It's an ego thing for these libloggers. They expect us to listen and then get ticked off when they are ignored. They so love to see their name in print, don't they?

If you don't think this is part of their sociopathy, remember that one annoying liblogger openly bragged about breaking the law on January 9th (11:13 A.M.) thusly:

". . . when I lived in Hanford I did a lot of bad things including
burglurary [sic], vandalism and assault.
Fortunately for me I was smart enough to not
get caught . . . "

It was wise of Jackie to not sponsor the ‘bloggers tea' after all, for safety's sake.

Let's just continue to speak the truth and confront them only when WE want to. Watch them squirm when we don't play their game. If they are not brought to task by those who uphold the Sentinel's blogging ‘rules of the road,' let's rise to the challenge.

The TRUTH, our truth, is far mightier than their pathology. "

The Oracle Says... wrote on Feb 29, 2008 7:06 PM:

" ...Precisely correct Alejandro, thus my comment about sitting in my house, lest a blogger here burglarize it....(His words, not mine) "

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