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We stand beside Dave Hawk

Editor: We, the Session, the governing board of Lemoore Presbyterian Church, have absorbed with sadness the news concerning the arrest of our colleague, friend and parishioner, David Hawk.

We will not comment on the charges levied when the arrest was made except to say the following:

1. We are confident that there has been no time while Dave has been present as a member of this church, in worship and at other events, when any part of this church family has had any reason to be concerned because of his presence.

2. We believe in the American principle of justice that one is considered innocent until proven guilty, and until it is proven otherwise we, the Session, will continue to believe in his innocence on all charges.

We will be praying for Dave and for justice as this case proceeds.

3. Dave is a member and officer of our church family and we love him. We will stand beside him through this whole process no matter what happens.

We invite you to pray with us for him and for his children.

We do not know what the future holds for Dave, but we know who holds the future.

The best leadership we can offer is to encourage you to pray, to listen to God, to seek God's best for our life together.

Rev. Sandy Brown

Lemoore

(June 4, 2008)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 4, 2008 11:05 AM:

" We the Public stand behind the victim Debbie Hawk and pray daily for the just verdict to come of this horrible uneccessary taking of her life from her loving children.

Whoever caused this horrific, devistating blood lenting murder should be locked away for ions in the realm of darkness with fire and brimstone at his feet for eternity. What he has taken from her children is wrong and should be punished to the full scope of the law in the name of justice for Debbie Hawk.

Anyone capable of ascertaining the coming court date the attack on Debbie Hawk's attorney, and the disappearnce can solve this crime. Who had the most to gain, who had the most to lose and the answer glares out like a flickering flame behind a kerosene lantern in the dark of night. The glare of which is blinding.

So you officers and Reverend back your parishoner, just hope you don't mind the friends of Debbie Hawk take a little higher road to justice. One that pursues the guilty party at all costs without reservation should he be a cloak and dagger member of anything or anybody. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 4, 2008 2:22 PM:

" How utterly rediculous is this letter and statement. How about some concern for the victim and the children? 300k missing from their educational fund, fraudulant loan, fraud for four other counts of tax evasion?

Let's be real about support offered for people in the community who obviously don't deserve it? "

Confused Senior wrote on Jun 4, 2008 3:50 PM:

" Rev. Browns final statement, "We stand beside him (Dave) no matter what happens" leaves me confused.
Dave Hawk is Not the victim. I'm curious to how many church members you have lost because of your stand.
I would also like to know what the National Presbytery
concerns are regarding this subject. My prayers are for Debbie and the children. "

Hanford Native wrote on Jun 4, 2008 3:54 PM:

" I guess Dave gave up trying to convert to Catholicism. Thank goodness. Let it be noted that when the mother of Dave Hawk's children, Debbie Hawk (who was also at one time a very involved member of your church) went missing not you, or any currently active Lemoore Presbyterian member, went out looking for her. Shame on the Session, and on you, Sandy Brown. Your decision to make this statement (again) only peaks the public interest on what you and your church have to hide. However, I'm sure that will all come out during the trial. That being said, supporting a member in the time of trouble is one thing. Saying that you'll back him up "no matter what" is another. This makes me sick! "

cnf wrote on Jun 4, 2008 4:30 PM:

" This is a great example of why I do not attend church. "

Dear Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 4, 2008 4:32 PM:

" I think I love you! You know the saddest part about Rev. Brown's position, this all could have been avoided. If only Sandy Brown had provided spiritual & marital counseling to his "officer and parishioner" about what a good husband/father does for their family. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jun 4, 2008 4:37 PM:

" I guess this is what a 'change of venue' is for, right? "

AFT wrote on Jun 4, 2008 7:09 PM:

" WHAT???Did I just read this right? Rev. Brown what God do you pray too? My God has taught me to pray for everyone...Sir my question is what about praying for Debbie? WOW! And what about Debbie's family? Oh my, so the whole Presbyterian Church stands behind Dave "no matter what." Okay; well all I can say to your members is I will light a candle and pray for you all. "

still jumping to guilty wrote on Jun 4, 2008 8:11 PM:

" We the Public stand behind the Constitution of this Country and support the right to a fair trial and to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. We also support freedom of religion and speach. Watchdog Fred, most of the time we agree, but you are still leaping to a guilty verdict before the trial and evidence are provided to us. I don't know either party and am not totally convinced he is guilty. If he did shoot her attorney then why can't they tie him to that crime either? If he paid someone to do it, then follow the money trail and prove it. We don't convict the most likely suspect we convict the one proven guilty in court. I also support a change of venue for this case because a guilty verdict could easily be appealed and possibly overturned. The church letter was well within their rights and we don't need to agree with them, but they definitely have a right to say what they did. Everybody who has assumed Hawk is guilty will be eating a lot of crow if a different killer is ever found. "

Yep wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:15 PM:

" I stand by Hawk, too, as I have stood by my many friends: Saddam, Stalin, Osama, the person at McDonald's who can't get my order right, Pacman, and Hello Kitty. "

DL wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:29 PM:

" You know I went to this church a few times and almost joined. Glad I didn't. However, it is remarkable and rare to see a preacher drinking his parishioner's Kool-Aid as opposed to the other way around. "

Rosewater wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:54 PM:

" So I suppose that no one here has any sympathy for an innocent man. Try to keep in mind here that Dave Hawk has not been CONVICTED of anything by a court of law. "The Public" seems to have decided this mans fate before any judge and jury has had a chance to consider the case.

Dave Hawk is obviously part of the church family, as I am assuming Debbie Hawk is. There is nothing in that statement saying that Debbie Hawk's dissapearance is not a tragedy; it is, and I pray for her friends and family and of course her children.

But since this lynch mob seems so adamant about crucifying a man who has found himself alone and trying to prove his own innocence when the majority of the community has already convicted him, I will stand with Dave Hawk. He is innocent until proven otherwise, and I pray that the American judicial system will do its duty. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 4, 2008 11:18 PM:

" Reverend Sandy Brown at Presbyterian Lemmore, California, Would you mind providing us the information on how low the turn out for services are this coming Sunday? I am sure a drop is headed your way over the next several Sundays.

Let me get this straight an accused Pedophile is still an Officer in your Church? A thief accused of taking 300K is still an Officer in your Church? A man who stands accused for tax evasion on four counts is an Officer in your Church? A man who is accused of commiting Bank Fraud is still an Officer in your Church? A man accused of Murder for Profit is still an Officer in Your Church? What pray tell does it take to be removed as an Officer in your Church?

Wouldn't you think that for the consideration of the children within your church you would at least ask him to step down from being an Officer until this is resolved?

Will you stand beside him even if he is found gulity Reverend? I want to be sure of what you are commiting to here? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 4, 2008 11:35 PM:

" To Dear Watchdog Fred - Thank You and I Love You To.
I just get blood a boilin' and skin crawling when I think a man of the cloth and his parishoners will back there chosen Officer and fellow parishoner even if the man is convicted of murder.

Glory be to God, but I don't want to be there at the Pearly Gates when Reverend Sandy Brown tries to pull off this miracle in front of Saint Peter.

What's next an assassination on Debbie Hawk's character in an attempt to free your beloved Officer of the Church?

I thought Johnny Cochran blew my mind but he paled in comparison to you. Your audacity Reverend Sandy Brown is only surpassed by your blind faith in a criminal.

What's next the pulpit fit so you must acquit? I wonder if this isn't a ploy to upset the public to ensure a change of venue? But just like Scott P. this has received so much coverage and the time line is so vivid you can't get anyone to swallow an innocent plea in the state.

Call Nancy Grace! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 5, 2008 8:25 AM:

" This is addressed to the Reverend Sandy Brown, I laid awake last night trying to formulate in my head the words I would use to pose questions to you today. I went over it several times and realized there is only one way to ask them, so here goes.

God forbid, had Dave Hawk been married to your daughter and it was she who vanished off the face of the earth, would you still be so outspoken and readily available to back Dave Hawk, no matter what happens? After the letter you broadcast for everyone to read, I think you should be required to answer that question.

If you can convince me and the other readers that your commitment rests that deep then perhaps we can understand your position, not accept it, but at least understand it.

I lay there thinking Debbie's mom and dad kept coming into my thoughts hence this question. So many people devistated and yet you single out the primary suspect to defend? I just find it mind boggling, you sure you have the support of your parishoners in this matter? "

To Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 5, 2008 2:55 PM:

" You have put into words the feelings and questions so many of us local residents have. It seems so strange that Rev. Brown has so much defense for Dave and no feelings for Debbie or the Children. We Pray that Rev. Brown and the part of his congregation that he speaks for do some soul searching. "

Rosewater wrote on Jun 5, 2008 6:12 PM:

" I'm sorry, did I read a different press release than everyone else? Did you folks get the abridged version? I seem to remember reading Rev. Brown asking us all to "pray for Dave and his CHILDREN." It seems some of you out there are conveniently removing pieces of this release that don't fit your interpretation.

I also seem to remember Rev. Brown saying that at not time did anyone in the church, which would include children and the parents of those children, have cause for concern for his presence.

The fact is that NONE of you know Dave Hawk. And NONE of you know Rev. Brown. So before you set your belligerent assumptions in cement and start making wildly inaccurate accusations, take a walk in the shoes of an innocent man accused of murdering the mother of his children.

WATCHDOG FRED - This whole matter seems to be taking up entirely too much of your time. I understand and appreciate your passion for what you think is right, but please, before you cast your stone at Mr. Hawk, consider, what you would do if your friend was accused of murder? "

not sure wrote on Jun 6, 2008 6:19 AM:

" I am not really sure a change of venue is necessary. It would appear so if you only read these posts, but there are many more people in this county who would decide a verdict based on evidence presented ONLY and not speculation on a newspaper blog.

I for one, will wait until ALL evidence is in BEFORE deciding on guilt or innocence. "

Mrs.D wrote on Jun 6, 2008 12:59 PM:

" Rev. Brown, can you say all that to a bunch of survivors of violent crimes? If you can, please let us know so we can bring video cameras. Because people who lost loved ones in violent acts would love to see it. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 6, 2008 2:50 PM:

" Rosewater - I am not using anything concerning Reverend Sandy Brown that he didn't lay out in his own hand in his letter supporting an accused murderer. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong in this case, I hate to think of the possibility that this man viciously attacked and killed the mother of his two children.

We are sensible people in Hanford we see a skunk, we smell a skunk, we figure it's a skunk. He doesn't have to spray us for us to know he is capable of it!

What example has David Hawk shown to your parish? How to be a loving husband and provider to his wife? How to set the example for his children and to respect law and order. If his interviews regarding the Police is any indication that isn't happening! Unless he is his own Church with tax exempt status I'd say he will be serving time in Federal Prison.

One thing I guarantee you is Dave Hawk will receive a fair trial here in Hanford, that is more than I can say Debbie got. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jun 6, 2008 2:50 PM:

" To: "not sure"

What evidence do you have to show us that there are 'many' supporters of Mr. Hawk?

The press and community have relentlessly documented the sadness brought about by the loss of Mrs. Hawk and the impact on her family, friends, and children. And to the community, it seems.

We also know via the media every alleged indiscretion attributed to Mr. Hawk.

Also, the prime suspect in her disappearance and presumed murder is the husband - Mr. Hawk.

So, while I do agree with you that I personally would weigh his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt on the evidence presented, I would hope that there would be at least 12 locals (plus alternate jurors) untainted by preexisting opinions, to determine his fate.

Just to preserve our concept of law.

It's that important. "

my . wrote on Jun 6, 2008 2:58 PM:

" Rev. Brown, of course you will "support" Dave Hawk "no matter what".

As an ordained minister, you cannot, and should not, do otherwise.

Forgiveness is a fundamental aspect of the Christian faith.

Your support for Dave Hawk belongs in personal conversations and prayer. It does not belong in the Hanford Sentinel. Your letter reads like the testimony of a character witness at Dave's trial.

Sadly your expression of support begins to read like you want Dave Hawk to avoid a guilty verdict by any means.

This tragic affair has shaken the community, Debbie Hawk’s friends and family and last but not least, her children.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would be lambasting a Presbyterian minister in a public forum today. But here I am. I suppose this event has helped many of us re-examine our beliefs.

As for me, I believe that God is great, and some churches are also.

Here endeth the lesson. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 6, 2008 3:04 PM:

" Rosewater - I caution you just because the Hanford Police Department says they have no new evidence, doesn't mean they don't have very convincing old evidence to prove what happened to Debbie Hawk and by who's hand it happened.

Let the trial run it's course and then we will decide the capabilities of the Officer of the Presbyterian Church!

Since this has happened Rosewater, did you ever wake up in the morning and ask yourself the question, I wonder what Jesus would do?

Reverend Sandy Brown knew full well the impact his letter would have on this community, and I still suspect that is his reason for writing it. Hoping Dave Hawk will get a change of venue, about the only thing it is gonna get is a proposal for the higher authority in your Church to take a good look at the practices of the Reverend and Parishoners in their Lemoore, Ca. Church. Higher authority being God.

Lemoore sure seems to be having a problem with homicide in the past few years. Butchers running wild with knives and killing an innocent war hero walking his dog. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 6, 2008 3:18 PM:

" Rosewater - perhaps someone needs to keep stirring this pot. You know it isn't like the victim can rise up and tell what happened. The killer saw to that didn't he?

Have you ever asked yourself the question as to why the first comment out of the accused mouth was you can't charge murder without a body?

Why would that be the first response to your wife has disappeared? Why wouldn't it have been when, how, why, where? It was as if he already had all those answers didn't need to ask the questions, wonder why?

How long do you think with the aid of farm chemicals it would take for a body to decompose?
Look at the case in Fresno where acid was used, which eats bone and all.

Why if they didn't have evidence would they charge him with the most difficult case to prove Murder in the First Degree?
No Rosewater Debbie may have been silenced but I will not be until the conclusion of this trial and beyond. This is personal with me, this is for Debbie and those two children. "

Rosewater wrote on Jun 6, 2008 4:20 PM:

" Watchdog Fred - I certainly understand and appreciate the community's rallying around Debbie Hawk and her children. She is missing, probably under dubious circumstances, and we all have our suspicions as to what happened.

My problem is with people not asking the right questions. Are you certain that MURDER is the right accusation for Mr. Hawk? Are you certain that Debbie Hawk is dead? If it were me, and someone in my community was missing, I would leave no stone unturned until I knew for certain that they were alive or dead.

This community, sadly, including Debbie's family, have already accepted the fact that she is dead. And she very well may be. But that doesn't mean we should stop trying to find her. "

Rosewater wrote on Jun 6, 2008 4:30 PM:

" Watchdog Fred - Yes, I certainly have asked what Jesus would do. And the answer is clear to me. Compassion. Compassion for the lost and compassion for the accused.

He would say "Who so ever is without sin, cast the first stone". He would remind us that judgement is not our place. And he would pray for forgiveness.

He would stand next to those who stand alone, and ask everyone else to do the same. Murderer or savior, it wouldn't matter. Stand with compassion and understanding in the face of darkness.

This is what Jesus would do. "

wow wrote on Jun 6, 2008 5:27 PM:

" Rosewater – Are you implying that you believe Debbie is still alive? "

not sure wrote on Jun 6, 2008 5:42 PM:

" To Alejandro, In answer to your question, "What evidence do you have to show us that there are 'many' supporters of Mr. Hawk?

Get it straight, I said, "I am not really sure a change of venue is necessary. It would appear so if you only read these posts, but THERE ARE MANY MORE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTY WHO WOULD DECIDE A VERDICT BASED ON EVIDENCE presented (during a trial, was I thought implied) ONLY and not speculation on a newspaper blog.

I for one, will wait until ALL evidence is in BEFORE deciding on guilt or innocence. "

Basing a jury verdict on the evidence alone has nothing to do with "supporting David Hawk".

Just clearing it up. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 6, 2008 6:37 PM:

" To Rosewater - Well I'll tell you one thing I am not going to participate in and that is giving false hope to Debbie's family and friends through such inane comments like "are you sure she's not still alive"? What mother with the compassion that Debbie exhibited for her children would not make every effort to contact them and let them know she was still alive? What about her mom and dad, a friend don't you think if she were alive she'd reach out to one of them?

Sometimes enuendo is heartfelt and sincere, but then there are other times when it is damaging and unthinkable. Your compassion meter with the readers just dropped below minus zero.

Do you honestly think that compassionate Jesus would forgive this man who led his wife like a lamb to the slaughter? Who stole her last breath from her body and left a blood letting crime scene for her children to walk in on and witness? To coin a phrase from Dr. Phil if you want to talk to me, you gotta tell me the truth!!! Lies are for the Defense team. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 6, 2008 7:30 PM:

" Rosewater - what's in that water you been drinking? Compassion is your answer, that is the only thing you think Jesus might do in this case? Well I guess the accused will find out with him on judgement day?

Do me a favor get your 10 Commandments out and read through them and tell me how many he is accused of by his peers? Then give me the list you feel he has been charged with and we'll see how faithful this Officer of the Presbyterian Church in Lemoore, CA. really is?

Did the Devil somehow say poof your a pedophile, Poof you are a thief and have stolen 300k from your children. Poof you didn't report earnings four times to the IRS. Poof you obtained a loan that was fraudulant? Poof you commited murder? Boy the Devil was busy in the accused persons life that day. First stone I see about eight of them thrown out by him. What would you expect Jesus to do wink and turn the other cheek? "

Dear Rosewater wrote on Jun 6, 2008 10:12 PM:

" If you had been reading the Hanford Sentinel or watching the news in the past two years, you would have known that this case was upgraded to a homicide. There would be no reason to do so, unless there was enough evidence to rule as such. In addition, I do know the accused, the victim and the author of this letter to the editor. How would you like your crow cooked? "

jh wrote on Jun 6, 2008 10:47 PM:

" Reading this blog makes me feel like I am visiting the state mental hospital. Maybe some of you church people need to be detained there a while.... :-) "

personal bias Fred wrote on Jun 6, 2008 11:27 PM:

" I'm beginning to think you, Fred, will be very disappointed if a different killer is ever identified. It's one thing to believe a person is guilty, but here it seems you really want him to be guilty. Not knowing either him or her, I'm almost positive she was murdered, but I'm not positive he did it yet. I need more than just motive and a few unrelated alleged money type crimes or violations. I want the killer found, I want to know what happened, I want the body found, I truly want justice. I don't need the killer to be him, but it sounds like you do. This trial will be a chess match and the defense is already winning. I wish they waited for more evidence and to find the body. Even in your example with chemicals, that body was found. As for DNA evidence, I believe they both still saw each other sometime and their kids were at both homes at times. This can easily cause the spreading of DNA which makes the case harder to prove without the body. "

HOW COULD YOU wrote on Jun 6, 2008 11:28 PM:

" I GUESS MR. HAWK HAS BEEN PAYING HIS TITHE'S FAITHFULLY AT LEMOORE'S PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH. AMEN TO THAT. "

Exhanfordite wrote on Jun 7, 2008 12:00 AM:

" If it doesnt fit......... "

Hanford Native wrote on Jun 7, 2008 6:44 AM:

" If it doesn't fit....you crack me up! Then there will be a civil trial. Hmmm...he was found guilty there, huh? Even Charlie has followers. I guess that's what makes the world go 'round. Dear Lord, help us all. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 7, 2008 1:38 PM:

" I am a hypocrite... "

Lemoore resident wrote on Jun 7, 2008 2:30 PM:

" I think alot of people expend alot of time and energy on these blogs. Nothing wrong with having an opinion but some people seem to have no life outside this blog. I checked other articles and watchdog fred seems to been on most. My parents taught me long ago not to believe everything I read. All the guilt seems to be pointing at Dave Hawk but until the end of the trial and all the evidence comes out we won't know if he is guilty or innocent. It breaks my heart that her children would have to deal with something like this but why call him guilty before trial. Do I think he did it, most likely. Would I say he did it for sure, no way. Maybe some of you should take some of this energy you have for this case and try to do something nice for her children. A fund raiser. Maybe donate some money to the victims compensation fund in her name. Alot of people like to talk and talk and talk....why not try to make a difference. "

not sure wrote on Jun 7, 2008 4:05 PM:

" The one thing I do know, no one in the community should do anything to jeopardize MR. HAWK getting a fair trial. I think most people have made their minds up what they believe happened. I knew Debbie, I saw her with her children, I saw her with my own grandchild. Her eyes lit up around children. Is she still alive,? No way would she do this to her family. My only comment regarding MR. HAWK...what kind of father would knowingly allow his children to walk into that house, find what those children found? That is a sick person. And I suspect he might need all the prayers he can get. My prayer for him is...God's will be done. My prayer for Debbie's children and family and dear friends....God give you peace, and may God lead someone to reveal where Debbie is....this family needs closure.

Re: MR. HAWK'S position as a leader in his church....the Bible is pretty clear that a man who is not in control of his own house cannot be a leader in his church. But remember....no matter what, one day MR. HAWK will have to stand before God and answer some pretty intense questions. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:26 AM:

" To Jackie: (To Watchdog Fred) - I'm a hypocrite, funny I'm not the one trying to steal someone's blog identity. Gave up those games in 1st grade. Jackie could you check and see who is using my blog name, I'm sure you can locate it?

Those who wish to call me a hypocrite are fully entitled to do so, but I have divorced two women without having to end their lives.

Everyone says where is the evidence do you also say that in the other trial as well? Do you doubt the Police and IRS dont have written concrete proof of the crimes of tax evasion (four counts), Fraudulant Bank Loan (Yeah a bank is gonna throw itself out there with a possilbe counter suit and not have evidence of the crime), The missing 300k that is simply a matter of checking withdrawal slips and who's name they were in? Then the one that is most hidious of all in this scenario and that is the Church Officer having Child Pornography on his personal computer. I suppose the hard drive is wrong and Mr. Hawk is innocent there too? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:38 AM:

" To Lemoore Resident - who likes to talk talk and talk somemore. There will be time enough for fund raising when justice has been served. People of Hanford where the victim resided have come out and had candle light vigiles for her, a purple ribbon campaign went on for months. This was all done to and for Debbie to keep this violent act in the media so justice will be served. I too want Debbie found and closer for her family, but most of all I want whoever did this vile thing to her and allowed her children to walk in on the murder scene to pay with their own life. Which I am sure is the justice Debbie would seek if she could speak.
Often times the victim is the one that is forgotten because they can't speak for themselves, that is why Debbie Hawks true friends bound together to ensure that didn't happen in this case. They have become the silenced voice for her, which is what friends would do in a case as wrong and deplorable as this one. True justice will conclude with solving this crime. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:51 AM:

" To Lemoore Resident - someone obviously made this woman disappear off the face of this earth. Which in doing so cost the potential life of a vibrant, loving, caring parent to her children.

Add insult to injury the ex-husband spends 300K from her childrens educational fund, for whatever reason. Now tragedy has struck twice, because now the educational future of this woman's children has been seriously jeopardized. 300K would have given both of them an attempt at attending universities without fear of scholarship costs, dorm costs etc. Now that's all gone! Yet the exhusband has done absolutely nothing wrong in your eyes?

I have purposely left names off of this blog, now having done that, you having read this, is the exhusband still without guilt in your mind? Because if he is, then you need to have your moral compass calibrated. It is absolutely wrong to steal from your children, it is absolutely wrong to claim to be an Officer in a Church on Sunday and go to the bank on Monday and steal your children's future. If that doesn't change your mind about his character nothing will. "

History Buff wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:58 AM:

" The past is often prologue; comparing Dave Hawk's case with Scott Peterson's should give the Dave Hawk lynch mob pause; in the Dave Hawk case,
1. Where is the equal of the body, boat, anchor, and girlfriend that convicted Scott Peterson?
2. Did Dave Hawk leave town after his wife went missing?
3. Has Dave Hawk tried to change his appearance?
4. Evidence in Scott Peterson's case was out in short order; where is the Dave Hawk evidence? If you can control your emotions for a moment, recall that charges are not evidence. "

YOUR not sure I AM wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:28 AM:

" The last post by "not sure" is not from the original poster named "not sure". Saw that post with my name and wanted to clear that up. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:01 AM:

" To not sure -

I could readily and willingly answer the question you asked but I know I would be censored in the process and you would never here my response. So instead I'll just do a dance on the keys and you can fill in the blanks *&^%$#_)(*^%#@!.

Something those of us of faith have to cling to is whatever happened to Debbie, our God was watching and saw who did it and what they did. God also knows the reason for it happening and my hunch is somehow we will soon find out as well. Afterall God works in misterious ways, as well we know.

The thought that continues to enter my mind is the same as yours. What must those children have thought when they entered that home and saw what was left for them to see? Scared for life and the incredible thing is they can't erase that picture from their minds from now through eternity.

Scott at least made an attempt to clean up the blood evidence so Lacy's mom didn't have to witness that horific scene in her mind. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:10 AM:

" To not sure an interesting tidbit you might be interested in.

Recently, at my brother's church the Pastor was removed for not performing his duties in the best interest of the Church. This was accomplished by a vote of the parishoners. So removing the leader of a fellowship is possible and quite available to the parishoners of any Church that feels the leader is confused in his loyalties to them, teachings or God

The other option is also to find fellowship in a like Church within driving distance and leaving the leader to his own devices. In fact many new Churches have been started through this process.

Just some alternatives I will throw out there for those of you who may be seeking alternatives to being associated with a misguided leader in your Church.

Preachers, Pastors and Reverends are appointed they do not have tenure nor do they have the final say in matters concerning your image and what you truly believe in your hearts and souls. There removal is readliy available through letter writing campaigns to the leading authority over all the like Churches. Good Luck in your efforts. "

To not sure wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:55 AM:

" I thought God is supposed to be all knowing...Dave won't have to answer any "questions". Just like God knows about the hunger, wars, child abuse, etc that goes on every second in this world. "

America wrote on Jun 8, 2008 12:54 PM:

" Innocent until proven guilty, where is the body? Why do they always blame the ex? I'm sure she could know other people who may have seedy backgrounds. Maybe the trust fund was spent to support the children during this difficult time. Speaking of the children who are now probably in foster care or living with some relative some where. Don't know Mr. Hawk, never met him. If they have some real proof and the body then arrest him. Until then we still live in the Good Old USA and the rule of law still applies Innocent Until Proven Guilty. "

Lemoore resident wrote on Jun 8, 2008 4:26 PM:

" To watchdog Fred,
I want to apoligize for saying what I did about getting a life. Standing up and speaking out for what you believe in is a trait that I really do respect. Especially when you're speaking out for someone who doesn't have the voice to do it themselves. I am still not willing to say that "he did it". The money issue I am not aware of all the details of it but was he found guilty?????? There is no way he used that money to raise his kids like someone else suggested. That much money was used for something else, like living beyond your means. I didn't spend 300,000 on my kids in the last 2 years and my kids have alot. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:26 PM:

" To History Buff - no he has not gone to trial yet for anything, his lawyer has seen to that through continuance after continuance after continuance. Another similarity to our friend from Modesto.

The evidence has not been presented in court so any of it that may be known cannot be talked about in an ongoing case.

My previous question if the evidence doesn't exist then why is the D.A.'s Office proceeding with the charges that are hardest to prove? Murder In the First Degree, not second degree, not manslaughter, but the hardest case in the world to prove, First Degree Murder. I hardly think the ADA in charge of this case is eating stupid for breakfast, lunch or dinner?
As for leaving, Scott didn't have his Mom and Dad living on the same property.
As for evidence do you think the bank that has the Hawks account is going to jeopardize that business by bringing false charges of fraud against him?
Do you think the IRS is making up the four counts of Tax Evasion?
Is the 300k really not missing?
Ignorance is bliss but it doesn't make for a good defense. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:38 PM:

" Jackie;
All I did was to respond to History Buff's questions, I am not holding court on the web site. I am just asking some hard questions while answering some.
If they can be asked then I think we should oblige him with the answers. Nothing I've said hasn't appeared on the news or in print in the Hanford Sentinel.

The similarities in this case and the one in Modesto were not dreamed up by bloggers they happened in plain sight of everyone and I can't help the fact it looks like a copy cat to some degree.

There are all kinds of possibilities for getting rid of a body; the California Aquaduct being one of them? What's chances of that being drained and checked, slim and none. Not to mention all the rivers and streams that were full at the time of the disappearance. So History Buff don't ever say never, anything is possible. Whoever commited this haneous crime planned it very well before hand. But there is no such thing as the perfect crime, somewhere somehow it gets found out. Computer hard disk don't lie & don't erase. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:45 PM:

" To Mr. Truth, thanks for the compliment, I try and say what's in my heart as well as what is on my mind. Always have and always will, it's just me.
I've read some of your blogs and have found them interesting and entertaining as well. "

Gods Will wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:36 AM:

" WHO ARE WE? LET THIS PERSON WHO EVER DID THIS TO DEBBIE PAY HIS PRICE AFTER THEIR TIME HERE ON THIS EARTH! WHO EVER DID THIS.... IS LIVING A LIE, A MISERABLE LIFE IN HIDING AND WONDERING WHEN. WHEN OR IF THEY WILL EVER BE PUNISHED IN THIS LIFE...WE HAVE TO LET GO AND LET GODS WILL TAKE CARE OF IT...WHO ARE WE TO PASS JUDGMENT? "THY SHALL NOT PASS JUDGMENT FOR I WILL PASS JUDGMENT ON YOU."...... "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 9, 2008 10:39 AM:

" To Lemoore Resident - your apology is accepted. I do become emotionally involved in something that I find so haneous as this crime and the damage walking into that scene has done to their children. Pardon the pun but the Watchdog sides on the less fortunate dogs side of things more often than not. I am for the puppies of the world (more commonly known as underdogs) that the bullies think they can push around and destroy without consequence. The best way I have found with dealing with a bully is to meet him head on and don't half step or walk backwards. This bicycle doesn't back peddle when it comes to dealing with people who don't value life and it's importance as a precious commodity. Life is too short on this planet without the bullies of the world ending it earlier than intended by their own hand. I won't even get into the religous hypocricacies the accused murderer has participated in, and the message he has sent to the parishoners regarding a husband and what their duties are not to mention that of a father. Candles are for snuffing, not people. "

Dear Gods Will wrote on Jun 9, 2008 1:49 PM:

" Stop yelling please. Try hitting your caps lock botton so you can use lower case letters. It's much more affective. God's will may take care of all the horrific charges in the afterlife. However, I'd like to see the gifts and talents that God has granted in the form of our local law enforcement and DA's office be done as well. I surely don't want criminals running around commiting further crimes. Peace be with you. I honestly hope that no one else becomes a victim like Ms. Hawk. Unfortunately, Kings County has a very high percentage of domestic violence. "

ToGods will wrote on Jun 9, 2008 1:57 PM:

" "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's” Anyone can make the scripture say what they desire. Application is the Key. I am not judging, but the fact remains, if the Law Enforcement Agency’s have had time to go slowly through the evidence, and they believe they have enough evidence, so be it. This is a case where Caesar wants justice, and I stand behind him… "

Gods Will wrote on Jun 9, 2008 2:57 PM:

" I PRAY FOR THE PERSON BEHIND CEASAR, AND FOR ALL WHO'S LIVES HAVE BEEN CHANGED BY THIS. LETS NOT JUDGE PLEASE.. IM NOT YELLING

I JUST CANT SEE VERY WELL....

IM VERY VERY SORRY IF YOU THINK IM YELLING... IM NOT.. AND I DO THINK WE ALL HAVE TALENTS.. BUT PLEASE, JUST AS THE PERSON WHO PASSED JUDGEMENT ON MY TYPING THAT I WAS YELLING.. LETS NOT JUDGE.. PEACE BE WITH US ALL... AND PEACE BE WITH THE PERSON WHO THOUGHT I WAS YELLING..I WILL GO IN PEACE NOW.
GOD BLESS ALL! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:54 PM:

" We the session, that revolves over and over again in my mind out on my tongue, back into my mouth and back into my mind. I must think the session had to take a vote before this letter was prepared? That is how it would have been done in my church. So this type of business would have to have had a unanimous vote. I find that impossible to believe when you have several indivicual minds wrapping around the same subject and expect the exact same outcome. I can't believe that one man in that session didn't have the huevos to question the unquestioned response to support a fellow colleaque knowing full well the support is up to and including the statement no matter what happens? I have asked the Reverend for clarification and haven't received a single response to my request, I don't know what elae I personally can do to get the hard answers responded to by him? I guess the plan for support only went so far as writing that letter. Certainly there would be an outcry from the Church if they disagreed? "

Billy Buck wrote on Jun 10, 2008 6:14 AM:

" Was this statement approved by a vote of the entire congregation at a noticed meeting or is this just a top down pronouncement? "

shannon wrote on Jun 10, 2008 2:25 PM:

" Are you kidding me? You are a cult not a church or you would not be condoning anything this murderer/child pornographer has done. You want us to pray for his kids, I think we already do....everyone around here has been effected by this and the only ones we need to pray for are those poor kids. "

shannon wrote on Jun 10, 2008 2:30 PM:

" So you officers and Reverend back your parishoner, just hope you don't mind the friends of Debbie Hawk take a little higher road to justice. One that pursues the guilty party at all costs without reservation should he be a cloak and dagger member of anything or anybody. "

We the Public stand behind the victim Debbie Hawk and pray daily for the just verdict to come of this horrible uneccessary taking of her life from her loving children. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 10, 2008 2:59 PM:

" To Billy Buck good luck getting any answers from Reverend Sandy Brown or the Officers of his church. They have been silent ever since this announcement appeared in the paper.
They accomplished an attempt to raise the ire of the public and try and make a case for a change of venue.
Why he can be found guilty just as well right here as anywhere else? People in any venue will see his anger, his bullying even a staff writer of the Sentinel, his disdain for law enforcement, his lack of responsibility to his children, his past violent behavior with anyone he came in contact with and exhibited that attitude with in his however many years of his life. The general populous of the city of Lemoore didn't like him before all this happened. Changing the location of a trial does not always change the opinion that follows it. I think we should request seating and car pool to whereever it is held and watch the outcome ourselves. Just all the friends of Debbie showing up to support her when no one else will. My SUV will hold eight, that's a good start. "

JRC wrote on Jun 10, 2008 9:04 PM:

" Let's not forget the principles upon which our country was founded. He is innocent until proven guilty. I don't know him nor do I know his family. In my mind I keep thinking about him dropping the childen off and them finding the house as it has been described. I cannot fathom any father so cold as to put his children through that. This is one thought that might lead me to hope he is innocent. "

Child Advocate wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:01 PM:

" This story that the Sentinel chose to run really got the people motivated, but I must say that David Hawk shouldn't be the focus. It should be Debbie and her children. Instead of bickering amongst yourselves, take a second to remember Debbie and stop. She wouldn't want this to be her children's legacy. Do I think Mr. Hawk did this horrible thing? Only a jury can decide, but I have my opinions (i will keep to myself). Think about this as you argue your opinions, what about Debbie? What about her children? Make them the important issue, Mr. Hawk doesn't deserve this focus, they do. I wish peace and love for the Hawk Children and they should know that their mom is always with them. May God Bless You All And Bring Peace In Your Hearts. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 11, 2008 11:40 AM:

" To JRC, I have that same difficulty then I am reminded of Psychology courses I had and the deffinition of a Psychopath and I answer my own question.

To Child Advocate, when I make my comments and thoughts available to the public it is Debbie and her children I am thinking of. I think of innocent children who have been subjected to so much at such a young age they should not have to contend with providing the fight to keep the prosecution, conviction and conclusion to their mothers murder. The public should accept that task and I feel we have in our comments and conclusions regarding this incident. We however, are not the responsible party for providing the behavior, criminal acts and history of violence. That rests clearly on one persons shoulders and therefore is has and always will be the focus of this invetigation. Afterall, common sense didn't die with Debbie it just gets confused from time to time. I fear should this case drop from publicity and from responses of caring people a true unjustice will come to Debbie and her children and that is; no justice at all. "

Tim H wrote on Jun 11, 2008 11:53 AM:

" Boy talk about lack of awareness. I'm sure the church the btk killer went to said the same thing about him. Wake up. "

Family Friend wrote on Jun 12, 2008 11:18 AM:

" To Watchdog Fred:
There are 3 Hawk children, not 2. Justice will be served and the truth will out. But it is the three children, Debbie's parents, sister and Debbie who should never get lost in all of this. Their strength in the face of this tragedy that is today 2 years old amazes me! I am honored to know them and my support and prayers are for them and them alone. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 12, 2008 2:01 PM:

" To all those who still stand beside Dave Hawk, I am sure there are some cells empty by him. Call Sheriff Jordan, I'm sure he would be happy to oblige you with all that new jail money he has to spend on new and more cells. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 12, 2008 6:33 PM:

" I apologize I had only ever heard two children and her mother and father. I feel the same the prayers should be for them, but I also of the mindset that justice should be as well in order for Debbie to rest in peace. I am sure she would not want the one she fought first to win in the end.
I never claimed a personal bond to Debbie just one that seeks out jusctice for her and all her children. So that explains $300k to me, thank you. "

To the Chihuahua Watchdog wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:05 AM:

" If someone disagrees with you and has their own opinion, you want to send them to jail...nice. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:08 AM:

" To to Chihuahua Watchdog - Attention Bobble Head; I love people with no sense of imagination and can't even think of a good moniker to use without incorporating mine.
I was just extending a method for all the Dave Hawk supporters to stand by their man. You mean they wouldn't stand by him in a cell, why not? The good Reverend said; "no matter what happens". I guess Tammy Wynette had it all wrong. "

To the Chihuahua Watchdog wrote on Jun 13, 2008 6:39 PM:

" The use of the "moniker" is so that you know it is for you. The chihuahua stands for all the unnecessary chatter that you bring to the comment section. I think Taco Bell made a Chihuahua Bobble-Head maybe you should go get one!!! The people are standing by him because he is innocent until proven guilty of murder, you seem to delight in being the judge, jury and executioner. I feel horrible for the children and Debbie Hawk, but we need to let justice take it's course. In regards to all the other allegations including money theft, to my knowledge he hasn't been proven guilty on those counts either. My point made in less then 120 words. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 13, 2008 10:31 PM:

" To to Chihuahua Watchdog - your comments are small because they make little if any sense. Call me what you like at least it isn't thief, embezzler, pedophile or murderer. Now who is innocent until proven guilty Chihuahua. I'm not into bobble heads I like the styrofoam one's you can run your antenna through their heads, it sends a better message. But I'll take a t-shirt if you have one handy working behind the counter there at Taco Bell. Your answer in less than 106 words. I heard your getting a raise in January what $8,50 an hour. "

To the Chihuahua wrote on Jun 14, 2008 11:14 AM:

" Impressive that you could actually write something under 200 words...it was actually enjoyable to read instead of falling asleep or ignoring 95% of your comments. Very sad though that you need to put fast food workers down. I have never worked a day behind a fast food counter (so stick to the facts) but have worked a few retail jobs, so I have a huge appreciation for what they have to put up with. Is your life so dismal that you sit hours at your computer trying to put other people down to make yourself feel better? "

David Daniel wrote on Jun 15, 2008 10:56 AM:

" You are probably the same people who stood behind the idea that the Federal Government and Janet Reno was correct in their response to the Branch Dividans in Waco Texas huh. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 15, 2008 11:35 AM:

" To to Chihuahua - I'm not putting anyone down that works for a living. But you go back and read your blog to me and you will find you were the tirst to bring up Taco Bell, not me.
I've worked retail, wholesale throughout my entire life. I've managed three businesses owned one business and had a very successful career. There is nothing wrong with any form of sales. However it is sad that they started telling cashiers how much change to return from a purchase. Because most of them can't provide the change without that information. But I don't blame the cashiers for that, I blame the fast food industry and their math teachers for not teaching it. We never should have moved away from the three R's. "

To to Chihuahua wrote on Jun 16, 2008 2:03 PM:

" I told you to go purchase the Chihuahua bobble-head from Taco Bell thus creating business for them. You in turn then stated since I worked behind the front counter (wrong) to get you a t-shirt and you also stated that I am about to get a raise to $8.50...a pretty obvious put down, especially in this trying time, it is amazing that anyone can live on minimum wage. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 17, 2008 12:09 AM:

" To to Chihuahua Dog, you obviously are walking around with a chip on your shoulder. I also agree I don't know how anyone on minimum wage can make ends meet either. But then my first full time job at 16 paid $2.10 per hour and the minimum at the time was $1.75 so I did pretty well with what I made. Enough to buy my first car, pay for all my own clothes and set a little aside for emergencies. But then gasoline was 29.9 cents a gallon back then too and the corvair I drove got 25 miles to the gallon.
But I think you and I just need to agree to disagree because your morals and ethics do not coincide with the one's I was raised with like many of the liberals on this blogging system. Many of whom grew up in what I like to call the ME generation, as long as it is about ME they are in favor once it becomes for someone else, they run the other way as fast as they can. Well one day they will learn running only prolongs the agony of reality setting in. "

To the Chihuahua wrote on Jun 17, 2008 1:30 PM:

" There you go again, trying to guess who and what I do. I believe moderate is the term that you are looking for. I usually try to think before I speak and avoid knee-jerk responses.
My biggest fear is government running our lives and taking away our freedoms that we are accustomed to, i.e. freedom of the press.
You have already convicted Dave Hawk and appear that you won't be happy until he is behind bars. Thank goodness we have juries that will hopefully approach the case a little bit more level-headed then you would. If he is convicted, I hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars or receives the death penalty. The kids have already received a life sentence not knowing what happened to their Mom.
I am part of that "ME" generation and I have volunteered years of my life and other resources to the community. If you call that having a chip on my shoulder so be it. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 18, 2008 5:49 PM:

" To to the Chihuahua Dog - once again you swing and miss. You are part of the ME generation because your pesonal interest and your personal welfare come before all others. With you it would be you first women and children second in an abandonship scenario. You don't care who's bacon is in the fire in Iraq and Afghanistan as long as it isn't yours. You are o.k. with others serving your commitments for service to their country. You'll stay back and volunteer at the day care and build future little warriors so your children won't have to go off to war either. You'll make that awful decision at one point in your life gee is it marriage or sex drugs and rock and roll. I have an idea which you'll choose like another blogger on here whose wife probably crawls in bed with up to 150 other people on a given night, due to his previous choices in life. Then has the audacity to slam my character. Secondly, you don't know the first thing about me or who I am other than someone who doesn't agree with you. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 18, 2008 5:55 PM:

" To to the Chihuahua Dog - as for the suspected individual in this write up and story, I am not the only one who suspects the authorities have the right man charged with the right crime. Before you go on on your little tangent ranting and raving about me finding him guilty. I invite you to observe the evidence just printed in type and tell me he isn't the most viable suspect to date.
He has been charged with bank fraud in obtaining a fraudulant loan from his bank. Do you honestly think the bank manager is wanting to make that accusation and risk losing all the Hawk's accounts, which I am sure are several. In addition to four (4) counts of tax evasion a Federal crime. Embezzling $300,000.00 from his own children's educational funds. Geesh you're right this is some standup citizen who has been picked out of the crowd to be punished for some reason. He even brought a note from the good Reverend. I haven't even mentioned the most haneous of his crimes and he is already looking like he is good for twenty or thirty years to me. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 18, 2008 6:01 PM:

" To to the Chihuahua Dog - you don't have to have a body for all the initial crimes he is charged with and they could buy him some serious time when found guilty. Then with that money missing his house being foreclosed upon where did the money go? Did it pay someone off, or is it socked away for a good getaway to a foreign country somwhere? Either way he is a flight risk, I don't know looks like to me he has a lot of explaining to do at the very least. If you are willing to set back and watch him tip toe his way through this network of lies more power to you. But ask yourself one thing, what kind of animal allows his children to view the bloody scene from where their mother was taken away never to be seen again? That is a biggy and for that one he won't be answering to a Superior Court Judge for that one he will be answering to God. He wants to bring God into it with a glaring character reference, well let's bring God into full view. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 18, 2008 6:08 PM:

" To to the Chihuahua Dog - like the body the $300k is missing , follow the money and you'll find the crime. If you think I am being hasty what about the animal that took Debbie away from her children, family, job and society as a whole? At least the accused gets a fair trial what did the victim get, dead. This smacks so much of that Modesto case it isn't even funny. What is even sadder though is he couldn't be happy with divorce he had to take it all away just like some spoiled little rich kid would in a game he no longer wanted to play. What does anyone say to her children, you don't make this situation any better, you just get those kids and their mom justice and that is my goal. Do you honestly want to send an already guilty thief free? No he hasn't been to trial on that case but there has been enough evidence brought forth to prove it, including video of the bank scenarios, what's he gonna do say do you believe your liar eyes or are you gonna believe me? "

To the Chihuahua wrote on Jul 4, 2008 1:19 PM:

" Once again...you think by writing 1000 words you are going to bully everyone around here. You are a typical chihuahua that has to bark 1000 times before someone looks your way and you "try" to attempt character defamation to distract from the actual story. Well back to the 4th of July celebration that you had nothing to do with and thankful that you are not a judge or someone else of influence with your one-sided judge, jury, executioner thinking. "

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