NONE wrote on Jun 25, 2008 1:55 PM:
" AS A TAX PREPARER THE IRS DOES REQUIRE RECEIPTS. AS A TAX PREPARER I ASK FOR THE RECEIPTS IF YOUR GOIJNG TO USE THEM ON YOUR TAX RETURNS.. BY THE WAY IF THE COUNTY IS PAYING FOR YOUR MEAL I STILL THINK THEY SHOULD GET RECEIPTS ANYWAY TO KEEP RECORDS OF THEM, FOR THE COUNTY USE. "
CostvsBenefit wrote on Jun 25, 2008 1:56 PM:
" Any time you look at a reimbursable expense, a receipt is a nice thing to have. However, the big ticket items already have to have receipts. What benefit do you gain by having meal receipts accountable?
Though in principle it is a benefit to taxpayers. Really, the cost of accounting for meals will most likely offset any gain. Net, we have just increased someone's work time spent looking at what someone ate when they went to training in Sacramento.
I'm not sure we are going to benefit from micro-management. "
Crazy wrote on Jun 25, 2008 2:29 PM:
" It is crazy NOT to ask for receipts. As a former Government employee, I know how the system is abused by employees. They take a lunch, skip a meal, then pocket the money they get. Or get a business associate to pcik up the tab and then get the money pocketed again. I have tried to turn down per diem and was told that the contract said I was entitled to it and that I have to take it. CRAZY. Alene Taylor should not be re-elected if she thinks that employees don't have to be accountable. She is just trying to get votes. With a $70, 000 salary and a farmer husband, she isn't hurting for money. The taxes we pay should not be misused. "
How About wrote on Jun 25, 2008 2:31 PM:
" Why not just issue all County Employees a credit card to charge there meal expenses on??? You/BOS's can then calculate it from there. Then the county employee would only have to remember to stay under the dollar amount in question... "
Obamas Mama wrote on Jun 25, 2008 2:56 PM:
" The per day rate for meals makes better sense here. While receipts certainly have a place for some items, the additional paperwork and processing costs for that paperwork need to be considered. This is silly, it seems to me that Supervisor Tony Oliveira just wants to be seen as doing something at a time when budgets are tight. "
Doris wrote on Jun 25, 2008 3:14 PM:
" What most people don't seem to understand is that depending on the area a person may be in, it could be more costly than the per diem. Also, figure how many claims come in and how much time each claim will take to verify the receipts to the requested reimbursement amount. As a tax payer I for one don't see why you would require receipts. Maybe you should take a look at all the travel as a whole. Cut the travel down and really save some money. That is a high dollar line item if the county is spending $640,000.00 per year. "
just wondering wrote on Jun 25, 2008 3:43 PM:
" every job I have ever had has always required receipts-and certain items (alcohol) were not covered. whenever we were told you can spend x dollars per meal and didn't ask for receipts, a lot of people skipped a lot of meals and kept the money vs the other guy that drank his dinner and the company paid for it. I agree with the idea of issuing credit cards and then the receipts would only be coming in once a month. if it was any other employer in the private sector, that's his business, but this is taxpayer money that's paying this bill. There are a lot of us that can't afford to go out to dinner and spend $23, so why should county employees be able to? "
ALEJANDRO wrote on Jun 25, 2008 3:52 PM:
" Great idea, county-issued credit cards.
Why don't we ask the Hanford Visitors Agency how to best go about it? "
KC Chic wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:21 PM:
" Doris, I agree with you. the County staff needs to cut back on travel expenses. Do they really need to attend that conference in Las Vegas or Florida? Just look at the County agenda and someone is always asking permission to go somewhere and as far as I can tell none of them get denied.
What do Peggy and Chris want to hide?!?!?! If staff is already saving their hotel receipts then just stuff that meal receipt in your wallet like we all do and bring back. Easy as that! There is nothing cmplicated about that, PLEASE!!!! How dumb they think we are? "
A Tax Payer wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:25 PM:
" I don't know of many businesses that would give employees "$8 for breakfast, $12 for lunch and $23 for dinner" while they travel. I would also like to see actual spending as it will be much less than per diem. I also take issue with Mr. Nikoghosian saying that "even a taxpayer can see that". A tax payer should be charged actual dollars, not per diems. "
Voice of Experience wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:31 PM:
" I have seen MANY employees accept the per diem, while meals were provided at conferences or they choose to skip meals etc. Paperwork has to be completed no matter what, so I agree with the request for receipts. The BOS should look into the reasoning more than 1 or 2 people need to attend the same conference or meeting. Unless required for training a conference could be attended by 1 person who can come back and give their department updates. So many meetings are just a social gathering. Everyone including Department Heads knows this is a fact. Cut costs by cutting out unnecessary meetings. "
Alan G. wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:37 PM:
" Ever try getting by on $40-$50 per diem in Manhattan or Italy? I can say from experience that the employer definitely gets the better end of the deal. "
ReceiptFinder wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:41 PM:
" $43.00 dollars a day for someone to go to training, be away from their families and interrupt their daily lives. All these activities are meant to improve the employee and make their work more reliable, accurate and cost effective. Over the course of a year if you think requiring a receipt for every meal is going to improve the County budget, then support it. To me it's a waste of tax payer time, after all, how long does it take to collect receipts for meals that the employee didn't even eat. "
The real money drain... wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:42 PM:
" I hope the BOS reads this column. The Grand Jury would probably be better. There is so many trips that could be cut from office expenses. I worked for the County and know first hand that Department Heads and their employees looked forward to annual meetings, because of the fun they had. Open bars, barbecues, etc. Departments will say its good for moral. At a time when money is such an issue, eliminating jobs would really bring down office moral. Does the county want to save money on travel?? Save big money on useless meetings. "
taxpayer wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:55 PM:
" As a Kings County taxpayer, I say that they should turn in their receipts. All of our money needs to be accounted for. That's my vote! And, yes I am registered and I do vote. "
Retired Secretary wrote on Jun 25, 2008 5:22 PM:
" A Tax Payer wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:25 PM:
" I don't know of many businesses that would give employees "$8 for breakfast, $12 for lunch and $23 for dinner" while they travel. I would also like to see actual spending as it will be much less than per diem
Don't be too sure. Let's take a look at breakfast,
Meal $5.35
Coffee 1.50
Tax .51
Tip 1.00
Total 8.36
I think some might perceive these amounts to be high but remember they include beverage, tax, tip and these trainings are often held in urban areas with higher meal prices. In case you have not been there lately $12.00 for lunch in Sacramento or San Jose does not buy you much when you consider beverage, tax and tip. Another point, some have stated that the county would save money ...maybe. If an auditor spends an extra hour per week reviewing these receipts and each employee spends an extra 15 minutes filling out forms are the potential savings greater than the increased overhead due to productivity lost? "
To Retired Secretary wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:46 PM:
" As stated in other posts....mosts meetings provide at least a continental breakfast..snack...and most times lunch. And I lived in Sac and you can find good meals for a good price...are these employees too spoiled to eat at Denny's etc.? Save receipts is my vote. "
Co again wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:05 PM:
" this sounds like a joke. All the county wants to do is give job security to another county employee...count those receipts . Will the county pay for actual since most employees pick that up..no; so lets pay more over all to save that buck!!!
Since according to Olivera we have unethical employees!! "
Sooooo wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:41 PM:
" If 5 employees eat dinner together during training the bill is almost always combined. So that means 1 employee gets to turn the receipt in while the other 4 get shafted by penny pinchers. Well there are always people eating who don't need their receipts maybe they could borrow theirs. I'll start saving meal receipts now and sell them on ebay, lol. "
ceejay wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:20 PM:
" I am in favor of the per diem rate. I say give the employee a check to cover meals approved on the travel request and be done with it. Many areas of the state have a much higher rate for meals than the per diem allows anyway, So no matter if an employee drinks his meals or enjoys high end meals or eats at the 99cent store, in the end the net would still be the same. On average the county neither wins or loses. If an accounts payable employee spends an extra 20 minutes tracking down every meal receipt from every employee that travels and then has to reconcile it to a travel request, that is time wasted, daily. As for continental breakfasts, they can vary greatly. A diabetic may not be able to wait until the "conference continental" breakfast is available, what do they do? As for more than two employees going to the same training, that is always evaluated for need and ability for one to come back and train others. "
Coffee wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:20 PM:
" Why should we pay $1.50 for an employee to feed his caffeine addiction? Drink water. Pay for your own addictions. Breakfast at McDonalds can be had for $3. Lots of hotels offer complimentary breakfast. This isn't County staff because they are not open enough to post their expenses, but the City did. And the person for the City went to San Diego and Santa Barbara and spent over a $1000 for ONE employee for training and etc. Who says abuse does not happen? It should be stopped. Driving around in government cars, not working, while the tax payers are footing $4.50 a gallon gas for them to ride around together. Watch as you go around town, how many government cars of employees you see. And if you are out of town, how often do you go in to a restaurant and see a large group of people having a meal, drinks, with their government cars in the parking lot? Our employees probably do it when they go to "conferences". Try to get them on the phone, though, if you need a service that taxes pay for. They can't help you they're understaffed. "
rebecca Patterson-Kmet Retired Pharmacist wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:38 PM:
" The employees should haggle about travel expenses. I didn't when I worked relief for Walmart in Arizona. The Pharmacists from Phoenix were paid per diem and mileage when they worked in Show Low. I was not because I was too nice to ask, even though the travel time was twice as far from Tucson. If you don't complain, you don't get paid for the hotel or gas or meals. You have to squawk or the company walks all over you. "
Rebecca Patterson-Kmet Retired Pharmacist wrote on Jun 25, 2008 9:16 PM:
" The problem with giving government employees credit cards is that abuse of the privilege is the hallmark of federal employees who use credit cards, if the Government Accounting Office (GAO) investigations are to be believed. "
NMB wrote on Jun 25, 2008 9:30 PM:
" I'm sure meal allowances are claimed at the maximum and not the actual. These overages over the years would likely finance a replacement vehicle. This system of accountability needs to be tightened up. State employees are required to provide receipts for meals, so why should County employees be exempt? Knowing that some departments are fiscally conservative and others more casual about their accounts is wrong. "
County has no clue wrote on Jun 25, 2008 9:45 PM:
" Don't cut back on the line employees and their training to save a buck. You will lose in the long run. How much does it cost for Spikes to fly to DC? Cut those trips...This receipt stuff is just a distraction from all of the cutting of positions. County wants to look like they are cutting equally across the board. They are not!! It cost more to calculate, track and verify receipts. Just give the per diem and who cars what they do with it. You can't control if they spent it all on ice cream or a real lunch. What a joke! ANyone can get a waitress to give a receipt or find one on the ground for that matter...nobody is controlling anything. Per diem is the most efficient way to go and is fair because there is adjustments built in for different parts of the state/economies. The public should be asking how many public safety employees are being cut...not how many pennies can we save on training. No, I'm not a deputy. What is the BOS, Spikes etc. cutting back on? "
rj wrote on Jun 25, 2008 10:26 PM:
" As retired secretary stated, I don't think that most of you realize that the dollar amount covered has to include the drink and tip also. I work for the city and go to a couple trainings a year and it has probably been over two years since I was at one that even had any fruit offered in the morning and after almost 30 years of government work have yet to go to one that offered a lunch. I usually end up spending at least three to five dollars a day of my money to at least leave a tip since the money provided by the city doesn't always cover it all. Also if you plan on buying any water or sodas, snacks etc to have in the hotel room you will not be reimbursed for that either since it wasn't included in the meal. Per diem is much easier and less hassel for those involved. The city of hanford will not even reimburse you unless the receipt is detailed and lists every item individually. If you go to a restaurant and they give you the tab at the bottom of their reciept book you are not reimbursed. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 25, 2008 10:26 PM:
" I don't care if you are talking about private industry or public service they both contain game players. I've heard people from both sectors talk about how inconvenient their travel was and in the next breath brag about the shopping spree they went on in the mall like we don't have in Hanford. Of course they have to complain in front of their spouses and act like it wasn't an enjoyable time a part but then the rest of us know when a training seminar is posted they are the first to sign up and want to go. Which is fine I am not against training and seminars and I do know for a fact that meals are served many times but what about the times they are not and what about the other 23 hours of the day when no meal is supplied? I think receipts would ensure accountability and honesty so for that reason I vote for receipts. Other than that it is no one's business what someone is eating/not eating while away from work. Do you stick your nose in their sack lunch each day when they aren't traveling? "
Per Diem wrote on Jun 25, 2008 10:34 PM:
" Hey Alan G. , You are so right. Sending employees to San Diego-trying having a dinner for under the limit there. I say they can't have it both ways.
The credit card-most employees who are employed by the Sheriff;s Office who might find themselves traveling unexpectedly, have a credit card. Why waste time discussing this again? The BOS will do what they want anyway. "
The Oracle Says... wrote on Jun 26, 2008 1:19 AM:
" ...Hey lets go back to the 80's way of doing things....Thats what it feels like. Receipts for everything, AND lets cut public safety budgets. DO welfare queens have to provide receipts for what they spend of their checks every month...NO, of course not. The county FINALLY went the way of everyone else in the world, and gave you a set amount of money to live on per day (Per Diem). You budgeted it or you didnt, but thats all you got. No making up receipts that you forgot to get, etc..It just made liars out of everyone, just to get your money back. This is NOT about accountability, etc...Nobody is getting over on the taxpayer. Your given a set amount of money, and you live on it at school, etc.. The bigger question is WHY are the BOS even discussing this in the realm of public safety cuts? Where are the hard questions of why are you funding welfare TOTALLY, and cutting public safety????? Get your priorities straight BOS...and the public...We demand the answers as taxpayers who wish emergency services to show up when called "
Jasper wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:09 AM:
" It's interesting to hear the public's view of county workers. They are mandated to attend most conferences. It's part of training or continuing education. They don't have a choice. I'm amazed people think county workers travel because it's "fun". It's called WORK. Their jobs keep them away from family. Spending time away from home with a bunch of people they work with doesn't sound like fun to me. They ride in the same car with co-workers to maximize budget dollars. Being away from home is stressful to workers & family. When working away from home, they try to maintain a relationship with loved ones and stay within their department budget. If conferences offer meals, the county will not pay the employee the per diem rate. They eat what's served or pay out-of-pocket. It's an honor to be a public servant but MY 5pm to 8am belongs to ME. County employees make sacrifices to better serve the public. Per diem rates simplify the process that makes them better public servants. Keeping track of receipts = less time working. Filling out receipt forms after a trip will be done on county time. So what is the benefit of receipts? "
Scarecrow wrote on Jun 26, 2008 5:43 AM:
" Just look at it my way I'm paying you to eat u better be showing my some form of receipt. Do people have really nothing better to do than argue how unfair It is not to have a receipt. Do you have something to hide? I think they are giving you more than enough to eat on I would be happy if I were given that much money. Always remember there are people out there that don't have the luxury. "
The Oracle Says... wrote on Jun 26, 2008 12:17 PM:
" ..You know, its these same comments from people who have no clue what sacrifices public servants make, that make me soooo glad that Im done with it. You want to quibble about my per diem while im away from my family for sometimes 1-2 weeks at a time? Like we get rich on per diem...Woo hoo...This has EXACTLY nothing to do with accountability. You get a fixed amount to live on as decided by BOS. If it was hundreds or thousands of dollars that was to be returned, OK, got it...But its not....The money gets spent, because it costs that much to live away from home. This smacks of the "bad 'ol days" of the BOS cutting public safety, then buying the naked bugle blower statue that sits in front of personnel now. You want accountability, how about first asking BOS to reveal their expense account records, and FULL compensation packages, what counties/judges salaries they are tied too, and vehicle expense records. Then, with full disclosure, lets proceed. After all, you lead by example....riiight? "
I wonder... wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:23 PM:
" The county welfare to work department reimburses mileage to clientele who are known to be driving without valid driver's licenses! Take about a huge waste of money while supporting an illegal activity!!! Wonder if the BOS is aware??? "
OMG wrote on Jun 26, 2008 4:41 PM:
" Honestly, when I travel I eat fast food take out and go back to the hotel. Huge savings............NO TIPPING!
I would think the county should be trying to live as economically as the average taxpayer. (yes, I am registered and vote too!) "
ALEJANDRO wrote on Jun 26, 2008 5:16 PM:
" Good God!
This makes me wonder what the school district did to reimburse those chosen many over the years to go to New York to get educated and innovated.
How did they do it? Receipts required? How much was their per diems? Bar tabs included? Boat trips around Manhattan Island too? "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:59 PM:
" To Alan G.
What does Manhattan have in common with Kings County and furthermore if we are sending employees to Italy for training their meals are not the root of this problem either.
Sacramento, San Franciso, San Diego all have McDonalds, Taco Bell, Buffets, Burger Kings, Wendy's, I'm sure you can eat at one of those almost as cheaply if not more so than here in Hanford. As you stated you are working, when working you don't expect five course meals at a five star restuarant. As for separation other government employees are separated in a war zone for six months to a year quit griping for crying outloud. They don't collect $43 per day per diem while they are gone. If you want to call the free chow they get food go ahead but I can tell you've never eaten it. Do you think your Chief Financial Officer is receiving gourmet foods for lunch and dinner while serving in Iraq? Come on common sense people. "
Some people wrote on Jun 26, 2008 9:40 PM:
" will complain that they don't get good service and they complain about the quality of the people who work at the County and then they complain when the County TREATS THEM WITH A LITTLE RESPECT (as other Counties treat their employees) in hopes of attracting and retaining qualified staff. You can't have it both ways but you can sure complain about it both ways.... "
Paper pusher wrote on Jun 26, 2008 10:52 PM:
" Hey Watchdog Fred why don't we just give these ungrateful county employees water and surplus MRE's to take with them on their training. I hear FEMA has a warehouse full of them in the New Orleans area, think of all the money the county could save!
Receipts mean additional paperwork and paperwork then becomes a public record. These receipts then must be verified and stored as part of an official record for at least two years (see California Government Code 26202). What this really means is lots of paper work and administrative overhead that quickly chews up any potential savings on food costs.
You can streamline government or you can make it more bureaucratic and cumbersome that is the real choice hear. I say keep the overhead low and improve efficiency by not adding any additional paperwork to governmental operations, especially when the possibility of any net savings are unlikely. "
Jasper wrote on Jun 26, 2008 10:55 PM:
" To W.D. Fred: I make sacrifices for things but I refuse to eat at McDonalds or BK in Hanford, why should I eat there in SF, LA or SD? I'm a Kings county employee, not a GI in Iraq. I do agree to make many of the sacrifices I make as an employee, namely do the best job I can as your public servant. I'm not doing time in Iraq so your "throw some dirt on it" attitude just won't work. It's not what I agreed to as your public servant. I do promise to work hard, be kind to those I serve and be "all that I can be". I agree with Oracle, I want a full accounting of how our BOS and CAO's spend our money. How many PPV movies, room service and leisurely meeting dinners entertaining friends and family are on their county credit cards? I want those in charge of all departments to disclose their expense accounts. I want to know this as it is my right to know as a taxpayer. I think per diem is fair. I also believe the Grand Jury should look closer at administration's expenditures. It's our money. "
Alan G. wrote on Jun 27, 2008 11:33 AM:
" Watchdog Fred, I don't know about you, but McDonald's, Burger King and Taco Bell are fine on a daily basis for the average glutton, but certainly not healthy by any means. Although, I've seen the average waistline in Kings County and much of the rest of the Country, so I can understand why you would find that acceptable. There are people out there who actually care about their health. Have you walked the aisle's of Target or WalMart lately? "
In response wrote on Jun 27, 2008 11:34 AM:
" I get a per diem where I work. Trust me half the time it isn't enough. Where I work they look at the conference program and if there is a meal provided they do not give you a per diem for that. So if you decide to skip the luncheon to purchase food on your own you are out of luck. One time they refused my dinner claim because the program said they provided a welcome dinner - the catch - you had to be on the organizing committee. I spent many hours filling out forms and explaining to get 19 dollars. I didn't care about the 19 dollars but they wouldn't pay me anything until I explained why my amount was different than theirs. Oh and I get paid AFTER I spend it all not before. So a month and a half later is very common for the reimbursement for a conference that I had to pay almost a year in advance.
Give them per diem and keep an eye on the conference program. That is my vote - and I'm a tax payer too. "
Wondering wrote on Jun 27, 2008 11:49 AM:
" It would be VERY interesting to have the Grand Jury browse over the expenses of management when they travel, or is the extra just part of a perk that comes with being management? "
To the Grand Jury... wrote on Jun 27, 2008 12:29 PM:
" Are you listening? So much money is wasted, not just on meals, but useless training and/or conferences. As a county employee I have been to many meetings where my fellow employees sign in and then ditch the meetings to go shopping, etc. And all of you out there know that this is not speculation but a fact! I agree that having employees attend conferences is important, IF they actually attend, but during the time when money is such an issue, I would vote to limit travel expenses. I can guarantee administration does not want to hear this. "
ALEJANDRO wrote on Jun 27, 2008 5:52 PM:
" Help me understand this:
If an employee doesn't go to an employer-mandated function, or chooses to stay home, or just works five days a week, who pays for their three meals a day?
So the three meal per diem is 100% a benefit of mandatory travel even though the employee must eat, cook, and pay on his own in every other non-mandatory situation.
So who started this type of perk anyway? Or, is it ‘just the way it has always been?'
My point is that there needs to be practical and cost-effective limits on anything that government does. "
Joe Friday wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:19 AM:
" Per Diem is a daily allowance for living expenses that has traditionally been paid to government workers and more recently those whose jobs require travel away from home. Per Diem is a Latin term that literally means per day, I've been able to trace Per Diem payments for public servants in our nation back to the 1780's. This was based on an even older English tradition that began with the House of Commons whose members and staff were not wealthy landowners and could not afford to live away from home. "
The Oracle Says... wrote on Jun 28, 2008 1:59 AM:
" ...Perk? Perk?? Dude, wake up. If i get SENT, ie mandatory, somewhere on government business, how can my expenses incurred be anywhere considered a PERK? Im doing a JOB, sent involuntarily yet part of my job. I guess under your idea, we should also pay our own car/plane fares to also complete the business, since looking out the window we could be considered "sightseing" on government time. Then I guess we could be issued military MRE's to take with us so we could "eat" while away. Sure its all feasible...right up to the point that nobody will work here anymore...especially since wages are already so far behind other counties. This stuff is 1980's material (see above post)..We have moved beyond this..and dont get me started on measure "A" from the 80's. BOS won the fight against it, THEN initiated it for THEMSELVES.....Hahaha Tied their salaries now to those of the Sperior court judges. Joke was on us. BOS, lead by example..open your books first. Hey Sentinel, heres a thought..pull the records and publish them. You have before, do it again "
scarecrow wrote on Jun 28, 2008 3:54 AM:
" many of you are off topic. All this is about is "accountability". For instance if I am paying my employee for all three meals throughout the day I want some proof. Ya its a couple to bucks here are there but spread out to many of employees. That couple of bucks adds up. Then its hundreds of dollars. Money that can be spent on people or place that really need them. In an economy like ours (present time) money is scare even with big businesses. Has anyone read the news lately, can you count how many local businesses have gone out of business? "
In reponse again wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:17 AM:
" Alejandro are you kidding? When I work I try to take a lunch if possible. I can eat far more healthy food if I can bring my own. That just doesn't work well when you HAVE to travel. The per diem is NOT the problem. A few bucks here and there is not going to change this issue. The real issue is how many trips are they taking and who is taking them. Do they limit how many trips any one individual takes? Also are there conferences that may offer the same information but be closer. For example I go to a regional conference that is for the western side of the US. I could ask to go the national one or the eastern conference. Costs are higher and the information is the same. Maybe a better, prettier or different location. Those are the questions we should be asking not if they had a salad or a filet mignon. The per diem they are paying is reasonable not over stated. Forget this issue and go after the BIG issue - the per diem is not the reason for $640,000.Forty three dollars a day per person? Seriously!! "
The Oracle Says.. wrote on Jun 28, 2008 1:02 PM:
" ...No, I disagree, this is not off topic. here we are in the midst of cutting public safety employees, that put all of us at more risk, and yet the BOS want to re-open a 1980's discussion on per diem?? Where is the accountability for social services, WIC, First five, et al..?? Where is the monthly receipt that welfare recipients should have, chronicling where they spend their (OUR) hard earned money? No, lets make the lowest paid county employees account for the $43 dollars a day they get while at a MANDATORY trip. Maybe they are buying new cars with all the EXTRA they are stashing while getting this outlandish per diem. This kind of stuff drives people crazy, and forces people back to the old way of getting extra receipts wherever they eat, so they can make it all come out Ok at the end when they turn in the old receipt vouchers. It makes liars out of everyone,,the employee, the auditors who see 8-12-23 everday/every meal, and the supervisors who approve them Its all BS, but if thats the game so be it...But come on...... "
Im just wondering wrote on Jun 28, 2008 5:40 PM:
" I don't know a lot about government stuff, but I keep hearing about how our county employees are paid less than every other county, there are layoffs affecting public safety and we don't have the time to do the extra paperwork involved with receipts. My question is-do we have access to county expenses, like salaries of management,bonuses? actual number of training trips per department per year and the costs involved. what is the reason why WE can't have well trained employees that earn a comperable wage. I'm really confused. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 28, 2008 5:47 PM:
" To Oracle - when did the County start passing out draft notices? What lured you to the County was it the $43 dollar per diem allowance when on business trips? Why is it you choose to talk about one perk and no others, like your haslth insurance, dental insurance, Calpers Retirement, prestige of employment, do you know how many people would like to work for the government? Often times we agree but I must disagree on this issue because I don't think accountability for an expense that is paid back with county funds, should be paid unless accompanied by a receipt.
What proof does the county have that the money is paid back without a receipt. Does the county pay you for lunch while at home base, no, then why should it pay for it when you are away, it is already factored into your personal expenses. Breakfast yes, dinner yes but not lunch in my opinion. None of the rest of us brown baggers got compensated for our lunches regardless of the reason. There is another perk, yes if other people don't receive it it is considered a perk. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 28, 2008 5:55 PM:
" To Oracle - but you did bring up a very valid point. I believe people on Welfare should be required to produce receipts and I think there should be spot checks and audits on them just like on the County Employees Expenses.
WIC is different, I know there are abuses but it is designated for an infant and I don't like taking away from infants milk, cheese, cereal, formula, juices etc., But I don't agree with the application process and the WIC store operators being able to charge more than fair market price for those products either. I knew of a WIC store in Southern California that paid $2.02 per gallon for milk and charged their customers $4.95 per gallon, I think that is excessive and should not be allowed. They cleared $78 for every case of milk they sold. Their useage at the time was 300 to 400 cases a week. That is over $30,000.00 per week just in milk sales alone. This person owned five stores now multiply that by 5X per week. That I don't agree with a profit is fine but a hammer for $100? "
ALEJANDRO wrote on Jun 28, 2008 6:54 PM:
" Say, I work five days a week, eight hours a day.
Each work day is a mandatory day for my job as it is my normal work obligation.
Who pays for my normal workday breakfast, lunch, and dinner? ME
So now I am sent by my job (or I volunteer to go) to take my regular workday responsibilities at, lets say, an out of town conference.
All of my transportation and housing is paid for by my employer as it should be. Reasonable.
But, because my normal eight hour workday is not in its usual location, my employer decides to pay for my meals either via a per diem allowance or actual reimbursement via receipts and out of pocket expense logs.
So these paid-for daily three meals and tips are a treat for me as I normally would have to incur these expenses myself during my workweek at home.
Ergo, free food and tips, in my way of thinking, means a ‘perk.'
And I guess it could rightly be called an ‘entitlement' too from what posters are saying here.
I never said I agreed or disagreed with it either. "
ALEJANDRO wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:04 PM:
" And I would like to go on record with The Oracle and others who believe ALL local public safety services should -no, must - receive top priority during the budgeting process.
Police, Fire protection, Emergency life transport, and related essential services protect us all no matter what politics we may have or citizenship status.
It's the entitlements and public give-aways, and the optional social programs that need to be looked at first in terms of fiscal accountability and practicality.
Isn't that simply common sense? "
rj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:40 PM:
" I don't know about some of the other departments in city and county government that send employees to trainings but all of my experience has been in the law enforcement side. And law enforcement agencies are mandated to send their employees to so many hours of training per year so the employees don't have a choice really whether they want to go to training or not. They have to attend them to keep their certifications. One of my co-workers attended a training class down south earlier this year and after returning and filling out the expense form with her receipts it took almost two months to get her reimbursement from the city because it seemed that each week they would send the form back wanting more clarifiction on something. She would fix that issue and send it back over and the next week they would send it back for something else. How is this cost effective? How many hours were wasted going back and forth for almost two months. With per diem, that nonsense is done away with. I wish that when I am required to go out of town to training I got per diem, less headache. "
rj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:54 PM:
" Con't... Usually when I am out of town at training I am the only one there that is required by their city or county agency to require receipts. All the others get per diem. At the last training class I attended their was a lady from San Benito County, I believe and she got $70 per diem to help cover the other incidentals like water and snacks at the hotel. While at my training I used my credit card to pay for one of my meals and didn't notice that the receipt didn't itemize the meal. It just had the total. I got my expense form returned saying I needed to call down south and have them try to locate the meal in their computer and print me a new receipt that itemized my meal. So, several long distance calls later they were finally able to pull up my purchase and fax me a copy of the itemized reciept. So it ended up taking close to three weeks to get my reimbursement. So for me, I will vote for per diem every time. Much easier, less hassle and in my opinion cost effective in the long run. "
rj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:36 PM:
" Con't... To those people who say that government employees should just eat at Taco Bell, McDonalds etc... Not all of us want to have to eat unhealthy fast foods all the time. I am trying to stay healthy and watch what I eat and you can't really do that at the fast food places. When we are sent out of town it's not like we have access to a kitchen to cook and prepare the healthier foods we eat at home. Personally I don't like having to eat out all the time even at a decent restaurant. I much prefer to prepare my own food since I know what I like and can prepare it how I want it. But when you are out of town at training you are stuck having to eat out at restaurants. At least with per diem if there is a little bit left over from the actual meals you can buy some bottled water and snacks for your time spent in the hotel room. In my situation with reciepts required I am out that money since it's not part of the meal at the restaurant. "
In reponse again wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:51 PM:
" I'm in education - not in Hanford... higher education. My out of town conferences are almost always on weekends. So yes I have to eat on the weekend but I'm giving up my days off - and no I do not get overtime. I get the conference paid, per diem and I get the educational benefits. Per diem is just easier. Usually government agencies set what is appropriate and other institutions follow suit. I do not think 43 dollars is out of line. I know where I work they also set mileage rates - right now they are at 58 cents.... yeah that is worth the gas and wear and tear on my car. Set rates are just easier for paperwork. I want to also agree with Alejandro public safety should be the number one priority. "
The Oracle Says... wrote on Jun 29, 2008 1:03 AM:
" ..Prestige of employment?? Now thats a laugh. Medical insurance through the roof (like everbody else), you pay half dental, retirement system that is under attack constantly or raided by the governor to balance the budget, and a Sheriff thats more concerned with pastoring than "sheriffing", and staff required to make an appointment to see him, along with a tidal wave of people bailing off a sinking ship....Oh yeah, there's prestige all right. THEN, we go retro to the 80's and review per diem rules. Then we get to read that the public writes, "I dont get paid to eat,so why should you." Yeah that really fills the void. Makes me want to go right out and help the caring public. Note to young people...Go be a fireman. People take them food, etc...Law enforcement in todays world, sucks. Read the above comments about your "caring" public if you dont believe it. Comments about "free coffee", no money for meals away at training...Whats next, buy your own guns and bullets a la 1800's? Hey I know, call Scott and have him respond to help you. "
Paper pusher wrote on Jun 29, 2008 8:14 AM:
" Rj you have clearly illustrated what myself and others have been saying in these comments, that the problem with keeping receipts vs straight per diem is that the additional paperwork involved increases costs to the taxpayer in the long run. The choice here it seems to me is between cops and fiscal analysts, who should the county hire with its limited dollars? "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 29, 2008 8:26 AM:
" To RJ - I know this may be hard to believe but Taco Bell serves wraps which are healthier, McDonalds has a salad which is even better and if you are worried about the calories just for go the salad dressing or spend a buck and by one you feel is more along the line of your diet.
As for the snacks you want apples, bananas, oranges various fruits can be kept for a day or two very well without refrigeration.
I don't know if I knew I had something coming up, I might manage a trip to a store before I left and purchased healthier snacks and food to take along with me. More than likely you are driving so what harm a little styrofoam cooler for some cool drinks and even lunch meat and cheese can be kept on ice. Those little 100 calorie snack bars they have out now are great little snacks.
Somehow I think you prefer an excuse to a solution. As for per diem if that is truly what you want go work for Sheriff Jordan. Why should Hanford change their policy to suit you? "
Alan G. wrote on Jun 29, 2008 12:19 PM:
" Another thing that the anti-per diem crowd don't seem to acknowledge is that while you are at your daily job, you have the option to go home and eat or pack a meal. You don't have that option when you travel and MUST eat your meals out. "
cents wrote on Jun 29, 2008 12:34 PM:
" This isn't about per diem at all. This is Spikes and the BOS distracting everyone. They R setting the stage for something bigger. If you look at the per diem it is likely one of the smaller parts of the budget where even significant cuts won't help. Just like a politician to consider a multi million dollar budget and hang up on a few dollars. Typical! I'm telling you it is a political move and probably is because negotiations is here. Another point...per diem is not a gift or perk. When governement employees are sent to training it is often times in areas where the economy is different than what the County's is. So the dollars don't go as far when meals cost more. It also gives the employee more option if he/she has any particular dietary needs i.e. diabetic etc. With per diem there is no abuse. With receipts there always has been and always will be. Per diem makes the most sense from the employer and employee perspective. This issue has been studied many times and at the end of the day per diem is the best way. "
PATRIOT wrote on Jun 29, 2008 12:53 PM:
" IF YOU DONT HAVE A REC. YOU SHOULD NOT BE REIMBURSED, THATS HOW IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE ELSE IN AMERICA. WHO DO THESE PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE CAUSE THEY HAVE A (E) ON THE COUNTY VEHICLE MEANING EXEMPT, GIVES THE THE EXCEPTION TO ALL RULES? WHY WAS THIS ISSUE NOT HANDLED THIS WAY FROM THE START? SOUNDS LIKE AN EASY WAY TO MAKE SOME EXTRA MONEY, BEING A "KINGS" COUNTY EMPLOYEE.............. "
Jasper wrote on Jun 29, 2008 1:29 PM:
" It appears the postings regarding per diem have gotten off track. For the record, BOS have the power to adjust budgets for public safety, not welfare (a state mandated program). If citizens wonder why nothing seems to be taken away from welfare, the BOS is powerless to make changes, that is done on the state level. It is unfortunate but the programs that usually take the hit is public safety. Having said that, making employees turn in receipts will not save money. A quick examintion of other places that BOS could cut to make up the public safety loss is increading building impact fees and all fees charged by planning, tipping fees for the hazardous waste dump, fees for the current compost dump near Stratford, additional air impact fees from dairies (to help fund the health dept.), a gas surcharge for traffic citations given by county deputies (reimbusement for fuel to sheriff would be the benefit), increase recording fees for documents from the recorders office (current fee schedule does not cover total costs incurred, we taxpayers make up the differnce), implement increased sales taxes (come on, we are at the state level folks, we could use the revenue). "
Fire guy wrote on Jun 29, 2008 2:14 PM:
" This is ridiculous! Quit your whining! I also work for the county and ALWAYS get receipts for my meals. Its a courtesy thing I guess. Thanks Sheriff Jordan for showing your true colors...again! Im happy because the county pays for my meals and training in the first place! The least I can do is get receipts for my meals! There are many times I dont use all of the allowed amount for my meals which in turn saves the county and tax payers money. We ALL need to do our part. This is at least something small we can do to help. And I also believe that you dont have to eat places that cost $50 for a freakin' steak dinner. Go somewhere like Subway and quit being a mooch! "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 29, 2008 6:55 PM:
" Jasper - are you a County Supervisor or Politician. You speak polictician very well, you wind corners, climb up walls and slither back down looking for ways to raise fees (which in reality are taxes) without telling people you want to raise their taxes, that's a Politician's main objective. It is as old a trick as the oldest recognized occupation and resembles it in many ways. We ask for accountability and your solution in return is to squeeze more money out of a County that is beginning to resemble a piggy bank that is anerexic. If you aren't a Politician you certainly should run for office, you equate the mentality.
Let me pose this a different way, what is chances of you going home and talking your significant other into giving you $43 a day out of the household budget while you are out of town on business. Probably slim and none right? Well why do you look at the county differently, they have a daily budget to work within too. As for you having to go, you don't have to do anything, you can change your line of work, have less prestige, "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 29, 2008 7:03 PM:
" Jasper - I equate this to the lecture I received at the Recruit Training Center at Naval Station San Diego, California. When a Chief Petty Officer stood before us during clothing issue and stated do you have a wife in that sea bag, of course we didn't, "well then I don't want to here her" opinion. Secondly, "any man who did not volunteer for this assignment and was drafted may leave immediately". The navy hadn't drafted since WWII. We were all volunteers, remember none of you have contracts you are all at will employment, either party can disolve the relationship at any time.
The training you receive while away nine chances out of ten you will reap the benefit from not anyone else. You'll more effectively do your job freeing you up to take more taining because you won't always be running around trying to play catch up. So in the end who really benefits. I don't think anyone with less than five years remaining to retirement should be sent to anything an already selected candidate to replace them should be sent instead. Because the taxpayers aren't going to reap the benefit. "
Sorry Patriot but youre wrong.. wrote on Jun 29, 2008 8:17 PM:
" Most companies of the size of the County pay per diem. In the private sector they are concerned about profit and not just about what might be perceived to be the "right thing". Private sector companies know that it costs them more to collect and process receipts than not. If everybody did it the IRS wouldn't need or publish rules so it could be done.....
Oops... let me type it in all caps so IT LOOKS LIKE I'M YELLING AND ANGRY! "
Oh please wrote on Jun 29, 2008 9:26 PM:
" Most city and county employees work in the city or county they live in. That means they are also taxpayers. Does this mean that they also in some way contribute to their salaries? So not only do they get to work near where they live they also get to pay their own salaries or a portion thereof. Not only do they get to do this but they get to incur the wrath of the citizens of the cities and counties and the governor of the state. What special people they must be to endure all of this love. We all help to pay everyone's salary whether you work for the city the county or private industry. If we didn't partronize McDonalds there wouldn't be one. Everyone is pretty high and mighty over $43.00. It seems to me that the city/county workers are away from home, don't get to eat home cooked meals and oh my gosh may go to a shopping mall after their classes. Shame. They may or may not have a refrigerator in their rooms. They may be able to bring food with them. But... "
Hung up wrote on Jun 29, 2008 9:46 PM:
" Everyone is hung up on this as if it isn't the industry standard. I'm not a Jordan fan either but he is correct. Poll most municipalities and counties throughout the state and you will find the majority receiving per diem for travel and training. It is the most efficient way to go. If you collect receipts you pay actual costs which are often times more than per diem. A little more here a little less there it all comes out in the wash. Nobody is getting over on the county with per diem. It probably even saves money. Look at cities that went from receipts to per diem and you will probably see that they realized a savings. Most organizations recommend per diem. I have not checked but I believe POST recommends per diem. Industry standard... What is the travel training budget...less than 1%. We should be spending our time scrutinizing the bigger ticket items. If you spend all that time on the small stuff you miss the bigger expenditures that should be scrutinized. This is splitting hairs. "
The Oracle Says... wrote on Jun 29, 2008 10:47 PM:
" ...I call BS on "fire guy" posting. Not one person I know thinks that way over there. I believe it to be a false flag posting. And as to the county being powerless to cut social services, thtas not true entirely. They can do it. Its just tied to so many other things, BUT if it comes down to cutting emergency services VS welfare, then do it. WHo disagrees with this? Yet they do it every time. I keep asking the sentinel to do a story..explain to all of us the exact why? Not just what BOS says, but facts...if the county cut welfare first, what are the ramifications? How about we have a public forum and let the public have input. After all, we elected them as our REPRESENATIVES, Ie they are supposed to represent our views, not theirs. Politicians forget that. A northern county had to make this choice some time ago. THey chose public safety. Why cant we? Come on Sentinel, look into it. "
To Jasper wrote on Jun 30, 2008 6:14 AM:
" Its not a "Public View" regarding unnecessary travel. I am a County employee. I have seen first hand that many (not all) employees take advantage of these out of town meetings. They have skipped seminars to go shopping, site seeing, or just to relax by the pool or bar. There are many luncheons, dinners, happy hours etc. I don't think any County employee can honestly deny this fact. And this includes the BOS, Admin, Management etc., theyve all been there and either done that, or have seen that. "
fire guy wrote on Jun 30, 2008 7:55 PM:
" Hey "Oracle"- Give me a call! Im in Avenal. Im sure with all of these fires I'll still be on duty by the time you read this. Every firefighter at this station, along with the many others I've attended classes with feel the same way I do. We occasionaly have a nice dinner when attending training out of town for a week, but we rarely spend the allotted amount for the week. And we always get reciepts! Most guys pay for there own dinner and never try to get reimbursed. You're obviously a cop that hasn't spent too much personal time with "the good guys." Seriously, call me! I hate hen pecking this keyboard. "
To To Jasper wrote on Jun 30, 2008 9:27 PM:
" If an employee is not participating in the training he or she has been sent to that is a personnel issue and that employee should be disciplined. It has nothing to do with per diem or receipts. Per diem is the best way to go for the employee and for the employer. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 1, 2008 1:40 PM:
" fire guy - Thanks for an honest comment regarding this issue. It is good to see that there are still gentlemen willing to tell it like it is on this issue. I was never reimbursed dinner in any of my jobs and had many, many expense accounts that I watched others pad, while I held in reserve for legitimate needs such as purchasing supplies and materials needed in the performance of my assigned duties.
I knew a guy who took his entire family out to dinner every Friday night and wrote it down as an exspensive dinner to try and win over a new client, who never existed. The company required receipts but not itemized receipts, that is how he got away with it.
I always figured those that cheat get cheated on in the end. "
Welfare vs. Safety wrote on Jul 1, 2008 8:06 PM:
" Wrong, wrong wrong. You take money from welfare and (some not all) people will resort to stealing which will create more of a need in police officers. We will then be back to oh, sorry, back to where we currently are with deficient salaries and benefits for officers leaving a la skid marks at the door. "
another thought wrote on Jul 2, 2008 2:15 PM:
" It may or may not be obvious to the typical person, but to me government has to remain competitive with private industry which means per diems for travel. Certainly accountability must be a part of that, but why not go the way private industry has gone... Issue a debit card to the traveling employee, load debit cards with the appropriate per diem amount and require them to be turned in upon return. Each debit card is assigned to a specific person via the account number and can be used over and over. The documentation takes place. One can't go above their allotted amount or else it's declined. KISS - Keep it sweet and simple... "
rj wrote on Jul 4, 2008 5:25 AM:
" To Watchdog Fred...
I am not wanting the City to change their policy for me. I was just pointing out the fact that whenever I am out of town at training I am the only one that has to deal with receipts. Try going to a three or four week training class and use your methods. Not convienent or practal to say the least. On my last three week class I was storing my receipts in the night stand next to the bed. I came back to the hotel after class mid way through the second week to find the receipts gone. The maid had thrown them away. So how do you go about that? It was a major hassle and I was not able to get reimbursed on some of the meals. Like myself and others have said the requiring receipts is not the norm and if so many other countys, cities and businesses utilize per diem it more than likely is because it is cheaper and easier in the long run. By the way, there are certain city employees that do get per diem when going out of town for training. "
rj wrote on Jul 4, 2008 5:38 AM:
" Watchdog Fred con't...
I don't think you realize how inconvient these trainings can be sometimes. I do enjoy being able to go and get the latest information that will help me do my job better. But we have been asking for years for the city to get credit cards to use on training trips but have been denied. The city wants us to book our hotels on our personal credit cards and then they will send a check along to pay for it. Well, there have been times that the hotel will not take the city check. I for one have gotten rid of my credit cards over the years and just have my bank atm card. I don't want to have a big hotel charge go on that and send my account into a negative balance and cause things that I have set up for auto-pay to bounce and ring up huge overdraft charges. In the law enforcement trainings people are not allowed to leave during the training unless it's an emergency. You sign in again after lunch to verify everyone is still there. You have to attend so many hours to get credit for the training. "
rj wrote on Jul 4, 2008 5:53 AM:
" Watchdog Fred con't...
Don't think that I am just someone who is hoping to make a free buck from getting per diem for my trainings. I'm not quite as old as you, no offense, just pointing out that this younger generation's work ethic is just not the same as it used to be. I have always showed up to work early, usually try to be at least thirty minutes early. I get everything all ready and I usually start working but don't put in for the extra time. Just a philosophy that I learned from my grandparents as a child. I even provide most of my own office supplies. I buy my own writing instruments, my own white out etc... I try my best to be a good worker and work as hard as I can. I feel it is these work ethics that have made all my former employers tell me that they would love to have me work for them again if the situation ever arose. So it's just my personal opinion and experience that per diem is overall the best method for these situations. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 4, 2008 11:50 PM:
" To rj: no offense taken but you realize, I didn't come over on the Mayflower don't you. I also had those same work ethics and was told the same thing by former employers. I agree with one point, you made you should not be responsible to prepay your motel room on your own credit card. Those trainings are far enough in advance that the city should be able to make payment arrangements in advance at their own expense. Most hotels have a cancellation policy. But don't be surprised when you check in that the hotel wont still ask for a credit/atm card to charge telephone or other non-related expenses to your room, that is standard operating procedure. But still yet you shouldn't need per diem for your meals. The way I look at meals is you have to pay to eat regardless of where you are staying. If it costs a little more, you save the receipt and get reimbursed what is the problem? I don't go along with a credit card because the citizens already paid $15,500.00 on one it shouldn't have. One can ruin it for many. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 4, 2008 11:57 PM:
" To rj: years ago I worked for Beacon Oil making deliveries from Hanford to Redding in the North and over to the bay area, many times I was gone four nights a week. I would turn in an expense report with hotels, meals etc., and my boas had to walk it through ap to get me a check cut so I'd have operating money available. So for two and a half years, I had to play the recipt game so it isn't as if I don't understand the frustration. But if you get an envelope and keep your receipts in your vehicle it is less likely for anyone to discard them. I'm afraid hotel management and I would have had a discussion over those receipts being thrown away and I would have made a pursuit for reimbursement from them for your loss. They don't want bad publicity with long term visitors to their establishment especially when you represent an entire city of officers who probably travel to that coummunity for training. That's a lot of future business to wager on a few bucks. But I still vote on the side of accountability for everyone. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 5, 2008 12:04 AM:
" To rj: my example is this how many city employees travel at city expense, how many county employees travel at country expense? If you don't have accountability and even if someone reports $10 they didn't spend time 500 employees, you've spent $5,000 that shouldn't have been spent. Now multiply that times how many travel occurences happened and I think you can see how that could get out of hand in a hurry and before you know it city and county residents don't have a program because of lack of funding. Because 10 more instances of the first and you have lost $50,000.00, that could fund something.
It's not that all people aren't honest, but it's well the county gets $43 a day to eat on why shouldn't I get $60, my position is protecting the community, it's much more important than what they do. You have to look at the overall picture instead of one particular set of circumstances.
That same scenario in ten years at ten dollars and employee could be $500,000.00 Now does it seem like a big problem yet? "
You all need to realize... wrote on Jul 5, 2008 4:30 PM:
" that watchdog fred thinks because he works in safety they should be making more money than anybody else so all you can really count on is the same ol' same ol' from every conversation..... My point all along to Fred and Oracle has been - if you are that unhappy, please don't let the door hit you in the butt as you go through it.... No amount of grousing about your pay is going to change that. So, just like the rest of us do, find something better. If it's that easy to do what is taking you so long???? "
W.O.W. wrote on Jul 6, 2008 5:30 PM:
" I just can't get how the cost of accounting would be greater than the benefits.........Isn't that position full time? What more does it cost to process a few receipts or are all employees away on "business" and each one has to have their receipts checked? Sounds like the usual "poor me" beaucrats whining again!!!!! "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 8, 2008 12:48 PM:
" To You All Need To Realize: well the first thing you need to realize, is although I support our law enforcement because I've had several relatives employed by them, doesn't mean I myself am in law enforcement. I however, do think they have a thankless job and with your opinion that is just solidified by your very own comments. I'll tell ya what next time you have a crime near you call a crook and see how much help they are. Your non support of the law enforcement agencies where you live is in reality support for the crimminals. So you keep toasting and raising your glass to the crimminals and I will continue to raise mine and toast the good guys who try and uphold the laws of the land. Perhaps it is you who should seek another place of residence perhaps Farmersville or Woodlake might be more to your backwards thinking. Don't let the door hit you in the butt either. "
To Fred wrote on Jul 8, 2008 8:34 PM:
" From "Realize". I also support law enforcement. Yep, there's a but.... But, not to the extent that the only answer to every problem is paying law enforcement more money. The reality is we would like to pay everybody what they deserve. However, the best that can be done is to try to be competitive and fair. It is up to each deputy, officer, social worker, nurse, manager, administrator... - you see where I'm going - to decide whether that's going to work for them. If not, then it's time to see what my options are. Constant complaining is not going to work. I guess that's my point. Hearing it sooo much is only making me tired of hearing it - not the result you're looking for.... "
Cmon Fred wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:08 PM:
" You come across as an over zelous officer/deputy. You aren't representing all of law enforcement in Kings. I'm so tired of this whining. All law enforcement have it tough...no question about it. Some agencies do better than others with pay, support etc. and even that changes with the change in leadership. It is never going to be perfect and it takes hard work from the bottom up. Sitting back and waiting for the leaders to bring the pot of gold to you is a bad plan. If officers/deputies worked hard (many do) and gave people the service they deserved ot would naturally draw attention and ultimately that = raises, etc. I'm in law enforcement in this County and I have had good leaders, bad leaders and through it all I survived and took care of my family. Please stop the crying you are giving other law enforcement officers a bad rep to overcome and frankly, I have a hard enough job, I don't want to be painted with the same brush. That goes to all of the other whiners. Please respect others in the profession and be professionals. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 4:37 PM:
" To c'mon Fred: let me get this perfectly straight from the get go, I do not represent nor am I a part of any law enforcement agency in this or any other county. Why you aren't understanding that is beyond me. When I say I support law enforcement, I mean I support law enforcement having had three highway patrolman and one city cop in my family you bet I support you guys. When I say you deserve a raise that is exactly what I mean, I am not gaining one cent by requesting a raise for law enforcement. I guarantee you if you were to check with Tulare County, Kern County, Fresno County you would find significant differences in salaries. If you checked with Visalia, Porterville, Selma, Fresno, Coalinga, Madera, Modesto to Hanford PD you would see again significant differences. What I am saying is they should be brought into alinement with other cities and counties so we don't lose them? If that in any way sounds like I am whining well it is for your benefit, but if you don't want any civlian input or support just tell me . "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 4:39 PM:
" To c'mon Fred: if you read any of my other blogs, you will know I give you guys crap and I give you guys praise depending on the situation, if you don't want honest input and feedback then when it comes time for budget cuts, I'll be silent. "
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