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The Bible says it all

Editor: It is not the righteous, holier-than-thou religious groups, nor the extremists. It is in the Holy Bible written by a holy God that says homosexuality (not gay) is a perversion, and it's sin. God does not change (Malachi 3:6).

How can one go to the polls in November and vote "yes, it's OK" when God says it's not OK? I know they are everywhere, but that doesn't make it right.

Some say, "Oh that's Old Testament stuff." Please read in the New Testament Romans Chapter 1, verses 18-32. Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall not pass away" (Matthew 24:35).

In 1 Corinthians Chapter 6, verses 9 and 10: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the Kingdom of God."

Alice A. Azevedo

Hanford

(July 2, 2008)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Mag wrote on Jul 2, 2008 1:28 PM:

" Can open. Worms everywhere.
Once again, it is your right to believe what you wish, and that means I get to believe what I wish too. I don't believe there is a god that has absolute rules, laws, or dictations on how to live. If you don't approve of gay marriage, don't do it. I will never in a million years vote against two people who love each other to commit to each other on paper, just like you can if you wish. "

Alan G. wrote on Jul 2, 2008 2:51 PM:

" You might as well quote "Alice In Wonderland" because it holds just as much weight in my opinion. "

Hello wrote on Jul 2, 2008 8:07 PM:

" God has no place in the law books. Sorry God is a part of a person... Believe what you must. "

cynic wrote on Jul 3, 2008 10:09 AM:

" Well put, Alice. But many will say "that's not tolerant". Well who says tolerance is such a great thing. We expect teachers to give the grades deserved, judges to give appropriate sentences, and cars and buildings built to strict safety requirements. I don't want any tolerance in the building of my car or home. I want rules followed. So if you consider yourself a christian, there are rules. Christianity is not a cafeteria. You cannot decide what parts you want to follow and what parts you want to gloss over. If you believe in the book, do what it says. There are so many "christian" groups and people who consider themselves christians out there who have decided that God is loving and accepting of this behavior who need to get off the fence. Could you be a Buddhist and just not go along with that whole "reincarnation" thing? Or a Muslim and decide that pork tastes pretty good? Why do we as christians think we can pick and choose what we want from the Bible? Don't call yourself a believer if you don't believe. "

Devils Advocate wrote on Jul 3, 2008 1:41 PM:

" Something that I see quite often - people seem to interpret the general concept of "separation of church and state" as applying to people's participation in government. Well, turns out that regardless of what my motives are for casting a vote - fairness, greed, social justice, religious principle, maliciousness, or stupidity - it still COUNTS. Its just as valid and real as any vote made for any other reason. Don't like my beliefs codified - tough, this is America, pal. I don't agree with every law you've voted in, either. But I do respect your right to do it. Heck, I'll bleed to defend your right to an opinion. I'd really appreciate it going both ways. "

We the People wrote on Jul 4, 2008 11:30 PM:

" Not everyone believes in God. Those who do, then "vote no". For those who believe, the Bible says God will judge each of us when we meet him. Do not throw the bible at us like most do. For the ones that preach the bible and shove Go's words down our throats and are the same ones who sin daily. Mind your own business and get over it. "

dose wrote on Jul 5, 2008 1:02 AM:

" To Alice Azevedo:

I don't care what your god says about homosexuality or anything else for that matter. I have never made a decision with your gods interests in mind. Stop preaching your superstitions to me and the rest of America. "

Melissa wrote on Jul 5, 2008 2:53 AM:

" Alice, I will assume that you are a christen...who follows all of your gods rules....but I have to ask what you would do if the Muslim religion tried to force it's rules on you? I can almost bet you wouldn't like to have a religion force upon you.
I don't like it either.
You can't hide behind religion, I think you are because nothing you write is your opinion, but statements some guy wote which would be his beliefs. I have no problem calling you a prejusticed person if that is how I see it. But from what I remember from bible lessons is that jesus wan't a discriminator...he accepted people from all walks of life...can you follow in his footsteps? If not how true of a believer are you? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 5, 2008 4:45 AM:

" Why do Atheist go so far to try and disprove the Bible if it isn't factual. If it truly isn't factual and from God why would it exist, how would it exist and why would Atheist care how we use it or what we quote?
Could it be that deep down inside some where the possibility that God does exist is in the pit of their stomachs, the recesses of their heart or the compartmentalized part of their brain? Dare they try and hedge their bet by betting it doesn't exist?
I for one choose to believe in God and the Bible/Scriptures and old testament or new the words are profound, undoubted and there for all that care to read. They aren't cloaked in secrecy, there is no private handshake or secret word to be a part of it, you just simply have to recognize that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. For life eternity, how much simpler could it be than to accept something you already believe in and accept without all the Hoopla. Look around you, look at human beings themselves are you gonna tell me God didn't create all before you? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 5, 2008 4:52 AM:

" How can two people suffer the same experience in life one come out without a scratch and the other parish? Is that fate or karma your connecting that too? My grandmother always use to tell us beware of the person who slays God with his tongue for they worship the Devil with their mind. I have found that to be true in a lot of instances, those who don't pray on bended knee often raise their arms to the Devil during darkness. All you have to do is visit the right cornfield on any given night and look for the bonfire and the Devil's Deciples. Don't let them kid you with all this atheism stuff the real idol they worship is Diablo, Satan, the devil himself.
There is a price to pay for that position as well, but they think the Devil will defeat God in the end and a lesson shall soon be learned by them all. We of faith were pciked by the Father those who were not picked were left for the Devil to pick, I'm glad I am on God's side. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 5, 2008 5:00 AM:

" Don't be fooled folks GLBT doesn't stand for Good Lessons Being Taught. It Stands for Gays, Lesbians, Bi-Sexual, Transvestites they don't use the words thinking the initials won't imply what the names do and have down through centuries of disapproval by setting rulers and leaders. Read the story of Soddam and Gomorah for an indication of how the Lord feels about their behavior. When Noah gathered his stock for the Arch he didn't grab male and male, he grabbed male and female of each species, picked in twos for the preservation of their species. Remember those floods were for a reason too, people had turned their backs on God and Noah was not directed to pick a man and a woman from each race was he? If they don't think the possibility exists why do they protest the word of God so emphaitically? Wake up and realize our paths are planned long before we are and destiny awaits us all. I would much rather be in Heaven at the thrown of the Lord our God than at the perilous demize of fire and brimstone starring at the Devil. "

Bible Koran etc wrote on Jul 5, 2008 8:56 AM:

" They were all written by men. Not by gods. Human beings. Flesh and blood. We are all entitled to our own opinions. Just don't force your opinion on mine. You wouldn't want me to force my opinion on you. "

So you beleave the Lie wrote on Jul 5, 2008 9:22 AM:

" It is truely amazing how no faith is abused like that of those in the Bible. Whether one is a heterosexual in denial or not. If one does not recognize themself a sinner, and ask Jesus the Christ(Savior) for forgiveness. There awaits Judgement, and eternal damnation. All sinners are a abomination to God. He is perfect, Holy, and Righteous. He will judge sin as you would expect. The Messiah is the chosen one for forgiveness only. The Holy Bible is where you can find this Truth. If you choose to believe something else. Then satan has victory in your wasted life, and your his puppet. Do oranges come from palm trees? No Oranges come from Orange trees. If your satan workmanship then the fire awaits, and eternal separation from our Lord awaits. God made these facts known, because He Truely Loves you and wants for you the best. Would you give your child a snake or a rock if they were hungry? How much more God, who Loves you and only wants to Bless you if you focus your life on Him! "

Watchman wrote on Jul 5, 2008 12:08 PM:

" Alice I like you, you’re not afraid to say it like it is and print you name next to it. There is a God who created the universe, who is unchanging and whose many promises & prophecies have come to pass. Those of us who are students of the Bible know the Bible to be true. Our job is to be a watchman and sound the call to repentance. "

Concerned wrote on Jul 5, 2008 12:29 PM:

" According to the bible, Most of Hanford would never make it. Maybe we should just keep them from getting married too. Just to keep it fair. This is an equality issue people, get over it. Just do the right thing. Don't be one of those people who turn your head and pretend that all people red and yellow black and white that are precious in his site. jesus loved all the children in the world. Including Samuel and David, Naomi and Ruth. Come on this gay marriage issue has already happened in the bible. "

Lorie wrote on Jul 5, 2008 1:14 PM:

" Ms. Azevedo, this is EXACTLY why I believe in "seperation of church and state." the men who wrote who wrote the constitution firmly believed that government must be kept seperate from religion. This is because they had seen firsthand what can happen when government and church become one. Many colonist fled Europe to escape the restrictions that governments put on their religious lives. When they arrived in the Americas, many again suffered under religious persecution, only it came from colonial governments. "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Jul 5, 2008 1:27 PM:

" You know there used to be a day when God's law was the only law there was. It was when man decided to step in that things became corrupt. When man decided that his law was better than God's law. I was reading in the Book of Mormon ( and don't start on that- many of you claim that not even the Bible is true so don't start on this too, I am just telling what I read) and there is a whole chapter about the government becoming corrupt. So this is nothing new. But I believe that as long as we have a few God's Law abiding people we will never have a seperation between church and state. I know for a fact that at many of the meetings that they have they open and close with prayer. God wanted this world to be a certain way but he gave us our agency to choose and unfortunately not every one makes that right choices. And I believe that makes him really sad, It's because of man's choices that the world has ended up the way it is because so many have forgotten to follow God's Law. "

dose wrote on Jul 5, 2008 1:49 PM:

" Ok this is the fourth time I have asked this question, and will probably be the fourth time I don't get an answer. But can any of you so called christians explain to me exactly how gay marraige affects you personally? Tell me exactly how gay marraige is going to ruin your marriage. Just because your god says it is a no-no doesn't count. Show me how if gay marraige is allowed that your life will be irreperably harmed. "

Katy Smalls wrote on Jul 5, 2008 3:25 PM:

" Alice,

I don't care what YOUR god has to say. Feel free to vote the way you want based on whatever you believe. Thats your right. But your rant does nothing to change my vote. You might as well start reading The Wizard of Oz to me. In my opinion both are pieces of fiction and have nothing to do with the way I vote. "

Who cares let people live their own lives wrote on Jul 5, 2008 4:08 PM:

" Watchdog Fred writes, Why do Atheist go so far to try and disprove the Bible if it isn't factual. Yet he is the one that writes the most...go figure. "

Ashley wrote on Jul 5, 2008 4:36 PM:

" "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

I think that pretty much says it all! ... "

To non believers wrote on Jul 5, 2008 9:02 PM:

" While I agree with Alice 100 percent, I know there are few people who, as sad as it may be, do not know Jesus as the savior. Rest assured Jesus died for our sins and we (humans) do not have any final say in judgement. Homosexuality is a sin, but so are many other things. It is demon that thoe who are afflicted with will have to live with. The Bible says it all, but if you are a non believer, then look at simple plumbing.

If I want my home plumbing to work, then female to female connectors or male to male connectors do not work. They do not work in plumbing, electricity or in life. "

Amanda R wrote on Jul 5, 2008 9:27 PM:

" Alice, there's just no getting through to them through letters, so put your pen down, bow your head and pray for the unbelievers. "

Billy Buck wrote on Jul 5, 2008 9:56 PM:

" Thank you Alice for helping to educate Hanford! And to Cynic, you are so correct when you said; “You cannot decide what parts (of the Bible) you want to follow and what parts you want to gloss over.” But I have a few questions.
The Bible stateS eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev 11:10) is that a lesser abomination that homosexuality? Does it also carry the death penalty? I’m confused, can you settle this?
I was married last year and yesterday my wife told me she was not a virgin when we got married, so how do I get volunteers to stone her to death as the Bible commands? (Duet 22-13-21).
My brother got a little drunk and committed adultery last week so I have the same problem, finding someone to stone him to death. Deut 22:22.
Obviously, you have studied these things, so I am confident you can help.
Please continue teaching truth and not tolerance
Thank you again for reminding us that the Bible is eternal and unchanging. "

Billy Buck wrote on Jul 5, 2008 10:00 PM:

" I would like to sell my daughter into slavery as it says in Exodus 21:7, In this day and age what would be a fair price? (See also II Sam 5:13; Judges 19-21 and Num 31:18.)
I am not allowed to touch a women while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness and if I touch her, I will be unclean (Lev 15: 16, 19-24; Lev 18:19) The problem is, how do I tell? ILev 25:44 says I may buy slaves from nations around us who are temporary residents. How do I obtain green card information? A friend of mine interprets the Bible to say that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians, can you clarify?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to put him to death myself? By the way, is the Sabbath on Saturday or Sunday?
Obviously, you have studied these things, so I am confident you can help.
Please continue teaching truth and not tolerance
Thank you again for reminding us that the Bible is eternal and "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Jul 6, 2008 1:41 PM:

" And one more thing that I have noticed for those you claim that this country wasn't founded on Christian principles. Look at the songs that we sing at this time of year. Look at how many times God is mentioned in them. America the Beautiful, My Country, 'Tis of Thee, our very national anthem! The Star Spangled Banner says "In God is our trust!" Our pledge, in One Nation, Under God!! You can't tell me that this nation isn't meant to have God in everything we do when our very forefathers knew that he was suppose to be in it. I am sure they are rolling over in their graves as they watch how far this country has strayed from what they fought so hard to create. "

H. Ramirez wrote on Jul 6, 2008 4:28 PM:

" This is going to be a repeat of what I wrote a while back. A person either believes in God or does not believe in God. If you do believe in God, then you must believe that the Bible is his Word written by inspired men. If you believe his Word, then you will obey his Word. And if you will obey his Word, then you will become a follower of his Son, Jesus Christ. And if I'm not mistaken, He said His followers are to love sinners, not sin. So, I love the gay person, and the lesbian, and the bi-sexual, and the transvestite. But, I don't love what they do as such. The Bible, God's Word, says that there is nothing that can separate us from his love. But, there is one thing which will separate us from him when the time comes. That one thing is going to be...sin. So, the question arises. Do you want to be with God, or would you prefer to be separated from him? Each of us has the same choice. And with God, every choice will have its own consequence. "

O. G. wrote on Jul 6, 2008 5:43 PM:

" America was founded on the pricniples found in the Holy Writ.
The Founding Fathers rightly attributed our rights as citizens a gift from our Creator - and that the whole purpose of government was to guarantee those rights.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams, October 11, 1798
Adams realized over three hundred years ago that the rights of a people would have no value without the recognition that they were imputed to us by a benevolent God who made us in His image. What atheist government has shown such benevolence to it's people? History has shown us that the Chairman Mao's, Pol Pots and Joseph Stalin's of the world simply confirm John Adams' words. God Bless America! "

Not so fast wrote on Jul 7, 2008 12:16 AM:

" So. I get it. Heaven will be a pretty empty place. Jimmy Swaggert (adulterer), Ted Haggard (Homosexual), Benny Hinn (swindler), George Bush (drunkard), Jimmy Carter (covetous) and MANY more won't be there. I venture to say that some that post in support of Ms. Azevedo won't be either. Had a divorce? Try to keep up with the Jones's? Worshipped in the temple of money? Then you don't get the magic ticket punched.

I believe in God, and Christ. Go to church regularly, and act as a faithful man. I also believe that God is just and loving. NOT the fire and brimstone of the old testament, but the accepting God of the new testament. That is why, I, as a gay man feel the love of Christ. And his forgivemess.

Oh, and a few corrections. it is Gay Lesbian Bisexual and TRANSGENDER Watchdog Fred. NOT transvestites. And those who believe go to GREAT lengths to show THEY are correct. Just look at the "Intelligent Design" (really creationism) discussion for that. "

Not so fast wrote on Jul 7, 2008 12:25 AM:

" I truly find it amazing that people will condemn others so readily.

Based on the discussion here, the ONLY people who will be in Heaven are the Christians. And of those, most think that ONLY if you believe the way THEY do will you be there. Well what about the Cristians who don't believe EXACTLY as you do?

I know...the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. But FAR too many religions and sects of religions think they are the ONLY ones who are correct and all else are incorrect. I am not so quick to condemn over half the population of the world to hell. Only God can do that.

Mostly these religious zealots use 3 basic principles in their discussions. Fear, shame and guilt. All are shown in Ms. Azevedo's missive. And they are supported in most of the "believer's" posts as well.

Don't be so quick to cast judgement. As Christ himself said, "let he who is WITHOUT sin cast the first stone." "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 7, 2008 5:18 AM:

" Melissa,
Your example has already happened what do you think the twin towers, pentagon and such was all about. The radical Muslim faith was rearing it's evil head and demonstrating to us what a demon they truly can be. The true faith of Muslim does not allow such cowardly deeds. They respect life they don't take life. These are the radical, bad apples of a faith gone arye who do these things.
So don't ask us how we would like it if it happened it already has and we didn't like it one bit. There is a diference between a Christian quoting scripture and a plane crashing into two towers and killing in excess of 3,000 + people, don't you think? "

O. G. wrote on Jul 7, 2008 9:11 AM:

" Now that I've read what ignorant people say about the Bible and its God, here is what some really intelligent people said:
"The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed." --Patrick Henry
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." --George Washington
"I have always said that a studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands." --Thomas Jefferson.
"It is impossible to enslave mentally or socially a Bible-reading people. The principles of the Bible are the groundwork of human freedom." -- Horace Greeley
""That book, sir, is the rock on which our republic rests." - Andrew Jackson
If there is anything in my thoughts or style to commend, the credit is due to my parents for instilling in me an early love of the Scriptures. If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instructions and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity." - Daniel Webster "

Sinclair Lewis wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:11 AM:

" When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross "

dose wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:42 AM:

" Why don't christians understand that not everyone believes in their god or in their version of heaven and hell. I for one do not belive that god is going to judge me according to laws that are in the bible, for one thing the bible was written by men and there is no legitimate evidience that it is gods word. If you people want to live in a country controlled by god you should move to Iran I'm sure you all would be much happier there. All of their laws are based on religion and look at how good their country is doing right now.

Also many of you christians are hypocrites I have not heard a single one of you call for the stoning of unruly children which according to deuteronomy is gods law. If you are going to preach to us atleast try to practice what you preach. "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:59 AM:

" To dose.... it's not so much our marriages that we are worried about protecting. (at least mine I feel is a pretty sure thing) It's the marriages of our children and our children's children's, and so on. Marriage has been defined not only by God as between a man and a woman but also by most state consitutions. That's what we are trying to save. "

jeff wrote on Jul 7, 2008 11:24 AM:

" George Washington never said "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." Go and read Washington’s farewell address or his official proclamation and you will note the absence of this quote in each.

“Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.” Thomas Jefferson

“I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.” Thomas Jefferson

“The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.” John Adams "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jul 7, 2008 11:29 AM:

" Now that I have settled on a name rather than using To "name" which many people can use and it confuses everyone. Now to Billy Buck, the Bible has been cleaned up some, your reference to a woman and her period may not actually just mean touching, just like people might ask do you know a woman or do you know her Biblically? To Not So Fast, many of my posts in other similar subjects have stated that I believe myself to be Christian but that I hope that heaven is for those people of action not words, regardless of religious belief. I have never stated my religion is better than anyone else's. Where does everyone come up with the idea that divorce is a sin? I thought that I have read passages where Jesus is quoted as saying something about giving a divorce to a woman. In regards to slavery, the Bible is not against it, but you treat your slaves with humility, and the Caucasian race is the not only people to have slaves. Social norms now prohibit slavery in our country, but not the whole world. "

Experienced wrote on Jul 7, 2008 12:25 PM:

" The bible also says that those who are dying will not understand spirtual things.
Did you ever consider that the mystries of the kingdom might be that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and if you do not accept him, then you will not understand??

What if you are wrong...???

I can tell you from experience that it took me to accept Jesus first into my heart then seek him before the bible came alive...

Do you think that maybe that is we call it a living bible...

Do you think that God communicates spiritually???

Could you be wrong???? To those who do not believe...

Have you asked yourself??? "

Angie wrote on Jul 7, 2008 12:54 PM:

" You people talk about not forcing my opinion on you but you gays and lesbians force your opinion on me. You don't even care about that either just as long as your rights aren't violated who cares about mine. Oh, and God is real and the Bible is the definite Word of God. Those of you who believe otherwise really need to ask God to reveal Himself to you. Just try it. Better safe than sorry. "

dose wrote on Jul 7, 2008 3:43 PM:

" To Not so mad in Nevada:

How does gay marriage affect your children? If they are not gay then they don't have to marry a gay person. I don't know if you realize this but nobody is trying to make gay marriage mandatory for anybody. Your children would be able to marry whomever they choose.

To Angie:

How is gay marriage infringing on your rights no one is trying to make you get a gay marriage. Allowing gay people to marry does not affect you that is why your rights are not part of the equation, you still have the right to believe it is wrong. But you do not have the right to tell other people who they can and can't marry. Also if you christians weren't such hypocrites when it comes to your religion you might have more credibility. "

O. G. wrote on Jul 7, 2008 5:53 PM:

" It's not rocket science to see that this nation was founded on faith in the God of the Bible. All you have to do is read the lyrics to the songs written about America. Last stanza of National Anthem:
"O, thus be it ever when freemen shall stand,
Between their lov'd homes and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us as a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause. it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!"
- Francis Scott Key
"America the Beautiful has these lines: Six times in the song you'll read: America! America! God shed his grace on thee" and other statements like these.
"America! America! God mend thine every flaw,"
"America! America! May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness And every gain divine!" God is in the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and every State Constitution in America. "

Guy wrote on Jul 7, 2008 8:04 PM:

" "dose wrote' tell me how this affects your life personally if your a christian. None of us said it would affect our lives. Its all about the people of California had a vote it banned Gay Marriage. Than the justices went behind your backs and allowed Gay marriage. its a matter of principle and whats fair. Also Marriage is a holy it is sacred Sex is a gift from God. Sex is best between a man and a woman PERIOD NO Ifs no ands no Buts. God is our creator he is the potter we are the clay. No compromises. I aplaud you Alice for having the courage and faith to write this article. I thank the Hanford Sentinel for bringing important information to life. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 7, 2008 8:54 PM:

" Jeff - you quote Thomas Jefferson without prefessing that Thomas Jefferson was the number one and first celebrity to announce he was an Aheist of course you are gonna quote him. In fact you can got to Celebrity Atheist.com and he is listed along with many others I note that you often quote like their disbelief is any more important to us Christians than yours is. Neither hold much water with us, but we do not practice to deceive you by using Roseanne Barr's Judisim against you. You think you are so clever when in fact you are like a see through piece of plexi-glass although you may block some wind your really not very informative.
You spew a lot of venom and speak as though you know the doctrine but quite obviously you tuned into a net that carries scripture and like many who do not understand the Bible you pick and choose versus you can make work for you and ignore the rest. That isn't what a Christian does or is all about, that's why I try not using the Bible in my arguments because I am a mere mortal and accept that. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 7, 2008 9:00 PM:

" Jeff - perhaps if you won't so anti-everything you might have a different view of a lot of things. I don't know who the first one was to take a crap in your wheaties, but evidently it has had a lasting effect on you.
How anyone can look at all the beauty around us and think that it just evolved, like the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Yellowstone. Then when you consider the advancements in medicine and believe mere mortal men discovered antidotes and anti-venoms and discovered miracle drugs not to mention the development of surgeries, stent placement, heart valve replacement, heart replacement and you wish to thank those in Science for those miracles. Someone guided them just like I am being guided through my existance and that is how those achievements were discovered and made reality with the guidance and prayers answered by the Lord Jesus himself. If you are too naive to believe that, then that is on you Jeff and no one else, you can't blame your parents, you can't blame your friends that decision you are solely responsible for making. "

Tony C. wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:43 PM:

" This is the reason gay marriage foes will lose in November, the bible thumping crowd will sink their own ship! California is a fairly liberal state, the conservative Central Valley is trumped everytime by Los Angeles and San Francisco! So all you perfect " christians" go ahead and spew your anti gay venom over and over again and we'll see who wins! "

howieh wrote on Jul 8, 2008 6:53 AM:

" The Bible also tells us that God spoke to Peter and said "Do not call unclean, what I have made clean." From that statement both Peter and subsequent Christians learned that God made everything and everyone (Jew and Gentile) and despite what WE may want to believe, God tells us HE"S in charge and HE accepts everyone that HE has made whether they are homosexual or not when they accept HIM! "

dose wrote on Jul 8, 2008 9:21 AM:

" To Not so mad in Nevada:

Well I fail to see how gay mariage is going to affect your children, they will still be allowed to marry whomever they want too. And if one of them happens to be gay they would be allowed to get married.

To Angie:

Your entire argument makes no sense no one is infringing on your rights, you are allowed to believe gay marriage is wrong. You are not allowed to dictate to other people who they can love.As Oliver Wendell Homes said "Your right to throw your fist in the air ends at the other mans nose." "

J wrote on Jul 8, 2008 10:45 AM:

" God created man and woman and his commandment be fruitful and become many. (Gen 1:28) As for Billy Buck, The Law that God instituted to the Israelites was a forshadow of what Jesus would do in forgiveness of sin. They needed a Savior and it was a constant reminder that they could not govern themselves and they needed God. Jesus' Ransom did away with The Law, otherwise we would still be sacrificing animals at the altar as a Ransom for our sins. (Ephesians 2:15) Alice is correct in quoting 1 Cor 6:9, 10 read on to verse 11 it says "And yet that is what some of you WERE." so if we turn away from doing bad that is what "declares us righteous". Read 2 Timothy 3:1-4 "But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money ...lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power." Finally 2 Timothy 3:16, 17, "All Scriptures is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight.." "

Experienced wrote on Jul 8, 2008 12:18 PM:

" You are right.. he does accept everyone...
Everyone who accepts him...
And in SOME cases he touches people who do not accept him....

He is GOD...

Lord Bless all of you believing and unbelieving...

He is the final judge... We as believers are called to give our testimony... "

jeff wrote on Jul 8, 2008 5:10 PM:

" Fred, Thomas Jefferson was not an Atheist he was a Deist, there is a huge difference. Again history has eluded you. Did you know that Jefferson even wrote his own Bible? I’m not sure what your claims about me blaming people means? Where did you get this notion that I am blaming anyone for anything? I’m sorry you are unequipped to make your own decisions and you need a manual to live your life but you shouldn’t be so jealous of me because I don’t.

For the rest of you, who keep reciting Bible verses, just stop it already. The only people reading that and thinking that you’re right are people who already agreed with you in the first place. It is a waste of time and does nothing to make the rest of us agree with you, in fact it makes most of us more positive we are in the right. I know, I know you are well within your rights to say what you want, that is not my point and any “somewhat” intelligent individual would get that. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 5:24 AM:

" Jeff - I think the blogger would disagree with you, you are quite angry at someone or something, it's so evident in your every post. If you refer to the Bible as a guide for my life, I am proud of that fact. Your ignorance abounds when you make comments about not needing a book even true atheist have their own doctrine, so perhaps you are just a sham in the closet atheist?
Positive Atheism's Big List of
Thomas Jefferson
Quotations


Thomas Jefferson on
Religion and Liberty
compliments of wikepedia. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 5:36 AM:

" Jeff - this is a quote by Tim LaHaye perhaps you have your countries confused:

Why not admit that the words "separation" and "church" do not even appear in the US Constitution," he added. "Instead, they do appear in Article 52 of the Constitution of the Soviet Union.
Atheists are the true criminals of society.
-- Robert T Lee, on his web site, <www.tencommandments.org "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 5:38 AM:

" Jeff - here is your problem, I singled you out and accused you of this already and I'll be darn if it isn't in print regarding your religous views as an Ahteist:
Since atheists rejects the overwhelming evidence, we see proof that atheism is a deliberate rejection of the evidence and His existence. This clearly proves that atheism is not about proof and evidence, but is about rejecting the fundamental principles of life. Atheism's chief purpose of existence is to deny the existence of God in the midst of overwhelming proof. No atheist will admit these facts. But again, this is the nature of satanic atheism: to refuse to admit the truth.

This deffinition fits you to a T so congratulations on following your atheistic ways Jeff, you accept no truth except that written by your own hand. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 5:43 AM:

" Jeff another little quote from the Pope Leo XIIIof 1888 which was translated in 1948:
If unbridled licence of speech and writing be granted to all, nothing will remain sacred and inviolate; even the highest and truest mandates of nature, justly held to be the common and noblest heritage of the human race, will not be spared. Thus, truth being gradually obscured by darkness, pernicious and manifold error, as too often happens, will easily prevail.
-- Leo XIII, Encyclical letter of 20 June 1888, translated by John A Ryan and Francis J Boland in Catholic Principles of Politics (New York, 1948, p. 174).

Men of the cloth knew back then what was to befall us, how do you explain that Jeff? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 5:46 AM:

" Jeff once again the Bold Democrat speaks his mind:
The Constitution promises freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. We are, after all not just another nation, but "one nation under God."
-- Joseph Lieberman, campaign speech at Notre Dame University on October 24, 2000, quoted from American Atheists, "Lieberman Again Claims 'No Freedom from Religion' in Notre Dame Address: Cites Judeo-Christian Roots of America" "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 6:15 AM:

" Jeff since I've never heard the fact that Jefferson wrote his own Bible it must not have been widely accepted by other believers, correct?
Thomas Jefferson was a power hungry man who contributed to the declaration of independence and never actually wrote it himself. Also he never again wrote anything of significance as far as the Government of the United States is concerned. So he isn't the hero as portrayed in the History Books taught to our children, now is he? "

Melissa wrote on Jul 9, 2008 6:33 AM:

" Oh Watchdog...The Muslims didn't attack us..some crazy extremist group did. I actually prefer the muslims to christians at this point in my life. I don't hear them spouting off scripture.

You know I once gave a 'sermon' on missionary work. I was the guest speaker one night. My main point was no one would come to Christ through fear, but through actions. I heard this joke " what do people miss by being christians?" ...hell...yeah pretty funny right? but if a person is not a believer the joke won't work...Jesus gained popularity through his actions...
Personally I don't know if there's a heaven or a hell I am a doubting Thomas...I believe that after this life I will be rewarded with how I treated people. Karma... "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 9:03 AM:

" Jeff - you finally did it you admitted you were SORRY! That has been my point all along. "

Charles wrote on Jul 9, 2008 10:38 AM:

" Listen people, I feel gays are wrong and confused just as much as christians, but it is their choice to do what they want. I am not a religious bible thumper who goes out and preach my views on other people to make them feel that they are wrong and that they will burn in hell. I don't go out and tell people that they have to be straight either. The problem is that people in this country can't learn to accept that people have different views and are entitled to them. The anti gays want to change the marriage laws the pro gays want to be able to get married and I don't really care either way. Since I am not religious, I don't care about who gets married. I do think the equation man and women fits. Bottom line, I dont agree with homosexual lifestyle nor do I agree with alot of hypocritical man made christians or any religious beliefs out there. "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 9, 2008 2:18 PM:

" Rufus, the 13th apostle, (who claims, incidentally, that he isn't in the Bible because he's black) speaking with Bethany Sloan, the last scion. (Dogma, 1999)

Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the sh!# that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should be malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 2:21 PM:

" Charles you are somewhat like Jeff, you have no confirmed feelings about anything but rather as an afterthought to your unopionated comments.
Neither of you respect the holy sanctity of what marriage means to the men and women of this world who entered into it. Those vows were drawn for a man and a woman to have and to hold until death do they part. People on here throw Divorce around like it is a dirty word, but yet it is a legal and ethical way to end matrimony and has been over time, not just invented to tick you guys off.
You have all proven what I said in the very beginning this is about much more than rights and privileges for the gay and lesbian community. They take an inch and want a mile, then run back regroup and now they want the entire enchilada, rice and beans combination plate hoisted and reverred in our ugly faces. Bullcrap, we have rights too, and you are trouncing all over those rights to proclaim yours are more worthwhile when in reality they have been forbidden throughout all of time and the existance of man and woman. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 2:27 PM:

" You are already rewriting the Marriage License to accomodate you that isn't the same as when the white water fountain and the black water fountain became as one and you had a choice which one to drink from. You didn't eliminate a drinking fountain you eliminated a sign excluding black people from using it. You still kept and operated two very good drinking fountains.
When women were given the right to vote the ballots weren't re-written to accomodate them they simply had the right to vote and fill one out.
What you are asking society to do for you is rewrite thousands of years of history and make changes that for many people's religous beliefs are not acceptable. So who truly is being asked to give up what? We can add your name to an insurance policy, that isn't a problem, we can document your right to make medical desicions on behalf of your partner, we can make provisions on tax returns to give you more write offs and we can indoctrinate people to accept you as parents of a child, in most instances we already have Why must you need to rewrite our lives? "

jeff wrote on Jul 9, 2008 2:38 PM:

" Fred, just because Robert T Lee says something does not make it fact it just makes it his opinion. What overwhelming evidence is there that god exists? The bible being written is not proof, if that were so then every other religious text in existence would prove its corresponding god or gods to be real. Your statement from the pope really just says it’s dangerous to let people think and write, it’s another way of saying that oppression is a good idea. If what he is suggesting was put into practice you would not be allowed to comment on this site and only religious leaders cold write newspapers. I am already very aware that the Constitution does not contain the words separation of church and state. This fact has been discussed several times on these forums. I’m surprised this is news to you. It was however recognized by the Supreme Court after Thomas Jefferson wrote about it. Freedom of Religion means that we will have no government sanctioned religion. Thomas Jefferson was not a power hungry man and how can you even make this claim? It’s blatantly obvious from our discussion that you know almost nothing about him. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jul 9, 2008 2:55 PM:

" To Melissa, if you prefer Muslims then you should go to the website www.arabnews.com to see how "little" scripture is reported in their newspaper. There have been many people offended in the Middle East because the newspaper would have passages of the Quran printed on it and people would use the paper to line the bottom of bird cages, to them this was sacraligious (spelling?). If we followed the ways of the Wahadi's (not necessarily extremist, but rather the majority of Saudi's), you couldn't drive, you would need to be covered in black from wrist to head to ankle, but if you want to be a really good wife you would cover every inch of skin. I don't know your age, but do you know that Saudi women are not allowed to travel without a muharam? This could be a 2 year old son, he could give you permission to travel, but you would not be able to travel without such permission. Is this really the teachings of the Quran or more social norms? I don't know, as I ony experienced the lifestyle but did not accept their form of religion. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 3:23 PM:

" Jeff - glad you said I didn't know anything about your master Thomas Jefferson the slave owner:
Jefferson married Martha Wayles Skelton, a widow, in 1772. She died in 1782, at the age of 33... Jefferson and his wife had one son and five daughters; only two of his children lived to see him become president... DNA tests in 1998 showed that Jefferson may well have fathered a child or children by one of his slaves, Sally Hemings.. Were you aware of this little tid-bit there Jeffrey?
How dare you claim now that you knew all along that separation of church and state wasn't in the constitution, when this all started over you telling me Prayer was not allowed in the Senate and Congress by constitutional law? Have you forgot those statements, do I need to start printing all your posts so that later I can scan them and post them back for you. Is your mind so nimble it forgets so quickly?. As for not accepting quotes it just points to your atheist character of not accepting the truth nor the ability to tell it. You shine as an example of ideology! "

jeff wrote on Jul 9, 2008 4:00 PM:

" Fred, George Washington was a slave owner do you hold contempt for him too. He was also most likely not a Christian. I fail to understand the course you are taking with the separation of church and state here. I have not been deceitful in anyway and I think your lack of understanding is what is confusing you. I have never stated that the words separation of church and state appear in the Constitution. By all means please feel free to print all my comments so you can then scan them in case you need to post them back here. I do stand behind the words you have put in my mouth. The Constitution does not allow for prayer in Congress (The Senate is part of Congress FYI). Why would any thinking being simply accept the word of another person without researching the validity of their claims? If you are so accepting of other people’s word then why do you not believe me when I tell you god does not exist? Is it your atheistic ways coming out? You need to realize that just because you quote something does not make it true. Anything is quotable, fact or fiction. "

dose wrote on Jul 9, 2008 4:47 PM:

" To Gus:

Well you are atleast right about one thing the ban on gay marriage was voted in by citizens and was overturned by the courts. That does not make it wrong or illegal. courts routinely overturn laws and verdicts that are deemed to be unconstitutional. If we were going to allow voters to decide everything segregation and slavery would still be legal and. Thankfully we have courts who interpret our constitution so that all of our citizens are free to enjoy the rights given to them by the founders. It is ridiculous to say that marriage was given to us by god, has god ever married anyone that you know. Marriage is a device invented by mankind originally to keep women in line. God has nothing to do with marriage. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 11:15 PM:

" Jeff - you further make my point yet you don't understand doing so. We were discussing opreessed people and our forefathers opressed the slaves for years after this country was founded, why because it was an accepted practice. You keep saying you are in the battle for opression but quote monsters in the past who were the most flagrant offenders of this in our history. That is my point about you not conceiving that opression is nothing new, this isn't something we straight people put upon gay people in recent history. Down through time their behavior has not been considered acceptable it didn't just start with me and my generation. Like it or not there was history before George Washiongton and for the best account of that you must read the Bible. Jeff you amaze me, people down through history have used the Bible as a teaching device, but more than that they have kept track of births, long before the county clerks office ever did, they kept track of marriages, they lent information that today people utitlize to research their own family trees. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 11:20 PM:

" Jeff - although I don't know why I am telling you these things because if your entire family are atheist which I suspect you have no way of verifying what I said regarding births and marriages. You see most Christians are proud of their heritage and document it for future siblings and future generations to see and learn from so they have a clearer understanding of where they came from. What there family crest should they have one stood for and what part in history their ancestors played. But if you don't believe in anything that you can't reach out and touch or feel then you can't accept a generation caring enough about another generation to record this information for their own posterity.
As far as quoting stuff you were the first to engage in that activity with your Bible quotes you randomly select while ignoring the rest that might not give countenance to your argument. But you are wrong anyone can't just paste anything or someone lacking in character would be reuired to do such a thing, I try not to quote without first giving credit for the source. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 11:26 PM:

" Jeff - what you need to do is realize if you want to have friends in this world, you need to develop a trust of people. You can't keep questioning your friends and families motives for something, you must realize not all people are going to lie to you as many surely have done in your past for you to feel so untrusting and insecure about data and facts. Not everyone is out to get you Jeff, you can relax that paranoia parachute just a little bit. Have you been taught atheism by your family, is that why you are so dogmatic in your thoughts regarding fact vs fiction. I don't have to prove to you that God exists, as long as he exists in my heart it doesn't matter what you think or feel. Better yet how about you prove to me he doesn't exist, which I assure you is a much harder task. Even a non-bliever such as yourself is not good enough to run a scam for hundreds of years and pass it off as creation and backed by the Bible, so what makes you think anyone else can? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 9, 2008 11:32 PM:

" Jeff - you doubters all amaze me, you don't believe in Christmas but take an annual bonus and call it an annual bonus when everyone else refers to it as a Christmas Bonus. You belly ache that our money says In God We Trust but yet atheist can't get enough of it to hord and spend. You don't want prayer or the pledge of allegiance said in our school system, yet you are the first to sign up your child for a free public education. You are so naive to think that a country founded in the name of God wouldn't have prayer in it's two houses of representatives, because you thought it illegal because of the term church and state. John McCain himself stated it is separation of church and state, not separation of God and religion from our government. What is so hard for you to see in understanding that people can believe in the God Almighty and still govern our country. Can't you chew bubble gum and walk at the same time? Well some of us can and we wish too, so get over it, already! "

Melissa wrote on Jul 10, 2008 3:07 AM:

" Not Home grown, my age doesn't matter. Knowledge comes from experiences, not age. I do not have a huge problem with Muslim lifestyle, to each his own, as my mother would say. I infact am a stay at home mom and sometimes hating the feminist beccause I feel they lessened the value of staying home to care for the family.
My point is that no one can say the Holy Bible is the absolute truth or any other religious belief. I assume that is the reason that religion is one of those three things you don't talk about. There is no peace in religion. So why shove a religious belief into one's life?
I was watching something about the bible on TV the other day...they talked about a question that has no answer in the bible...if Adam and Eve only had sons...how did the world become populated? I'd rather sleep with a female than my mother... "

PJ wrote on Jul 10, 2008 7:51 AM:

" "Jeff - you doubters all amaze me, you don't believe in Christmas but take an annual bonus and call it an annual bonus when everyone else refers to it as a Christmas Bonus."

Fred for one I"m a conservitative republican and an atheist. Just thought I would put that out there. Anyhow the quote above. Atheist like you try to say are not against god. Thats why we can take part in many things. I still get dragged to church by friend but I get dragged to all kinds of churches not just christian. I don't mind religion I just don't want anyone telling anyone else or myself that we have to live by the bibles rules. You live by them I'll live by my internal rules that I have come to find true.

I don't need the bible or god to tell me not to kill I don't even need man's law to tell me not to kill. I have respect for life and fellow humans all without god and bible. "

PJ wrote on Jul 10, 2008 7:55 AM:

" Back to the conservative - atheist thing. Its funny when you look at the conservative republican, they are against less government, less laws restricting civil liberties "unless" its dealing with christian religion. Then they become bleeding heart liberals. I find it very ironic. The ble

I'm very conservative when it comes to less government and laws and social programs. Yet take away any religous beliefs and that almost moves me out of the republican party because so much of there platform is fueled by religion.

I still vote republican for the most part fyi. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 10, 2008 8:59 AM:

" To PJ it's funny you get dragged to church! Do they have a collar a leash on you and they hook it up and drag you down the aisle to your assigned seat or what? If you are being dragged anywhere and you are an adult, I can hardly feel for you, if you are still a child there are laws against that dragging stuff.
You see you have me pegged wrong too, because I have read the Bible and although I've been baptixed in a certain religion, I don't attend that church. The reason being I read in the bible that whereever three or more shall gather I will listen. No where in that statement does it say in a Church, around a Church or on top of a Church. So I practice my religion at home with my family and the Bible and God. So don't think you have me nailed as locked into any set religous caregory or pattern. My platforms my teachings are self taught with the help of God, my grandfather also believed as I do, that the affiliation of a Church does not make you anymore Christian. "

jeff wrote on Jul 10, 2008 9:22 AM:

" Fred, so you are saying that just because people have been oppressed in the past we should just keep on doing it? You have never brought up any point about oppression not being new. You and I both know this is something you just thought of. The bible is the worst history book ever written, even church historians admit to this. What does keeping tracks of births have to do with the bible? Most Christians document their heritage? What are you talking about? I happen to have a family crest as well and still do not believe in god, wow isn’t that amazing? Are you simple, if I am pasting verses from the bible that is crediting my source, or do you not know who wrote the bible? You already went through your spiel of not trusting anyone and needing friends, it is old and tired try something else. Why are you obsessed with this anyways? Your ignorance on many subjects is astounding. The fact that you chose to remain so hebetudinous is evidence of your lack of credibility. No, I was not taught Atheism by my family. "

jeff wrote on Jul 10, 2008 9:22 AM:

" Fred, why wouldn’t I take an annual bonus? If you want to incorrectly call it a Christmas bonus go ahead. You’re right, money should not include ‘In God We Trust’ and there was a time when it didn’t. Money was not created this way, evidence of christians trying to force themselves on the masses. I never said I didn’t want the pledge of allegiance in school, again it is your ability to understand English that is impairing you. I think the words ‘under god’ should be removed. The pledge of allegiance was not written with those words in it, even more evidence of Christians forcing their values on the rest of us. This country was not founded in the name of god, that is a fallacy. Stop lying already, I never said that separation of church and state was the reason. It is A reason but there are hosts of others. Having any prayer in our government is –according to the documents this country was founded on – and should be outlawed. “Can I walk and chew gum?” When you act like a child Fred people are going to treat you as such. "

Charles wrote on Jul 10, 2008 9:51 AM:

" Fred, you feel real strong about your beliefs and I commend that. I think some of you christians out there forget that we live in the United States of America. I have the right to my beliefs and you have the right to yours. Your god says divorce should avoided at all costs so it is kind of a dirty word and I am not the one disrespecting the holy sanctity of marriage, what about the majority of marriages ending in divorce that seems to be more disrespectful. How are gays being married disrespecting your rights Fred? No I don't feel my opinions or beliefs are more worthwhile then yours I just choose to live my life quote "MY LIFE" by my beliefs and this great country allows me to do that. I don't get alot of christian folks who say that they love this country and the freedoms but when one expresses them they are completely chastised for it. Now to all the christians, look at history and religious ran governments and see what has happened and remember why we live in America. watch the news and see religious differences that end in violence, but im wrong. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jul 10, 2008 10:19 AM:

" To Melissa,
I agree with you about cramming a person's religion down your throat, I would rather have my interest in a religion based upon my or others actions rather than words. I have been to many places on this planet and have always tried to be the diplomat of decency, and hope that people see my actions as kind and caring, rather than boasting and bragging. As regards to your age, I was not trying to find it out, but rather to make a point and your reply helped, since you stated you are a stay at home mom, so is my wife fortunately, wished that there could be more. The point I was trying to make about Islam, is that you couldn't travel to grocery store on your own, but if your young son accompanied you, then it would be okay. Islam is definitely a male empowered religion though it preaches equality between the sexes. As far as Adam and Eve's children are concerned there was not incets, don't quote me, but I recall something about they went to the land of Nod to get wives. "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 10, 2008 12:47 PM:

" To NotHomeGrown - and where did these wives in the land of Nod come from that Cain went to get? If Adam and Eve were the first man and woman and we all descended from those two, as the Bible says, where did the Nod-ians (Nod-ites? Nod-offs?) come from? It's little details like this that make one say "hmmmmm..." when it comes to the Bible. Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian. But I can't ignore that this is either a glaring error, something important was left out (which I pretty much believe is the case) or perhaps we aren't supposed to take the Bible literally, letter-for-letter, word-for-word, maybe it's supposed to be more of a guide - a PERSONAL guide. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jul 10, 2008 1:40 PM:

" To BJMallory,
I agree with you, I was just trying to respond to Melissa what I thought the Bible stated. I am no expert in the matter. To respond to your question, I don't know if God created more people after Adam and Eve sinned. I keep trying to say, and appears that everyone keeps overlooking what I keep saying, I try to promote my belief by my actions not my words. I would rather be known as a kind person that treats all people the same, rather than someone that forces my religious beliefs on you. This may seem contradictory to my dissent for gay marriage. I am all for live and let live, but they don't need to mangle the meaning of marriage just for their own satisfaction. Give them the same health benefits, inheritance etc, but don't change the worlds definition of marriage just for them. "

femfem wrote on Jul 10, 2008 2:19 PM:

" Hey Ms. Azevedo: Do you think it's ok how the bible mentions the subject of slavery and it's ok to "own" another human being? Or how about how Job (I'm pretty sure it was from the Book Of Job) and how his daughters got him drunk to have sex with him? I'm sorry but that kinda stuff is pretty sickening and it's suppossed to be "The Good Book"? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 10, 2008 2:39 PM:

" Jeff - your explanation is the same as a Jehovia Witness, I use to work with, isn't that coincidential. Yet you profess no religion. You have no belief in it. I can't imagine living a year of my life without the Christian Holidays in my life, I love them one and all. Perhaps what we need to do is let the Atheist work all the religous holidays since they don't believe in anything and let all the Christians, Jews, Islamics and others have the holy holidays off? I knew there was something I liked about your not believing in anything. Plan to work come December and January o.k.? Oh and don't expect any extra money for it, your annual bonus covers that one.
Oh and while you are at it, you don't need a sabbath so you can now work seven days aweek with no problem at all, right? Yeah there is a bright side to all this fellow Christians we just haven't been looking for it until Jeff gave us a reason. So remember that at all your places of employment and make sure you are off this year. "

dose wrote on Jul 10, 2008 3:01 PM:

" To Watchdog Fred:

So let me get this straight are you saying you work 24hrs a day 6 days a week, since only Sunday is god's day of rest. Wow you must make a fortune in overtime. "

jeff wrote on Jul 10, 2008 3:12 PM:

" Great response Dose "

Dandre wrote on Jul 10, 2008 3:13 PM:

" Alice, you do realize that you are a 'reviler' and as such are equally 'guilty' of all the sins that have been committed by those that you revile..... "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 10, 2008 3:25 PM:

" To dose' I've made more money in a year than you will probably make in a lifetime, what does that have to do with anything? You could have lived for a few months on my Christmas Bonus each year. What does that have to do with anything. Managers normally work six to seven days a week on salary, but I was smart enough to tie in some commision for new business and a yearly bonus, isn't everyone? But I also brought my last company 1.5 million dollars in new business the first year I was there, too. When you can deliver like that, you can name your own price. You see when you are in sales and you provide a level of service no one else provides and do it on a regular basis when you move so do your customers. That is what makes a truly good salesman, I owed my loyalty to that customer base not to my employer. As long as you have customers you have a job, widgets can be made by anyone. It's the level of service that comes with them that determines how many sell. "

dose wrote on Jul 10, 2008 4:08 PM:

" To WacthdogFred:

Wow that was quite a rant for someone who is avoiding the question.

To Jeff:

Thank You. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 11, 2008 1:37 PM:

" dose - do you think everyone has a single shift eight hour job all their lives dose' no wonder you can't get ahead. With that attitude you'll make meager wages, have a meager life and end up with only meager memories of how you lived it. But to each his own, I was always one who wanted just a little more than a paycheck and was willing to sacrifice to reach my goals. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 11, 2008 1:45 PM:

" dose' all that the name emplies! "

dose wrote on Jul 11, 2008 2:14 PM:

" So Fred are you saying that you only take Sundays off for the sabbath, and work 24hrs a day 6 days a week. Because that is what you implied by saying only Christians desereve to have religious holidays off, and people should be working anytime there isn't a holiday.

And you shouldn't make assumptions about anonymous people you talk to on the internet, you have no idea who you might be offending. "

dose wrote on Jul 11, 2008 2:26 PM:

" Hey everybody did you hear that Wacthdog Fred works 144hrs non-stop every week. Only taking Sunday off to worship his god before starting another 144hr work week. Your right Fred I don't have that kind of work ethic, I thought 50-60 hrs a week was alot. Boy was I wrong, now I know why I am such a failure. Thanks for setting me straight Fred. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jul 11, 2008 4:32 PM:

" dose, dose, dose.

You said;

"...now I know why I am such a failure."

It really must have been very difficult to make that self-disclosure.

I respect you for that.

Please read John 3:16.

It may help. "

FaithHopeCharity wrote on Jul 11, 2008 4:43 PM:

" I am saddened that it has came to what it has came to. It saddens me that He has called us because He loves us. And the anger and rage we hold against a God who gave Himself for us. In 2 Kings 19:27-28 says:
But I know they abode, and thy going out, and thy coming in, and thy rage against me.
Because thy rage against me and thy tumult is come up into mine ears, therefore I will put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest.
Isaiah 53:3 says
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isaiah 53:5 says
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him: and with his stripes we are healed.
So sad that He did this in the name of love. for us! "

dose wrote on Jul 11, 2008 5:17 PM:

" No thanks Alejandro I prefer non-fiction, and I was merely calling myslf a failure in relation to Freds incredible stamina and ability to work non-stop for days on end with no sleep or potty breaks. I am sure you would also fall short in that regard. "

Duane Andre wrote on Jul 11, 2008 6:29 PM:

" FAITH HOPECHA.......is that you fred?
The only anger I feel is towards so called christians who use God to promote their personal 'bigotries' on the rest of us!
You act like the victim when being called out as a bigot but if it talks like a bigot, walks like a bigot and thinks like a bigot, IT'S A BIGOT!
and God didn't have anything to do with it!
If the Bible tells YOU that something is a sin for YOU, then don't do that!
but YOU stay out of MY relationship with God because your rights begin and end at the tip of your nose. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 12, 2008 5:22 AM:

" To dose' you are welcome they say that once you realize a problem and face it head on half the battle to rectifying it has been won.

now I know why I am such a failure. Thanks for setting me straight Fred. " "

O. G. wrote on Jul 12, 2008 6:45 AM:

" McDonalds restaurants has thrown out any pretense of being neutral in the culture war, McDonald's has taken up the rhetoric of gay activists, suggesting those who oppose same-sex marriage (SSM) are motivated by hate. It's not about hiring gays or how gay employees are treated, it's about McDonald's choosing to put the full weight of their corporation behind promoting the gay agenda with a donated $20,000 to the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce in exchange for membership and a seat on the group’s board of directors.
McDonald's CEO Jim Skinner said the company will promote issues they approve.
So will I - no more purchases from McDonalds for me! "

dose wrote on Jul 12, 2008 11:38 AM:

" Oh Freddy.... I am not surprised that you didn't realize I was being sarcastic with your limited understanding of the world you live in.

To O.G.:

Do you know that Mcdonalds also recently donated 50 million dollars to childrens charities. Why do you hate children so much. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 12, 2008 12:53 PM:

" dose' perhaps if your sarcasm had bounds I'd better be able to identify it. Your blogs usually begin and end in a martyrdom of sarcasm as you are the wounded dove of innocence thrust upon your own sword. You can't decide if you are the hunter or the hunted in most instances while you broadcast laim excuses for failure. There are successes in this country and I know that is hard to believe by one who has never had the experience. But this truly is the land of opportunity for those who are willing to make sacrifices to obtain it, most are not, but many have. 50 to 60 hours in many professions doesn't even get the heart started pumping, ie., doctor seeing patients all day leaves work is called back by an emergency, works till dawn day after day after day. You are not willing to sacrifice that much time away from the party you call life. Don't ridicule others who are willing to for the betterment of their families lifestyle. Life isn't all about setting around watching MTV with all your buds while the money train rushes by your window. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 12, 2008 1:00 PM:

" To O.G. did you also know that McDonald's does not purchase a drop of it's beef for their hamburgers in the United States. All the beef in the burgers come from down under in Australia. But where did the Golden Arches get their beginning and who has supported them all these years, the United States buying public, that's who so why shouldn't they give back? They won't buy out beef, but they will take our money at the next window please. Wasn't it McDonald's that experimented with using people from India to handle the takeout orders instead of hiring local residents? Perhaps if you or McDonald's is looking for support perhaps they and you should support the American buying public that it made it's Billion Hamburgers for to begin with, don't you think? McDonald's probably puts more waste into the landfills than any other hamburger chain and a lot of it is styrofoam that never biodegrades. So tell me how good a neighbor is McDonald's? There 100% Beef Patties are 100% Austrailian grown beef. "

O. G. wrote on Jul 12, 2008 2:40 PM:

" To the letter writer who remains anonymous for reasons known only to themselves said, "Do you know that Mcdonalds also recently donated 50 million dollars to childrens charities. Why do you hate children so much. "
To the writer, who apparently wishes to remain anonymous (and with such ignorant assertions I don't blame them) this statement reeks of the same calumny that McDonalds has become involved in.
The only hate I see is coming from the gay community towards the straight community and their supporters. As for my family, we will never yield to their (and your) sick attempta to vilify and stereotype people who disagree with the gay agenda.
Now as a consumer, my family and I will no longer visit any of McDonalds establishments or purchase any of their products until such time McDonald's board members remove CEO Jim Skinner and withdraw their corporate support from the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce. "

dose wrote on Jul 13, 2008 11:15 AM:

" To Lapdog Freddie:

Well the first part of your reply to me is so nonsensical I'm just going to ignore it. Secondly my life is just fine I am doing very well for myself and I don't even work 40hrs a week. There are no jobs in this world that will let an employee pull a 144hr work week. Your claim that you work that much only helps to reinforce that you are a liar. "

dose wrote on Jul 13, 2008 11:19 AM:

" To O.G.:

Your claim that I didn't use a name when I was posting to you only reinforces your poor reading comprehension skills, since my name is clearly at the top of the post. As for McDonalds goes; I'm sure they are shaking in their boots at the thought of losing your business. But they don't have to worry because I will help them out by eating there more often. Especially now since I know I won't have to dine with a bunch of religous fundamentalist bigots. "

Dandre wrote on Jul 13, 2008 2:28 PM:

" So fred, with all of your ranting about how much 'God is in your life' and 'how much money you made', think you'll fit 'through the eye of a needle'?
Or have you just not got to that part of what Jesus had to say about the rich...... "

dose wrote on Jul 13, 2008 3:05 PM:

" For all of you considering boycotting McDonalds for supporting homosexuals here is a list of other companies that also are trying to impose the gay agenda on to you. Sears, Kohls, KMart, Target, Old Navy, IKEA, Burger King, Carls JR, 7-11, Procter & Gamble, and Kraft. So have fun making all your own clothes furniture and food from now on. Since there really isn't any place you can shop that doesn't support gay people. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 13, 2008 4:43 PM:

" dose' once again your ignorance is bliss, if you look up hours worked and overtime for a magement employee you will find if they are a male there is no restrictions on hours worked or compensation for it. Rite-aide did get in trouble because they had their assistant managers punch a time clock but did not pay them overtime. But where I worked all those hours management was not even able to punch a time clock for that very reason. No proof no compensation, but I was o.k. with it because like I said I was paid in other authorized and legal ways for the time I put in, and you have clearly never managed a distribution network or you would know there are no such things of too many hours. But I am now retired and don't work those long arduous days and hours any longer. I think you have me confused with your own image, I am no one's lap dog, attack dog maybe, but not lap dog. There's nothing wrong with my trigger finger, or my aim. I qualified expert four times in my lifetime. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 13, 2008 4:55 PM:

" I wonder O. G. how much do you think a dishwasher makes now a days $8.26 and hour maybe. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 13, 2008 5:02 PM:

" Lapdog says: Woof Woof! If this guy wasn't so hilarious I'd pitty him. The word adolescence can be fouond in Wikepedia dose. I know it is a big word that puppies may not comprehend, wonder if he's house broken yet? Tee Hee!
I wonder if he's ever been interrupted playing by someone spraying him with a water hose?
Anyway nice try but you have to get up pretty early in the morning to teach this dawg new tricks. Especially when you haven't learned them yourself yet! "

O. G. wrote on Jul 13, 2008 7:59 PM:

" • "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
--George Washington
(1st President of the United States)
[Attributed -- Walker P. Whitman, A Christian History of the American Republic: A Textbook for Secondary Schools, (Boston: Green Leaf Press, 1939,1948),42.; Henry Halley, Halley's Bible Handbook (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1927, 1965), p.18; Gary DeMar, America's Christian History: The Untold Story (Atlanta, GA: American Vision, Publishers, Inc., 1993), p.58.] "

dose wrote on Jul 13, 2008 8:06 PM:

" I'll ask you one more time Fred and let's see if you can actually answer the question. Are you telling all of us here on this web-site that for the last few years you have regularly started work at midnight on Monday morning and didn't stop working until midnight the following Sunday because that is how much you would have to work to get in 144hrs. That is six days in a row all day and all night. With no breaks no time off. Wait I'll answer for you the answer is no you have never worked that much. Also since you are so worried about McDonalds buying their beef from Australia. You should know that Budweiser was officially bought by an Austria beverage company called InBev they produce one of the best beers ever made, Stella Artois. I guess you'll have to find a new beer to drink too. "

O. G. wrote on Jul 13, 2008 8:23 PM:

" jeff wrote on Jul 9, 2008 6:00 PM:
" Fred, George Washington was a slave owner do you hold contempt for him too. He was also most likely not a Christian."
jeff, George Washington certainly was a religious man. His own diary shows of his dedication. For one perspective, you could read the book "George Washington, The Christian" by William J. Johnson. (Nashville, TN: Abingdon Press, 1919). His adopted daughter, Eleanor Parke Custis Lewis wrote "General Washington had a pew in Pohick Church, and one in Christ Church at Alexandria. He was very instrumental in establishing Pohick Church, and I believe subscribed largely. His pew was near the pulpit. I have a perfect recollection of being there, before his election to the presidency, with him and my grandmother. It was a beautiful church, and had a large, respectable, and wealthy congregation, who were regular attendants. I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian." - Eleanor (Nelly) Parke Custis Lewis, Woodlawn, 26 February, 1833
jeff: hope you learned something.


' "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 13, 2008 8:32 PM:

" Dandre' did you miss the buss, someone said Obama and Hillary were giving their speeches congratulating McCain on his win already. They might send another bus if you hurry.
As for a needle you might be more adapted to sewing than I am so have at it stud. You simply don't get it your opinion is as important to me as mine is to you. Continue not to believe in what the good Catholics taught you and see where it gets you. You can't afterall claim ignorance now can you? As the Nuns of your school retired I am sure you were their most prized accomplishment. Not!
It is with great disrespect and thanks you address them every chance you get for force feeding you an education. An education you have obviously according to you made very successful for yourself. As for my riches I am sure they don't compare with all those record royalties you receive while you were some hot rock and roll God, correct? I'm sure you had at least one gold record you could point to if you had to right? Not. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 12:24 AM:

" Dandre wrote on Jul 13, 2008 4:28 PM:
Is that jealousy I detect from you Dandre" knowing you'll never ever get there perhaps. Don't worry as long as there is breath there is hope.
Which one was it oh yeah: Though Shalt Not Commit Adultery, that's one of those you said wasn't a law, right, so it's o.k. for you to participate in as long as you don't get divorced? That was your personal brain storm and contribution to the blogging network. "

jeff wrote on Jul 14, 2008 8:22 AM:

" This discussion around McDonald’s reminded me of a lesson I learned as a kid. I lent $10.00 to a boy I didn’t like one day and he promised he would pay me back by that weekend. So a couple weeks go by and I can’t ever seem to find him anywhere and he hasn’t paid me back. I was hanging out at the music store after school telling this to the owner and he says to me, $10.00 is a small price to pay to never have to associate with someone you don’t like again. McDonald’s makes billions of dollars in profit a year and they donated a measly $20.000.00?
Hey Fred it’s 2008, McDonald’s stopped using Styrofoam in 1990.
I had lunch at McDonald’s twice last week because of their donation and how upset fundamentalist christians are over it. Before last week I hadn’t dined at a McDonald’s since sometime last year. "

jeff wrote on Jul 14, 2008 9:30 AM:

" O.G. You’re wrong, read this http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_remsburg/six_historic_americans/chapter_3.html
And
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
and this
http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/founding-fathers-xtianity.html
Maybe you can learn something "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 11:07 AM:

" To O.G. I hold contempt for no man, However, I find it hard to believe that all those patriots were slave owners when they wrote such statements as "all men are created equal" How can you make a statement like that and then own slaves, literally, figuratively and rape them and make offspring and proclaim your actions as a patriot for all men. It seems contradictory to me. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 11:15 AM:

" To Jeff: you are absolutely right it is 2008 and you go to McDonald's today and order a big breakfast with pancakes, scrambled eggs, english muffin and coffe and see if it isn't served in a styrofoam container. Check your own facts, before you question mine Jeff. McDonald's isn't only about burgers, fries and milk shakes anymore, hasn't been for years. Oh they do put a cardboard protector around their coffee cups now, since they lost that lawsuit for scalding people with hot coffee. McDonald's never has been a large contributor to very much of importance, $50,000.00 to children that's what 25,000 happy meals, they probably sell that in a day nation wide. So come on when the billion dollar corporation starts donating millions we can talk, until then it is lip service from the Golden Arch's. How easily some people are fooled about generosity, just give to their cause and you have their support. It doesn't matter that the donation is chump change for the corporate giant. Charity begins at home and McDonald's practices it just that way, board members and stockholders first. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 11:24 AM:

" To Jeff: here is an assignment for ya, research how long it takes that fork and spoon from McDonalds to biodegrade? Oh and the plastic straws they use by the billions they take a long time to biodegrade as well. Have you ever seen a McDonald's participate in any form of recycle, I haven't.
Even Wal~mart has the sense to reuse and recycle their cardboard boxes they ship products to the stores in and once they are of no further use they are bailed and recycled for a final time.
If you don't care that your all beef patty came from Australia then more power to you, but for me that is an issue and a problem. There are enough beef producers in this country who would love to have that contract at least within the confines of the United States.
You do realize that Europe is where Mad Cow Disease is from and Australia is a European Colony don't you? Do you see anything wrong now with your all beef patty from down under Jeff?
I don't even want to get into the special sauce.
Happy eating, order two they are small. "

Dandre wrote on Jul 14, 2008 12:02 PM:

" Yo, Fred....What the heck are you talking about?
I can see why you like bush, he makes more sense!
You could not have got past the testing to get into my high school let along the tuition.
Jealous of a wreck, not! "

jeff wrote on Jul 14, 2008 1:14 PM:

" Fred, McDonald’s does not serve their breakfast in Styrofoam, they discontinued using styrofoam in 1990. It’s also the reason the McDLT got discontinued. I am already aware how plastic breaks down so I do not need to research that. I fail to see what your point is, you should try and correlate your ranting to something of significance. Just because you have never seen McDonald’s participate in recycling is not evidence they don’t. I recall an article written in the Sentinel asking its readers to chime in with their favorite burger in town. Top on your list was McDonald’s. This was only a few months ago and you didn’t seem to care where their meat came from then. To answer the question in the last part of your comment, no I am not worried about Mad Cow disease. Australia is no longer a UK colony Fred, they gained independence in 1901. You should try and keep up on current events. You would also be interested to know that we had an outbreak here but the beef came from Washington State not Europe. "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 14, 2008 2:35 PM:

" Well, NotHomeGrown, you sound like my kinda person! Welcome to the cone of sanity...plenty of available tables, no waiting! :) "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 2:55 PM:

" Jeff - you are so not in tune it isn't even funny. I just called McDonald's and they still serve the big breakfast on styrofoam they will continue to do it and have no plans of changing it. So my suggestion is buy one before you speak of how it is served Jeff. Once again caught in a falsehood, styrofoam is styrofoam if it is in a cup big mac container or big breakfast fool. Styrogoam goes into their trash containers which end up in our landfills across the country. They converted all the lunch containers to cardboard in 1991 but the styrofoam for big breakfast continues, just like your ignorance continues. Now if you want to talk about good neighbors look at In N Out every package contains a bible reference every package is paper or cardboard, now that is how it should be done. The french fries are fresh never frozen also. I bet you didn't know about the bible reference on the packaging did you Jeff? Don't believe it look on the bottom of the cups, cardboard containers and bags the fries come in Jeff. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 3:00 PM:

" Dandre' please read this blog you wrote go look in the mirror and tell me it doesn't describe you.

You act like the victim when being called out as a bigot but if it talks like a bigot, walks like a bigot and thinks like a bigot, IT'S A BIGOT!
and God didn't have anything to do with it!

Bigots come in many colors Dandre' "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 3:05 PM:

" Jeff what is that saying of Dandre's if it walks like a duck, quaks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Here is some updated information since 1901 "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 3:06 PM:

" Jeff what is that saying of Dandre's if it walks like a duck, quaks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Here is some updated information since 1901
chief of state: Queen of Australia ELIZABETH II (since 6 February 1952); represented by Governor General Maj. Gen. (Ret.) Michael JEFFERY (since 11 August 2003)
head of government: Prime Minister Kevin RUDD (since 3 December 2007); Deputy Prime Minister Julia GILLARD (since 3 December 2007)
cabinet: prime minister nominates, from among members of Parliament, candidates who are subsequently sworn in by the governor general to serve as government ministers
elections: the monarch is hereditary; governor general appointed by the monarch on the recommendation of the prime minister; following legislative elections, the leader of the majority party or leader of a majority coalition is sworn in as prime minister by the governor general
Now does this seem like any other government that you know of: with Kings and Queens and Prime Ministers? If you think the influence on Australis by the British isn't alive and well today you are insane. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 3:13 PM:

" Jeff: more information on Australia you ever look at their flag?
Flag description:
blue with the flag of the UK in the upper hoist-side quadrant and a large seven-pointed star in the lower hoist-side quadrant known as the Commonwealth or Federation Star, representing the federation of the colonies of Australia in 1901; the star depicts one point for each of the six original states and one representing all of Australia's internal and external territories; on the fly half is a representation of the Southern Cross constellation in white with one small five-pointed star and four larger, seven-pointed stars
Is your wikepedia key broken Jeff? If it is I'll be happy to do your research for you? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 3:36 PM:

" Jeff - this
The McLibel Trial is the infamous British court case between McDonald's and a former postman & a gardener from London (Helen Steel and Dave Morris). It ran for two and a half years and became the longest ever English trial. The defendants were denied legal aid and their right to a jury, so the whole trial was heard by a single Judge, Mr Justice Bell. He delivered his verdict in June 1997.

The verdict was devastating for McDonald's. The judge ruled that they 'exploit children' with their advertising, produce 'misleading' advertising, are 'culpably responsible' for cruelty to animals, are 'antipathetic' to unionisation and pay their workers low wages. But Helen and Dave failed to prove all the points and so the Judge ruled that they HAD libelled McDonald's and should pay 60,000 pounds damages. They refused and McDonald's knew better than to pursue it. In March 1999 the Court of Appeal made further rulings that it was fair comment to say that McDonald's employees worldwide "do badly in terms of pay and conditions", and true that "if one eats enough McDonald's food, one's diet may well become high in fat etc., with the very real ris "

jeff wrote on Jul 14, 2008 3:40 PM:

" Fred, I called McDonald’s where I live and they do not serve the ‘Big Breakfast’ in Styrofoam. I guess this only happens in Hanford. Yes I am aware of the bible passages at In N Out. I’m sure you can’t recall but back when you were pro McDonald’s (You know the article I spoke of where the Sentinel asked for people to suggest their favorite burger places and you listed McDonald’s as your #1 choice) I brought up In N Out and listed many good things that company does (Some of them you have repeated here). Many nations have Kings and Queens. It doesn’t matter if their government is similar to the U.K. You stated and I quote “Australia is a European Colony”, if you had said ‘Was’ a European colony you would have been somewhat right as Europe never owned Australia but at least the U.K. is in Europe. Take the high road Fred and admit you were wrong. I have to say your question/comment about Wikipedia had me laughing for a straight 5 minutes. How did you ever learn about anything before that site was created? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 3:51 PM:

" Jeff - health
E-Mail News Alerts


POSTED: 11:15 am PST February 18, 2008
UPDATED: 11:19 am PST February 18, 2008


The following statement comes from In-N-Out Burger President Mark Taylor:

We ended our relationship with Hallmark/Westland on January 30th. There is no meat from them anywhere in our system.

At In-N-Out burger, we have never purchased any processed patties or ground beef from any supplier. We make every one of our hamburger patties ourselves using only whole chucks from premium, select-type cattle. We pay a premium to purchase fresh, high quality beef chucks and we require our suppliers to certify that quality in writing. Our suppliers must all sign our purchase specification agreement which prohibits them from using non-ambulatory or "downer" cattle. They all know we would never accept it.

We individually inspect every single chuck we receive to make sure that it meets our standards. Then our own, in-house and highly skilled butchers remove the bones. We grind the meat ourselves and make it into patties ourselves. We do all of this in our own patty making facility on our property in Baldwin Park, Ca. These steps enable us "

jeff wrote on Jul 14, 2008 3:54 PM:

" Fred, I called the McDonald’s corporate number at 1-800-244-6227 (You can get this on their web site) and I was told that corporate owned restaurants use plastic. Franchised restaurants can still use styrofoam if they chose to do so. Let me guess you called the Gianola [sp?] site in town and they use styrofoam? Well as we’ve seen, Hanford is not the most forward thinking town in our country. "

dose wrote on Jul 14, 2008 4:37 PM:

" Fred what does In/Out have to do with your love/hate relationship with McDonalds anyway. Why did you even bring them up? Oh I know because you were trying to change the subject since you are unable to follow a conversation. "

Watchdog Fred Bites Back wrote on Jul 14, 2008 4:56 PM:

" Jeff - prior to Wikepedia I had a vast working knowledge, street smarts, formal education and two parents who taught me right from wrong.
I certainly would not want to rely upon you as a source of information.
It's funny you called what McDonalds where that told you that, Rachel a McDonalds' Manager told me that using the stryofoam is a corporate thing and all stores are abiding by it. So your store must be in direct violation of their corporate office.
Unless you are being a liar again, which McDongalds did you call and what was the name of the person you spoke to and I will contact them myself. if you would have read the articl I posted from England it contained why my opinion of McDonalds changed. Believe it or not logically thinking people have the capacity to do that Jeff, without your permission by the way. I don't know what town or planet your in but you sure get some mixed up information are you sure you are even old enough to be on the computer by yourself? Perhaps your parents should exercise some parental intervention in your case. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 5:29 PM:

" dose' if you don't recognize comparisons you shouldn't be allowed out of the house alone and on the streets, you might get runned over by the big buses going down the street. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 5:32 PM:

" Jeff - did Corporate tell you if they recycle any of their palstic or does it also go to the landfills. You just made my point for me thank you! Plastic is made from petroleum base so now McDonalds is one of the oil grabbers as well. Thanks Jeff for providing the information to win this argument and send you back to your play pen now. i bet the landfills aren't going through our garbage from the fast food places and recouping that valuable resource. But then who wants to drink from a recycled cup? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 5:34 PM:

" Jeff - do us all a favor and reach up there and push that silver button that says off abovve it. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 14, 2008 5:52 PM:

" Jeff - you are arguing over is was what's next thee thou sheesh does it ever end with you children. "

Dandre wrote on Jul 14, 2008 5:57 PM:

" Hey, dose, somebody had to blow the dust off of those 'In N Out' and McDonalds Wikopedia Sites and evidently the wiko-guys need to clarify that Australia is a soverign nation for over a hundred years now.
Maybe, its a new interpretation of scripture.....
fred's god hate McDonalds! "

O. G. wrote on Jul 14, 2008 10:08 PM:

" TO Watchdog Fred: I never said that Washington was a slave owner...that was jeff who said that.
You're watching the wrong dog homie! "

O. G. wrote on Jul 14, 2008 10:32 PM:

" TO jeff: I've got plenty of evidence for the Washington quote. I've learned not to put too much stock in the atheist websites you keep quoting from. I've given you a number of sources for that quote, not just "right wing Fundamentalist websites, but from reference books published early in the 20th century, However, I will attempt to find the original source for that quote, although I already have a date attached to that quote.
In the meantime, I trust reference books over atheist anti-Christian bigoted websites that are wrong on so many levels. "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 15, 2008 12:00 PM:

" I think purple bigots are the worst, Fred. Also green bigots, they are envious of everyone and everything. "

jeff wrote on Jul 15, 2008 1:00 PM:

" Fred, you had a formal education and street smarts? Why is it you can’t read then? As I stated above I got that 800 number from the McDonald’s corporate web site. Look it up and see if you can navigate the site correctly so you can find it. I’ll give you a hint; you can start with http://www.mcdonalds.com When I called I didn’t ask about recycling. I did however find quite a bit of information – Again using their web site – that spoke about recycling programs. Anyone with a High School education can tell you have no idea what you are talking about. When are you going to explain why several months ago you loved McDonalds and hated In N Out? Why are you using the same arguments for In N Out that I used before? Why are you incapable of thinking for yourself? Why does it take you a minimum of 5 posts to make a weak point?
O.G. what sources have you offered? You stated a politician and his step-daughter made statements. I could claim that you said you love gay marriage but that doesn’t make it true. "

FaithHopeCharity wrote on Jul 16, 2008 1:19 AM:

" To Duane Andre,
First off did I offend you? I am a Christian woman who is not pointing anything out only that God gave us all love. To the ones who reject Him, how sad it is that even for them He gave Himself. He came as Jesus in the flesh to redeem us. I wasn't saying anything towards anyone in particular. If I offended you I apologize. I love the Lord and even I fall short of His glory. I cannot claim to be perfect because I am far from it. But just like everyone I have to ask the Lord to forgive me of my sins and have mercy on me. I don't agree with same sex marriage but yelling and pointing of fingers aren't going to convince them of God's love. We are required to represent Christ with love. He said the greatest of all commandments is Love (charity). To show brotherly love. If I have offended anyone I apologize but God loves us all. And is waiting for us to repent of our sins. Spewing hate isn't winning them to Christ and we will be held accountable. God Bless all! "

Angie wrote on Jul 16, 2008 10:07 AM:

" To FaithHopeCharity
You are so right. I tend to get into the anger over the sin and I forget that God loves the sinner. It amazes me how many people don't realize they need Jesus. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 16, 2008 2:02 PM:

" Jeff: in response to your personal attack about my abilities to read. There is nothing wrong with my reading ability it just takes more than ignorance to change my opinion or get my attention.
jeff wrote on Jul 15, 2008 3:00 PM:

" Fred, you had a formal education and street smarts? Why is it you can’t read then? "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jul 16, 2008 2:50 PM:

" Hey Watchdog, you cannot win against those who would diminish the truth in your words.

Tell them to google ‘Australian Monarchy' then ask why is the current Queen of Australia the same person as the current Queen of England?

Perhaps President Obama could be the President of Mexico and Canada at the same time too!

Won't the lefties just love that ‘change?' "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jul 16, 2008 3:10 PM:

" Just an observation on these posts:

Shouldn't the use of the word 'bigot' be considered exactly the same as the word 'homosexual?'

Both are protected under the U.S. constitution and related laws. Bigots can marry, and so can homosexuals now (in CA. but that will change come November).

But bigots don't claim to be born that way; it apparently is a lifestyle choice based upon what they were taught growing up, not inherited or passed on by a ‘bigot gene.'

The ying and the yang of it: people either love, hate, or tolerate each, don't they?

Why favor one over another? "

jeff wrote on Jul 16, 2008 3:39 PM:

" Alejandro, are you seriously trying to distort history on the Hanford Sentinel web site by inferring that Australia is not an independent nation?
To answer your second comment, No that would be ridiculous.
Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Homosexual: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
Can you see the difference Alejandro? "

dose wrote on Jul 16, 2008 4:03 PM:

" Did Alejandro just ask why can't people tolerate inolerant people? I can't even begin to list the myriad of things that are ridiculous about that.

NO Alejandro nobody should have to toleratate your bigotry. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 16, 2008 9:03 PM:

" Alejandro yeah that whole heir apparent thing gives it away doesn' it? You know my frustration doesn't come in giving these freeloaders an education, my problem is our tax dollars already paid for that education. What did they do eat the books and have sex with the teachers?
I tried explaining to them that England still and always will have an influence on Australia and I was told I didn't know what I was talking about. You can lead a horse to water but you can't keep him from turning in to a complete mule.
One thing I realized long ago is children who don't pay attention can't learn very well, hence ridalin. If they refuse to take meds once they grow into adulthood and aren't responsible enough to know they should there is little you and I can do to correct it. Nor by that time should we have to, Jeff is off in never never land all gay and misguided in his principles concerning life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Probably on meth and wondering why his brain doesn't function half the time. It's called irresponsible. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 16, 2008 9:06 PM:

" dose wrote on Jul 16, 2008 6:03 PM:

" Did Alejandro just ask why can't people tolerate inolerant people? I can't even begin to list the myriad of things that are ridiculous about that.

NO Alejandro nobody should have to toleratate your bigotry. "

dose - then please don't tolerate it somewhere else now reach up and push that big button that says power and push gently. Night Night! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 16, 2008 9:08 PM:

" Alejandro - don't mind them they are just upset because you provided further proof that they are illequipped to duel in a battle of whits with either one of us. They love to gang up but don't like it when you come along and even out the odds. It frustrates the hell out of them. Thanks for your help. "

Melissa wrote on Jul 17, 2008 2:38 AM:

" Nothomegrown,
Yes I wish there were more stay at home moms, it is totally benifical to the children. As long as they are active parents who interact with the children...My son just graduated kindergarden and I was amazed at how many students didn't do there homework because the parents wouldn't participate...it's a shame what we are doing to our kids. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jul 17, 2008 5:45 PM:

" Thanks, Watchdog!

Notice that they did not dispute the truth behind my comments.

Producing facts always trumps those who would diminish anyone displaying true American spirit and patriotism. "

Tim Mason wrote on Jul 19, 2008 9:04 AM:

" How many of you who do not believe in God have done your own study based on the evidence? When you say “I do not believe in God”, what is your “non-belief” based on?

One respondent said “But from what I remember from bible lessons is that jesus wan't a discriminator...he accepted people from all walks of life...can you follow in his footsteps? If not how true of a believer are you?" If they meant from that statement that Jesus accepted homosexuals that is not true because Jesus spoke out against all types of sexual sins. That something that seems to be lost on many Christians today; and it is for that very reason that I believe we have lost our creditability, for the most part, on the issue of homosexuality because many of our Churches look the other way when it come to heterosexual sins at the same time they are on their soap-box condemning homosexuality. The Bible condemns both with the same vigor.

I notice others who had a problem with Alice quoting the Bible as her source, yet some else quoted Mahatma Gandhi and that's ok.

Timster440@aol.com "




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