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Dropout rate data displeases educators

California's Department of Education released Wednesday the newest data available for high school dropout rates. And although school officials locally and across the state are pleased that new technology has allowed for more accurate data, many remain dissatisfied with the numbers in the data.

According to the state reports, 67.6 percent of public school students in California graduated in 2006-2007, 24.2 percent dropped out and 8.2 percent are considered neither dropouts nor graduates. In Kings County, the reports indicate the area's number of dropouts lower than the state number, at 21.8 percent.

The state's 8.2 percent not counted as graduates or dropouts stems from students who transferred to a private school, left the state or earned a General Education Degree. This is the first year that the data was compiled using a Statewide Student Identifier, or SSID, which provides each student a unique identification number and allows for much more accurate information about how many students are or are not completing their education.

"For too long, we had to rely on complicated formulas to make educated guesses about how many students were graduating and how many were leaving school without a diploma," said Jack O'Connell, state superintendent of public instruction. "Arguments over differing approaches to this calculation often resulted in confusing and distracting conversations. Now, using student-level data, we can improve the accuracy of our count of how many students drop out, increase accountability, and focus on preventing dropouts.

"Twenty-four percent of students dropping out is not good news. In fact, any student dropping out of school is one too many, and the data reveal a disturbingly high dropout rate for Latinos and African Americans. But, the dropout rate itself is only part of the story. Now, using the new student-level data we will have a much clearer picture of why students drop out. This is data-rich information that will be a powerful tool to better target resources, assistance, and interventions to keep students in school and on track."

Locally, Kings County's percentage is also lower than Fresno County's reported 31.3 percent and Tulare County's 24 percent. Reports indicated the dropout rate at 18.5 percent for Hanford Joint Union High School District, 18 percent for Lemoore Union High School District and 23.5 percent for Corcoran Unified School District.

Jim Shaver, county education director of curriculum and instruction, said there are still many inaccuracies in the dropout reporting. Shaver added that he anticipated the numbers to be higher, although he believed some of the reported numbers were clearly too high and some were clearly reported too low.

One example of a number reported too high was that of Armona Union Elementary School District's Crossroads Charter Academy at 44.6 percent. But Steve Bogan, superintendent of Armona school district, said that Crossroads is not necessarily set up to be a school where all students attend ninth through 12th grade. O'Connell said that alternative education schools' rates should not be compared to traditional, comprehensive high school rates.

"We don't see kids for four years generally," Bogan said.

Often students transfer into or out of Crossroads, and in transferring, some students aren't tracked and the dropout rate skyrockets through the small student population to an inaccurate percentage.

Shaver also pointed to Reef-Sunset Unified School District, where state reports indicate a 4.3 percent dropout rate. Shaver said he doesn't believe that number is correct, unless every student that left Avenal High School enrolled and attended another California public school. Shaver said that in five or six years the data "will get cleaned up."

Suzanne Monroe, superintendent of Reef-Sunset district, said she would be "very surprised if [the] dropout rate was that low." But she and district staff members will go back in and see if corrections need to be made.

Shaver also emphasized that school districts will be correcting these numbers and the state will continually post updated percentages. The state had set a deadline for schools to correct data, but has since changed to opt for no deadline, because over time as a district adjusts a number -- especially in the case of transfers -- it will affect the number of another school district.

Shaver was pleased that Kings County's dropout rates are lower than other areas in the state. He said the small size of the county's school districts factored into that low dropout rate, and added that "larger districts have larger problems."

"I think the idea of collecting the data in this manner is a good idea," Shaver said. "Even though it's not perfect, it's in the right direction.

Leslie Steffen, director of curriculum for Hanford Joint Union High School District, said the district's reported 18.5 percent is still a number the district would like to be lower. Steffen added that she believes the actual rate is lower, and will be looking the data over to see if and where corrections need to be made.

O'Connell noted that it would be a mistake to compare this year's dropout numbers to last year's rate, which was 13 percent, because the numbers are based on different information.

O'Connell also mentioned that dropout rates are viewable by ethnicity. Across the state, reports indicate that 30.3 percent of Hispanic or Latino students dropped out in 06-07, along with 41.6 percent of African American students and 15.2 percent of white students. O'Connell said this new data is proof that the achievement gap among students is real.

Dropout rates for each county, district and school are viewable at http://dq.cde.ca.gov/dataquest/.

The reporter can be reached at 583-2424.

(July 17, 2008)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 17, 2008 1:33 PM:

" It's stuff like this that I am talking about, which indicates a red light warning going off in our educational system. "Leslie Steffen, director of curriculum for Hanford Joint Union High School District, said the district's reported 18.5 percent is still a number the district would like to be lower. Steffen added that she believes the actual rate is lower, and will be looking the data over to see if and where corrections need to be made."

How can anyone be satisfied knowing that 19 out of 100 students are not graduating High School, in the African American/Black community it is 42 out of 100 and in the Hispanic Community it is 30 out of 100 are not graduating. 30 to 40% failure rate in any other government program would be unacceptable, but because this is the highest funded program in the state of California and it is failing is uncomprehensible. 50% of all tax dollars colleted in this state go to education. Millions of lottery dollars have gone to education in addition to that and it is still broken and getting worse. Are teenage pregnancies included in these estmates? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 17, 2008 1:41 PM:

" This has got be the aboslute worse indicator of job performance by our teachers that could possibly be attained. Our teachers are suppose to teach and motivate our young people and the first item to be taught should be the value of an education. If you break these numbers down in class size it means what 10 to 13 students in every class are dropping out? That means for every class of cattle ran throuogh our educational system you could hang a sign around 13 of their necks stating they wouldn't graduate High School. Could you believe the impact that would have to the parents, educational staff and the public in general? But instead of a demonstration to shock people; this is reality, folks. Our educational system has degenerated to the point of failing 30% of every graduating class at the High School level. Why is this even acceptable to those who say oh well at least it is decreasing? Is it, now or is this the first time the data is truthful on the subject? No wonder the crime rate is up and teenagers can't make change at Fast Food. "

Parent of yr old wrote on Jul 17, 2008 3:34 PM:

" I graduated from Lemoore High and my daughter will be attending her third year at LHS this Aug. There are many wonderful teachers at LHS and some that should retire, be fired or choose a new career. That being said, I feel it primarily comes down to parental involvement. Mom's and Dad's are not involved. Too many parents don't keep tabs on their kids! I work full time and still manage to follow up on my childs studies,homework, reports,tests,grades,tardies,etc. It is my JOB to know my childs whereabouts, her social circle and her social activities. If a child starts to fail a subject, study with them, go talk to the teacher, cut back on the childs social outtings! I don't understand the lack of interest so many parents have in the well being of their children. Back to school night at LHS is an opportunity to meet the childs teachers and get an idea of what's expected and how things run. Each time I attend, and I'm always shocked to see the lack of parents. There is more to raising kids than providing food, shelter and clothes. "

Mrs.D wrote on Jul 17, 2008 7:41 PM:

" RE:Parent of yr old, That is the right type of parenting you are doing. I'm a block away from my soon to be 8th grade son at Pioneer Middle School. Everything that is assigned on each grade level is posted on the PESD website, by teacher, by class, by grade level. And if you want to get a hold of a teacher now a days, there's always the school number or teacher email. But it is up to the parent to know what is going on at their childs school. Some parents do not care if their child drops out of school for some lame reason(anything from "my teachers don't like me" to "It's too hard"). Oh, I graduated from LHS in 1987; some of my teachers are still teaching there!

Watchdog Fred, you must love hearing yourself talk! "

Tired Fair Mom wrote on Jul 17, 2008 8:05 PM:

" Watchdog Fred- I understand that teachers are the easiest targets to blame, and I'm sure it makes the rest of society feel better to have someone to beat up on. But this is a societal problem that is not going to be fixed by scapegoating one particular group. There are very good teachers out there who are doing a lot to help kids. I know because my daughter had one last year.

You fail to mention the role of parents, administrators, gangs, governmental policy makers, and many other groups who have an effect on kids lives- even the students themselves. Maybe in your house teachers are the only ones who have a chance to make an impact- but not in mine, and probably not in many other people's homes either. "

Theres enough blame to spread around wrote on Jul 17, 2008 11:17 PM:

" To Watchdogfred - Isn't it nice to have a target - teachers. There are many talented teachers out there and many within Kings County, but this is not all their fault. It's administration, it's policy, it's parents and it's community. This is NOT a warning - the warning signs are in Kindergarten and pre-school. Parental involvement is so minimal when it should be the greatest at that age level and throughout elementary school - parents and community members who are involved in the school show the kids school is important. If school is not important to parents, children will begin to loose respect for school as well. With my children, who excel, they get lost b/c the teachers are so focused on those who are behind. BEHIND in the lower elementary grades! How does that happen? Lack of involvement. Parents working and kids in day care for 10 hours a day. No one will teach nor nurture you child the way a parent can in a day care program. Slow your buying of toys and be a parent first. "

lchanford wrote on Jul 18, 2008 1:33 AM:

" Latinos and African Americans dropping out wow what a surprise. Come on you donkeys this has been going on for a long time. Why don't you fix the problem instead of looking at numbers. Look into what is going on in the schools, talk to the kids, they will tell you. But you need to listen to what they are saying and not brush it off. Pay attention you educated idiots. "

Claire wrote on Jul 18, 2008 4:59 AM:

" Fred, schools can't MAKE students stay in school, much less study hard and care about school. There are far too many that come from a climate at home where education is not valued. Generations have lived on menial jobs, welfare, or been in prison, and that is all some students know. It's very frustrating when you try to model hard work and a young student will say, 'man, I can make more than you selling drugs!' And they mean it. Schools can't always overcome that for individual students. Sometimes students will become lucky and have a positive role model at school that connects with them and can help change their attitude about succeeding in life, but far more have a home life that engrains not working hard and just taking anything you can get for free from others. Many homes don't have one book on one book shelf. That's the first thing that needs to change. "

Alan G. wrote on Jul 18, 2008 11:42 AM:

" I think this falls squarely on the shoulders of parents and I agree with Claire. There is a culture of deadbeats raising deadbeats and they make up the majority of dropouts. Parental involvement is the key to a lower dropout rate. The teachers show up every day and do their job, which is to educate children. If parents don't give a crap and get involved in their children's education, this is the result. When you look at the data, I think it's fairly obvious that there is a direct correlation between unplanned pregnancies and a higher dropout rate. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jul 18, 2008 12:49 PM:

" To MrsD, at least WatchDogFred usually backs up his mouth with facts whereas you like to just attack blindly. Many of the postes here have in my opinion hit the problem on the head, the parents do not install the proper meaning of education. But I also think that the teachers need to quit worrying about being attacked and really do something getting rid of the deadwood, and a teacher isn't deadwood due to age, but due to lack of the ability to enlighten their students. My children have often complained that they aren't challenged/taught enough in school, and they are A+ students. I also put part of the blame of having bilingual teaching, make everyone speak English, don't hold back the majority for the minority (the majority should be English speaking irregardless of what goes on in the home). There is no one size fits all, and I believe the corrective action needs to begin at home, but also society's appreciation for education. When a 7 foot tall man who cannot coherently string a sentence together makes more money then the doctor working on you heart. Go figure? "

Mrs.D wrote on Jul 18, 2008 4:56 PM:

" RE:NotHomeGrown, Don't blame bilingual education for the drop out rate. At Stratford Elementary, they have a goal for each incoming student who needs bilingual service: from the start of school to Christmas break you will learn English(or from another language other than Spanish). After Christmas break, the student will be expected and will be spoken to in English. It has been successful for many years and no one has dropped out of high school from there. The principal of Lee Richmond School is proof of that.

Now you claim that your A+ children aren't being challenged enough. Have you ever thought of having them place in Advanced Placement? Do you do something to help them? Or do you all sit around and blame others for their lack of sparkle?

Thank you for voicing in. "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 18, 2008 8:45 PM:

" Fred, you did it again. Here I find myself agreeing with you and here's why. I worked full-time, too when my four children were in elementary school. But I didn't have the 8-5 M-F job I have now, I worked retail. Irregular hours, nights, weekends, holidays. It was all I could do most of the time to keep up with MY JOB of making sure my kids were clean, fed, well-rested and ready to learn, much less keep up with the HOURS of homework they assigned nightly to even the 1st grader. Everytime I turned around, my kids had a substitute teacher. When I was in school I could count the number of times I had a sub on one hand. I would ask my kids what they did in class and too many times I would hear that they watched a Disney movie. Not the educational Jiminy Cricket ones they showed us in the 70s (remember those?) but movies like "Aladdin" "The Little Mermaid", etc. There's two hours that they could have been doing their classwork but OH NO they send it home and if we parents who sometimes didn't get off work "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 18, 2008 8:49 PM:

" until 7 pm - or later! - in the evening didn't sit down and spend those two hours with them, of course it means we didn't care about our children! I'm not the one who went to college and got a degree that says I'm qualified to teach academic subjects to kids. How nice it must be to have a job where, if you FAIL to do your job, you can blame it on someone else and get away with it! I did my part. My kids were clean, fed, rested and ready to learn and they knew I expected them to mind their teachers. Yet I'm expected to do the teacher's part too, and if I don't it means I DON'T CARE?! Oh and don't get me started on the time I volunteered in my son's room as a teacher's aid. This teacher had NO control over the class and she never attempted to get any. She just stood at the board, gave her lesson and most of the kids were doing their own thing. The bell rang for recess and they ran out without being dismissed. Nice. "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 18, 2008 8:53 PM:

" Mrs. D, you'd better be careful. Fate, karma, whatever you want to call it has a way of catching up with people who think they have all the answers. Even the Bible says, "Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall". Your kids are NOT grown yet. Anything could happen and believe me, as a parent of grown kids who remembers well those volitile teenage years, it usually does. "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 18, 2008 8:57 PM:

" Hey Tired Fair Mom - get this: before I started working full time I was going to college full time while my kids were in grade school and on my days off from class I would volunteer in my son's class. When I finished school and got a job, I told the teacher that I would no longer be available to volunteer because I would be working. This woman looked me in the eye and in a tone of voice that sounded like she sure thought she was saying something nice, said to me, "oh that's WONDERFUL! Now your children can RESPECT you!" So that's what she thought of me - and my child - that I was not worthy of his respect because I didn't work and then when I did start working, I didn't care because between working full time and raising him and his three siblings I didn't have time to do HER JOB when I came home in the evening. I'm sorry that I'm a sub-standard parent, Teacher. I just worked 10 hours today, came home, did laundry, make sure the kids got baths, made dinner, cleaned my house... "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 18, 2008 9:01 PM:

" (con't to Fair Tired Mom) ...and somewhere in the middle of that, I have to make sure that I have time to do two hours of homework with each of them because you showed "Aladdin" in class today for two hours and the other teachers in my other kids' classes did Lord knows what for two hours because it sure wasn't classwork. My kids weren't perfect but they weren't deliquents, either, yet you didn't teach them what you went to college to lean how to teach, and when they fail it's MY FAULT. Yes, THIS Tired Mom sees exactly how THAT'S FAIR. "

BJMallory wrote on Jul 18, 2008 9:05 PM:

" Ichanford - OUTSTANDING! Listen to the kids! What a novel idea! Too bad it'll never happen. The kids that are naturally bright and learn easily will always be held up as the great shining example of how wonderful the school districts think they're doing, not to mention their parents who don't really realize how lucky they are not to have a child that isn't easily taught or doesn't have a teacher that shouldn't be training dogs much less teaching young minds. A teacher should only consider him or herself as good a teacher as how well her most challenging student performs. Otherwise they're just sucking wind and wasting time and taxpayer's money. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 19, 2008 12:41 AM:

" Don't tell me about parental responsibility, I was one of the very first Mr. Mom's. I arose at 4:00 a.m. got my son dressed and ready for school by 4:45 a.m. and drove him to a sitter, then drove off to drive and run a delivery route in excess of 120 miles a day, which required me to pull product, check product in build displays in markets and various other tasks that often time didn't put me back home until 5:00 p.m. or later. I then had to pick up my son prepare him dinner, wash our clothes, clean house, help him with homework tend to his shower get him dressed and ready for bed and usually about 11:00 p.m. I'd get a moment to set down and maybe enjoy a cigarette without interruption. (thank god I don't smoke anymore) The sitter cost me $150 per week because of both the early hours I kept and the late hours I might have to pull from time to time. That was our schedule for year after year until he became old enough to let himself in the house and finally graduated High School. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 19, 2008 12:48 AM:

" During this almost nine years of finding out what goes on in a woman's life, I learned an entirely new respect for them. Believe me I found out in a big hurry, women invented multi-tasking. But I would go back and do it all over again because I did it for my son whom I love dearly and who I did it for to begin with, afterall he didn't ask to be born and he certainly didn't want his mother to run off with another man. Yeah she was so in love she stayed out of his life for almost three full years, not following visitation, not calling him nothing cause she was so wrapped up in a fool who slapped her around and was an alcoholic to boot. So on top of the care and nurtering I was trying to keep his mind focused on school and other things so he wouldn't focus on what she was doing to him at the same time. So believe me I know what it is to be involved in my son's education, I made every Parent Teacher Conference right on up the line. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 19, 2008 1:03 AM:

" Now for all the educators who came to their own defense and to others defending them. Ask yourself this question, when you graduated from High School was thirty percent of your graduating class missing and unaccounted for becase they had dropped out of school? Were 30 our of every 100 students you started with in your Freshman Year not graduaIing. I think not, you are dealing with parents who said; by golly I am not going to do what my parents did, my kid is not gonna be a latch key kid. I am gonna take an interest in his or her learning from the beginning right on through to the end. Now with all this guilt the parents are already saddled with you want to lay more on them. The Soccer Mom's are gonna be turning in the SUV's for mopeds if these gas prices keep soaring.
I think parents get blamed for too much today, many parents don't see their kids until late into the night if they are involved in sports and such so is it really the parents fault? Why are they still in sports with failing grades? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 19, 2008 1:09 AM:

" Now what the fifth blog of the night on this subject: Sorry but bare with me just one more time. I see the largest problem with High School as it has always been a kid does good until they get their driver's license and transportation and maybe their first job. Then the mind is out of focus and see's the latest fashion, the few dollars in their hot little hand make them greedy for more. But the only way to get more is to get out of High School. Also High School with all the extra curricular activities has become one big enormous Social Event further taking kids minds off school and studies and graduating from High School. See and the bad thing is you have that other one someone brought up, he gets into drugs starts selling them before long he's driving the hippest ride, all lowered down and $3,000.00 tires and wheels on it and every other kid gets jearous and see's an easier way to success than High School and a diploma. Those cases are out there no doubt but hopefully Johnny Law will come and arrest the drug dealer. "

Truth wrote on Jul 19, 2008 8:21 AM:

" Most of the problem comes from our growing population of those that come here illegally, can't speak the language and ultimately drop out to work. There will always be some bad teachers just like any other profession. Don't blame it all on the teachers. There is however, a moral decay in our country today that contributes across the board. If you separted out the iilegals and the gang bangers (sometimes they are the same person) what would the numbers look like? Let's tell it like it is and do something about it. "

Corcoran Parent wrote on Jul 19, 2008 11:03 PM:

" The ONLY reason Corcoran Unified School District is at 23.5 percent is because they are setting our kids up to fail. If they were just to lower the requirements to others districts requirements we would see more students graduate and less drop outs. I know that Corcoran is the only School District in Kings County that requires 260 credits to graduate. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jul 20, 2008 3:05 PM:

" To Mrs. D, how do you suppose that my kids got A+ if they weren't already in AP classes, how about coming in the top 5, not percent, but top 5 students at high school. And it is not just me, other people have made the same comments. And again you didn't read my whole post, I agree the first person to place blame on is the parents, but then I also asked the educators, rather than blanket statements about not our fault, to look within and get rid o the the deadwood, say something like a teacher that assigns no classwork or homework because she is quitting at the end of the school year? Great education our kids are getting from her. You need to admit to facts and see who has the highest drop out percentage and take that up to the community leaders. Why does Hanford need gangs? It is that mentality that hurts this community, see all of my posts and see where I want all of us legal residents to be called Americans and nothing else, one big diversified family. "

Yes I can talk about responsibility WDF wrote on Jul 20, 2008 6:59 PM:

" You want kudos for being a Mr. Mom? Gee - whiz, I too was a single parent, doing everything you mention - worked, did the laundry, cooked (no fast food for us), went to school functions and yes, each and every parent teacher conference. I haven't dated - because well, my direct obligation of 18 years to the child I decided to bring into this world is quite short. Well... she's graduated high school now, graduated college and low and behold, graduated the credential program and what does she do? She's now a first year teacher. I gave to her b/c that was my job as well as earning money to put a roof over our head and money in our pocket and the savings account to take care of the unforeseen. Never could buy a home, so had to rent, parents passed on early, so knew it was just us... no one else to rely upon. I don't ask for kudos - my reward was/is her success. and love. And, when a man seeks kudos for doing what is required, well I just laugh. "

foot heart doctor wrote on Jul 20, 2008 10:33 PM:

" To Corcoran Parent;
So, are you saying that they should lower their standards?
To BJMallory;
It is evident that you are a "Fred-Head". I agree that there are severe problems with our educational system. Most of which could be solved with accountability and support. Our teachers need to be held accountable but only after they have been provided with adequate support! I am not talking "financially" either. In many cases teachers are simply not supported as they hold students accountable or attempt to maintain high academic / behavioral standards. If you agree that education is a responsibility and not a right then what is your take on a vouchers system? I think it needs to be revisited. "

DaTruth wrote on Jul 21, 2008 9:56 AM:

" I'll be candid, and state the real problems... it's a lack of parental involvement and illegal immigration. The more families who come here and refuse to assimilate into our culture, the more our dropout rates will climb. This also adds to the growing gang problem which is one of the schools # 1 issues today, from K to 12th grade... ask any school administrator! A lack of responsibility, and the dependancy of the government for everything has produced a younger society of punks, who are a menace to society and the school system. They are expelled, to protect the student who are trying to get an education, which leads them to quit school. Society creates a mess, and then blames the system when it can meet their impossible expectations. Schools administrator have more guidelines and rules to follow than ever before, and they are doing the best they can, in a no win situation. Drop out rates are the fault of the parents, and no one else! "

to foot heart doctor wrote on Jul 21, 2008 3:30 PM:

" Yes, I believe that if the standards were lowered to 220 credits that would help the students

Corcoran parent. "

Silly Corcoran Parent wrote on Jul 21, 2008 4:29 PM:

" Now that's just funny. Lower the standards to "help" them. What a brilliant idea. Require less of our children. How do you suppose that would "help" them? We should require more and more of our children. I encourage my child to reach her full potential in everything. "

Smell the coffee wrote on Jul 21, 2008 6:11 PM:

" Those of you who have never been in a classroom teaching really don't understand much. And if you think that the "no child left behind" act has or will save us are mistaken. I predict that as soon as the new president is sworn in, that act will be among the first to go. It's hated by the majority if not all teachers. It doesn't allow the teacher any freedom to TEACH, and that is what EVERYBODY wants. But students learn how to take a test. But what upsets me the most are people like "truth" who make this and almost any other topic "racial." The eight girls that got knocked up at that one high school, were they black or latinas??? No they were white but its funny how they aren't mentioned here.. When my son informed us that he was dropping out and would get a GED instead, I told him NO WAY BUDDY!!!! And if your grades start dropping, I WILl QUIT MY JOB and attend all your classes with you. Quit being whimps, call their bluff!!! YOU ARE THE PARENT!!! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 21, 2008 7:15 PM:

" Yes I can talk about responsibility WDF wrote on Jul 20, 2008 8:59 PM:

Before you lambaste someone perhaps you should ask the motive of the story not make a predetermined decision. The point I was trying to make is sometimes a parent or parents are doing all they can do to provide the basics while being involved in their childs education, as I did and evidently you did. The teachers here painted every parent with a very broad brush in their complaints none of which were valid in either of our instances, I might point out. When people jump to conclusions all they are doing is demonstrating they have the intellect of a toad, who can also jump. So I will be awaiting your apology you and I did what we did out of love for our children not because of some law or court order. So lighten up and be proud of your daughters successes, I just wish she would have picked a higher salaried job, should she ever find herself in the single parent mode. The more secure the homefront the better the upbringing. "

Big Problem wrote on Jul 21, 2008 7:22 PM:

" The sad thing is that you don't need a high school diploma to enter a junior college. Any person who hasn't graduated from high school may enroll in a junior college, complete units and potentially transfer on to a four-year university. "

The drop-out go onto the local community college wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:48 PM:

" apply for FASFA, migrant aid and other programs which are really just Welfare programs in disguise...they have them pass classes with very low C's actually I beleive they are D's and F's but the system let's them slide for reason's that they came into the country will no education...they get the squeeze by. Drop out of one country into another country that will pay you to go to school if you don't succeed at the grade and high school levels. What a great country America is! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 23, 2008 12:31 PM:

" Well in my opinion Citizenship should be the primary qualifier to go to elementary or up through and including college. We are so reluctant to take our country back from the illegals and that is such a shame. There should be buses loaded to capacity heading to Tijuana everyday. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jul 23, 2008 3:31 PM:

" To Watchdog Fred, haven't seen you posting lately, maybe other blogs. I disagree on the bit about college, nothing wrong with having foreign students attending our colleges, as long as they receive no aid from the US and they pay the non-resident fee. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 23, 2008 4:28 PM:

" It just dawned on me we, bring people into the scholastic system to teach them and don't teach them the most important lesson of all. How to be a productive citizen of this country.

Why should we educate non-citizens, so they can remain illegally or return to their country and give benefit to them with the education we paid for here.

All the way back to WWII we educated Japanese Military men and they returned home to join in a war against this country. It all started there and continues today, why? Why should we do that, actually it happened all the way back to the civil war. Yankee Officers and enlisted left those ranks and became Confederate Officers and enlisted. This needs to stop it is insanity, to train your advesary. "

Parent of yr old wrote on Jul 24, 2008 1:21 AM:

" WatchDog Fred: I don't necessarily disagree with you but we're not in that era any longer. This is 2008 and parents are too busy with work and themselves, and therfore are not focused on their children. If parents are not involved, informed, and attentive their children are bound to fail. Nuff said. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 24, 2008 2:24 PM:

" To: Parent of yr old wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:21 AM:

" WatchDog Fred: I don't necessarily disagree with you but we're not in that era any longer. This is 2008 and parents are too busy with work and themselves, and therfore are not focused on their children. If parents are not involved, informed, and attentive their children are bound to fail. Nuff said. "
It is attitudes like yours that defeats the principles for an education for a child. What are parents so busy doing of necessity that I wasn't doing 20 years ago raising my son? We are too busy with our own lives to invest any time in our own family, that is the problem, don't you see that? "

WaitAminute wrote on Jul 24, 2008 3:59 PM:

" You are blaming teachers for the fact that 21% of the students that start school, quit ??? You may have a leg to stand on if you were blaming failure rates on the teaching (a game leg at that) But a teacher cannot teach someone that isn't in school. Those that drop out do so for reasons beyond the teachers control: pregnancy, drugs, alcohol, migrants, zero value in education (which is instilled at home), gangs, medical reasons, ...


I think you should be commending the teachers/schools in our county. economics plays an important roll in education. Kings county is one of the lowest economic regions in the state yet the schools manage to educate more students then the state average. They must be doing something right "

To the watchdog wrote on Jul 24, 2008 4:54 PM:

" I think you should consider two things.

#1 You are not in the field of education. You are a parent. This does not make you an authority on education. I am not a doctor, therefore I do not tell my doctor how they suck at their job. I am not a postal employee, therefore I do not generalize ignorant ideas such as all postal employees are crazy gun fanatics who are going to shoot the placce up. I am so tired of people thinking that they have the right to tell teachers how to teach, just becasue they once were in school or have a child in school. (To all of those parents who posted blogs on here in support of education and parents needing to be involved in their children's life, please do not take offense. You GET it).

# 2 You point the finger at everyone as the problem and do nothing but praise yourself. This is not the way. Look at how YOU can help things that upset you. Complaining without action is a waste of time! "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jul 25, 2008 3:47 PM:

" Whoever said "Complaining without action is a waste of time!" is either ignorant or simply foisting his prejudiced point of view on the reader.

A complaint, in quality improvement and customer service terms, is viewed as an opportunity to do better in meeting the needs of customers. School children and their parents are the customers of teachers; teachers, if they choose to do so, they can improve their delivery of knowledge in the classroom. But first they have to recognize the existing problems, and complaints can help them do just that.

Watchdog points out many things: problems, solutions, and new points of view. He also teaches and informs in his own unique way. He actually lives here, votes here, buys here, pays taxes here, and takes the time to echo his feelings and opinions publicly. That's called citizenship. Good citizenship.

Sorry some of you don't appreciate an individual making his voice heard in the closest thing to an open community forum that we have. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 26, 2008 5:34 PM:

" TO: To the watchdog wrote on Jul 24, 2008 6:54 PM:

" I think you should consider two things.
My biggest problem with educators such as yourswelf is you place the responsibility on everyone, but fail to ever look in the mirror and admit you failed by not teaching your students. Who's fault is that, it is yours, if you don't want to teach get out of the classroom, but no you don't want to give up a cushy job with three months a year paid vacation. I think, "we should institute year round teaching" since you are being paid anyway and spend more time teaching and less time blogging and blaming other people for your own failures. I don't hear any teachers volunteering to spend more time in the classroom to tutor and help these children you are failing in the regular classroom. So look in the mirror point your finger at the image and say: The Dog is right this could be partly my responsibility too". According to what you say, that isn't even a consideration, in your mind, it is everyone else's fault not yours. Denial, look it up! "

Consider This wrote on Jul 28, 2008 9:10 PM:

" #1 You are not in the field of education... What kind of an uneducated statement is that? From the title of this article it is obvious that many of those in the field of education need state testing just to force them to do their jobs. Many people not in the field of education are much smarter and more educated than you are and we certainly have a right to express concern when we see statistics that demonstrate that many of those in the field of education are letting our children down. Intead of promoting your elite status you should be evaluating all your self imposed problems and finding some solutions beyond denying problems exist or saying that others are not qualified to express their concerns in your obvious lack of ability. "




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