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So She Thought: Whose fault is teen pregnancy?

When I wrote a column a couple of months ago regarding bright but poor teens not always finding the road to college an easy one, one reader I met made me realize I missed one of the biggest reasons kids in this county get derailed from their college aspirations and other life and career goals: Underage pregnancy.

The lady told me the story of her 17-year-old high school granddaughter, who recently informed her family she's expecting a baby this winter. I have another good friend going through the exact same thing, but in this case it's her 18-year-old son and his 16-year-old girlfriend who are the parents-to-be.

Both young couples are unbelievably excited, gleefully believing that love conquers all as they happily await the birth of their first child and new "grown-up" responsibilities.

Both sets of grandparents and great-grandparents are about as excited as if they've just received one-way tickets to Tunisia. Teen pregnancy is an unexpected detour that can, hopefully, turn out OK in the end, but which is usually not in the plans, the dreams, or the hopes most parents have for their children.

I have no doubt that both sets of grandparents-to-be will eventually love their new grandchildren as much as life itself, but right now they're still grieving the lost or altered futures of their own kids, who will become parents before they're even old enough to have a diploma in their hands, much less a champagne toast at their baby's christening party.

Kings County has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the state, with births to teens comprising approximately 18 percent of the county's total births in any given calendar year.

Of course, teen parenthood itself has been around for as long as there have been hormonal teens, unprotected sex and crushed, disappointed parents to go along with them.

But underage pregnancy has become far too much a part of our culture in this area, to a point of being almost acceptable due to its commonality.

As the parent of three kids, I've been forced to think about this, because it's looming like a precipitous, hanging boulder over the road ahead of each one of them as they grow up and begin having relationships with the opposite sex. To deny it would be to deny reality.

But it creates a dilemma: How do you preach abstinence but let kids know protection is a must if they decide to ignore parental advice and chart their own course regarding their sexuality? Do we offer to make the protection available for them, should they need it?

Is it like teen drinking, where you advise against it, yet let your teen know that they can still call for a free ride home with no recriminations if it happens?

Most parents would agree on the drinking issue that it's not because we want to promote teen drinking, but rather because we don't want our kids making a bad situation worse by doing something stupid (like driving) after they've already done something stupid (indulged in underage drinking in the first place).

And so it is with sex. While few parents are in favor of their teens engaging in sex, it's making a bad thing even worse when we refuse to acknowledge that availing them of protection can potentially stop a bad situation from becoming worse.

I have far too many friends who have preached "abstinence only" for religious reasons, only to discover their teen has gone ahead with premarital sex anyway -- without using protection -- and is now about to become a parent.

And these grandparents-to-be then face their own dilemma: Do you raise your children's children for them, knowing they're too young and immature to handle the rigors of parenting? Do you try and steer them towards adoption? Or do you demand they own up to their choice, move out and support their new family, even if they're forced into minimum-wage poverty?

One of my sons recently went for his physical, and his doctor weighed in on the matter of premarital sex, telling him that if he could manage to abstain from sex until marriage, that the doc would buy him a steak dinner.

Wow. If only it were that easy.

What probably would have been more realistic would have been to tell him what we've been telling him -- about how venereal disease, HIV, or unplanned pregnancy can change your life permanently, and not for the better. About the 20-plus years of commitment involved in keeping and raising a baby.

And maybe even a conversation about the fact that while waiting for sex until marriage may be ideal, realistically it's not something everyone manages to do, so learning about protection, and being willing to use it, is mandatory.

Yes, the fight against teen pregnancy in our county (if we're truly committed to fighting it) will only be won if we're willing to admit that Plan A, abstinence, and Plan B -- pre-pregnancy birth control -- are both options that must be discussed in any realistic dialogue involving teens and sex.

Diane Sayre is a freelance writer living in Hanford. Her column appears weekly in the Sentinel. Readers can write to her at The Hanford Sentinel, P.O. Box 9, Hanford, CA 93232.

(July 21, 2008)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Mag wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:40 AM:

" I have to take issue with your term "underage pregnancy." What is the age of legal pregnancy? If you mean teen pregnancy, that's good. If you mean don't get pregnant until after college-age 25 pregnancy, that's better. But pregnancy isn't exactly like "underage drinking" where we know age 21 is the legal age. There isn't exactly a legal age to be pregnant. I agree, no family should have to deal with a pregnant teen, especially when there is so much birth control available in one form or another, and kids gripe about COS tuition being $20 a unit. What's a box of diapers? Sure, once the baby comes, everyone loves it and can't imagine life without it, but who is paying for it and not getting trained for a good career? Use birth control, or 2 or 3, and get a pet instead. "

Feathernest wrote on Jul 21, 2008 12:40 PM:

" Please go to www.amazon.com & buy this new book "Fractured Fragments...They Hit Me."
Insights into a different kind of pregnancy issue. "

Devils Advocate wrote on Jul 21, 2008 4:31 PM:

" Chaperones. Better than condoms anyday. Nobody gets pregnant in front of their parents. "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Jul 21, 2008 10:57 PM:

" I have a couple of things to say here. First- I was two months pregnant when I graduated high school and still made it to college. And me and my husband took care of him from day one without any help from anyone else. It wasn't easy but if you're mind is set on it you can do anything. Second babies are a blessing even when the situation isn't always the best. And I feel that the birth of oldest son did make my life better. And I couldn't imagine my life without him.
I think the biggest thing to being a parent is teaching your kids who they are and what they stand for. That doesnt' mean that they may not slip up because I have seen kids that come very good families end up in this very situation. The problem is too many kids today aren't taught to take responsiblity for their actions. And they figure if they slip up someone will bail them out. Teach them to make choices before they are in the heat of the moment. It's hard to make the right choice when you are caught up in the moment. "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:08 PM:

" cont... and kids are going to do what they want whether they have chaperones, curfews or whatever. If that is really what they want to do they will find a way. I also think that open and honest communciation with your kids would help. I wish I had someone tell me honestly about not only the physical consquences of sex before marriage but also the emotional consquences. Instead all I heard when I asked about it was just don't do it. And wasn't allowed to question it . Yeah, that helped a lot! My son is a teenager now and it is scary to watch him grow and as I remember some of the things that I know I had already done by time I was his age. Luckily for now he is standing by what we have taught him and what he believes but he also knows that he has me and his dad if he needs us, And honestly I believe that our world created this problem by making it acceptable. The family as it once was is being destroyed. And morals aren't upheld like they once were. "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:10 PM:

" a little more... and sex is everywhere and is glamorized. I really think the world brought this issue on itself. "

Amanda R wrote on Jul 22, 2008 12:24 AM:

" How do you preach safe sex and abstinence, as a teen parent? I don't agree with "underage pregnancy" but I found out I was pregnant a week after my 18th birthday. I was not living at home, and had graduated high school, but was still young. Not every young parent is ill-equipped to care for a child. My and my (now) husband's parents were upset, but what could they do after the fact? We got married and have a beautiful, happy two-year old and twins on the way. Not once did I think of adopting my son out, or getting an abortion. I grew up fast. Why wait until after age 25? God gave me my son for a reason and there is no "age" to have children. Mag, we are paying for my son. My husband works full-time and I stay at home, which is something most mothers don't have the privilege of doing. Does that mean I am not being trained for a good career or I am missing out on some great chapter in my life? I can't think of any better career than being my children's mother, teacher, helper, and best friend. "

Amanda R wrote on Jul 22, 2008 12:33 AM:

" Diane, I cannot understand how you can say an unplanned pregnancy can change your life, but not for the better. I would be in a much different place if it weren't for my son. Not every "teen pregnancy" is the same! Our parents are not raising our children, nor are we living in minimum-wage poverty. I'm not suggesting any teenager who thinks they can handle being a parent or that "love conquers all" should go out and get pregnant. It's hard. A lot of people don't take me seriously as a young, 20 year old mother. They think I'm naive or inexperienced. It's tough to raise a child when you're not ready to grow up yourself, but it's a choice. Anyone who knows me knows I am a good mother and that my child never goes without, but that is because of the positive choices I made from what could have landed me as another welfare statistic. The abstinence talk never worked, and birth control was never even discussed in my home. I'll definitely be having a long, detailed talk with my boys when they grow up. Hopefully they will listen better than their parents. "

Rebecca Patterson-Kmet Texas Retired Pharmacist wrote on Jul 22, 2008 1:02 AM:

" This is a very difficult subject and the causes and faults are numerous. But this I know, there is a narrow path that is possible to follow although it is difficult. Joshua in the Bible saw the fornication and glorification of sin around him and made a statement: "YOU must choose for YOURSELF. But as for ME and MY house, WE will serve the Lord." Serving the Lord and avoiding fornication is a choice. Sometimes rape destroys virginity, but chastity can be re-established if virginity cannot. Avoiding situations that can compromise virtue is difficult but not impossible. Most people will choose the wide path to eternal destruction because that is where fun and happiness are in this world. But is that real happiness? No. It is a deception and the devil's lie. Real happiness is not license. It is obedience to the word of God and His commandments. It is repentence when one sins. No one is good but God, but sinning as a lifestyle and being proud of it and unrepentant leads to eternal death. "

Huh wrote on Jul 22, 2008 2:16 PM:

" Is this something new? I graduated almost 40 years ago and there were unmarried parents (or soon to be) in my class. A few got married, and none of them lasted more than 5 years. I have discussed this with a lot of people that are from other countries and in some countries if you get pregnant and can't or won't support the child on your own, you won't get public assistance. You must give the child up for adoption (or have an abortion, but I won't even go there). Maybe if this was the only option available to some young people, they would think twice about it. There are a lot of people that have been on adoption waiting lists for years because they would love to have a baby, but there aren't many, because of abortion and welfare. To those that took responsibility and did it on their own, God bless them, but it is a very tough road even with a good job and tons of family support. "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Jul 22, 2008 2:30 PM:

" To Rebecca- I probably shouldn't say this but I have a huge problem with your comment. Not that I don't agree, but I don't see how you can speak of God's way here but spread and hate and discontent on the racism issue. Seems A LOT hypocritical to me. "

Mrs.D wrote on Jul 22, 2008 3:35 PM:

" It might be a good idea to speak openly about sex education in school. In Scandanavia, there's a low teen age pregnancy rate since sex education is taught in middle school, then openly talked about in high school classes. If theirs a problem, talk it out. However, having a feel good movie about teen age pregnancy like Juno, isn't helping matters much when everyone exits with a happy feeling at the end. Just make it real for teen agers: become a young parent and kiss your real dreams good bye like having a high school diploma, college, a real job, a life without real responsibility until you're ready for it. Oh, and don't expect to get your body back anytime soon. There's always going to be something to buy for the baby, some bill that needs to be paid, but you need diapers. But hey, when you have a baby, you always have money!

Talk it out. "

Amanda R wrote on Jul 22, 2008 7:06 PM:

" Mrs.D: No matter what age you are, there is always a bill to be paid. My husband and I are young parents, and he has a real job, I am a SAHM just like you. We've both earned high school diplomas and my husband has some college credits. We enjoy our life and I don't remember the last time we didn't have money. These are problems parents face at any age. Don't knock all teenage parents. I'll have three kids before my 21st birthday and I wouldn't have it any other way. I have always wanted to be a mother and my children are a blessing. "

Robert R. Roberts wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:07 PM:

" Underage pregnancy. It's immoral? What was the average age of marriage 100 years ago and what is the average age today? How old was an unmarried woman at which time she was called a spinster? I would think that people should remember that social standards have changed and biology has not. The gap between physically old enough to procreate and people having kids is becoming wider and wider.

What we should be concerned about is people that are too old having kids. The risks as women get older go up. However, most tend to ignore these warnings. Afterall, it's in the glamour magazines that all the over 40 popular people are having kids. Let's put an end to this madness and not be selfish anymore! "

Devils Advocate wrote on Jul 23, 2008 8:46 AM:

" Mad in Nevada - "kids are going to do what they want whether they have chaperones, curfews or whatever." WHAT?!? You must be misunderstanding the whole chaperone concept. Think NEVER alone together. I'm trying to imagine what I would say if some punk suggested IN MY PRESENCE that he and my daughter should do something that could get her pregnant. Probably something along the lines of, "No, Officer, he left here several hours ago. Missing, huh? Sure hope he turns up. Huh? The shovel? Oh, I was... um... gardening... yeah, gardening." "

whitey wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:25 PM:

" Devils advocate..... It is nearly impossible for parents to be in the presence of their child at ALL times. There is school, there is work, there is sleep overs at their friends houses, school events... and, some kids will even skip a day of school to go out and do what ever. I know. I was that kid once. I however was one of the few that graduated high school with out a kid, or pregnant. I am a parent now. im 27. i had my son when i was 25. Im wondering, do you really spend every waking moment with you daughter? because im not sure i believe that. "

Mrs.D wrote on Jul 23, 2008 2:26 PM:

" RE:Amanda R, A lot of mental maturity is a must for any female who wants children. But it isn't present when teen agers have sex. Not a lot of thinking there, either. A good open dialog between adults and teens is a good idea with an emphasis on the consequence and the value of waiting is good, too.

And where is Watchdog Fred with his two cents about the care of illegal immigrants who are single mothers? "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jul 23, 2008 4:10 PM:

" Hey "Not So Mad..."

I reread Rebecca's comment and do not see the racial component you mentioned in your statement.

Please explain it to me as her words had nothing to do with race at all, unless I missed something.

Thank you! "

Devils Advocate wrote on Jul 23, 2008 7:35 PM:

" Whitey - Mom is home after school, which is when most kids find trouble. Mom is also my daughter's best friend, and they communicate about literally everything. She would be hard pressed not to reveal she is becoming casually close any boy, let alone on a sexual level. We've worked very hard to instill strong character in her since she was tiny; she exhibits leadership with her friends and has no problem pulling them back or parting company when they look for trouble. Any boy she's interested in must be interviewed by Dad before any supervised, group outings take place. We've also drilled into her that people aren't clothes; you don't "try them on" to find out what style of lover you'd like to eventually marry. She understand this means that she will be able to happily say that she's never compared her husband to any other man in bed, and that any children conceived will be born to married parents. Incidently, we pray together for her future, as-yet-unmet husband EVERY night. So, yeah, voluntarily and all the time. Because she KNOWS we have her back. "

mom at now im wrote on Jul 23, 2008 9:42 PM:

" what is considerd underage pregnancy, since the begining of time women got pregant at a young age... generally when thier period started... they were a woman... then got married....eversince education was required now it is called "teen pregnancy" -I had a baby when I was 16, I love it. I don't think of myself as a bad person, society is making it worse because now we have high standards ... graduate highschool with good grades, go to college, get married, then have a baby.......... uh who does that? "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:53 PM:

" Alejandro- read Eiji blog on racism and you'll see what I am talking about.

Devil's Advocate: I understand the concept of a chaperone and where you are coming from... my point was teenagers are going to do whatever they want and will find a way to do it if determined. And if by chaperoning you mean being in the same room and right next to them ok, but just being in the same house or place may still not prevent things. And that's why you need to teach them to make choices before hand. I have been plenty of places that were supposedly chaperoned and things were going on that probably shouldn't been... have you ever been on a band trip? Heck they had to put cameras on the school buses here because kids were having sex on the way to school. ( My kids won't be riding the bus in high school) "

To Amanda R wrote on Jul 23, 2008 11:29 PM:

" I think its great that for such a young woman you are so responsible. Many young people aren't in your situation and the worst part is a child is dragged through their mess leaving the grandparents to raise these kids if those kids are lucky. As a mother of 2 who stays at home with our kids, I have to really find ways to budget and be responsible with our money, we sacrifice many things so our kids are not without. The things I go through now with my family is something a young person maybe 17 or younger more then likely could not handle physically or mentally, its a lot to sacrifice and yes you can make it if you work really hard but unfortunately many things don't work in the favor for teenagers having babies and once they fall behind, its difficult to catch up. "

For Rebecca wrote on Jul 24, 2008 12:21 AM:

" I would love to have a face to face sit down with you. I'd have you meet me and my family and hear our story. I hope you are a darn near PERFECT christian (he who casts the first stone), to be posting on here about what's right and wrong, sin, repentance, devils lies, and eternal death. Pretty deep. Almost judgemental and very one sided. You state there are causes and faults to teen pregnancy. Let me enlighten you, (a great number of situations are troubled but not all) See below: "

My story wrote on Jul 24, 2008 12:47 AM:

" Had my child at 15 years old
Married the father 5 years later
Together 19 years, happily married 10 yrs.
Finished school, work full time, house, cars.
Always been drug free, no welfare, no rich parents.
My child is happy, loved, A student, confident, respectful, goal orientated, loves her mom & dad.
Parents (myself and my husband) are nurturing, attentive, respectful, involved, happy, fun.
I believe my child was put her for a reason and I am PROUD of it and NOT SORRY or REPENTFUL. I am an only child and my mother died 5 years after my child was born. She was able to enjoy 5 years of being a Grandma before she passed. I got my act together and matured for the sake of my child. If all that means I'm going to hell, than so be it. "

For Mrs.D wrote on Jul 24, 2008 12:59 AM:

" You're right, mental maturity is a must for those who want children. And teenagers who have sex and allow themselves to become pregnant don't have their thinking cap or any other kind of cap on for that matter. However, SOME teenagers do wise up real quick and get the job done real good. Like someone elses post said- not all situations are the same. Somehow at 15 years old I knew I had to finish school and work and come home to bathe my child and read to her and prepare her every step of the way for life. It can be done ( and done well ) with SOME teenagers mentality. Not all. "

huh wrote on Jul 24, 2008 11:06 AM:

" I would have loved to have read the rest of the article but I stopped once I started to see how biased and untruthful some of the things you were saying. How could I take anything you said as valid when you don't have the facts correct or don't understand information readily available? Tulare County has the second highest IN THE NATION, kings county doesn't even come close. "Kings County has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the state" and the 18% thing? Where did you get this false information at? Post a link to your sources please. "

huh corrected wrote on Jul 24, 2008 11:11 AM:

" Let me correct myself, it was San Diego, not Tulare. And Merced is right under it. And the then finally Kings with a whole bunch in between.

source:

http://www.teenpregnancy.org/resources/data/pdf/CountyTBRank.pdf "

Devils Advocate wrote on Jul 24, 2008 1:24 PM:

" Not So Mad - I'm still laughing about "band trip." That was REALLY funny! Of course, everyone knows that band geeks are allowed to make out in front of their parents, anyway (Hey, they let their kids BE band geeks, how good could their judgement be?!?).
'Course, if my kid WAS in band, I'd be one of the adult chaperones, so its unlikely she'd get away with misbehaving the way you did on a band trip. "

Eye Witness wrote on Jul 24, 2008 1:58 PM:

" Society condones this behavior and with as with most of California's problems it's a CULTURAL ISSUE. Most high schools now have a daycare facility on campus??? I recently looked at a high school year book from a small town located on the west side. There was a section dedicated to families (brothers, sisters, cousins, ect.) who attended school together. There were several pictures of student couples holding their illegitimate children. "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Jul 24, 2008 2:23 PM:

" Eye Witness: LHS had a daycare when I was there. Probably still does. But while I agree that society has made this acceptable, I think the daycares were originally a way to try to make the situation better. These teen parents have the opportunity to continue their education and I know that before they had to spend so much time a day in the day care taking care of their children. I don't think they were intended to say hey look it's cool to have a baby in high school or even junior high. That may have been the end result in it but I don't think that was the intention. "

the simple answer wrote on Jul 24, 2008 9:29 PM:

" Unless it is rape, the fault lies directly on the man and women who had sex. Do we really need to make up bunch of excuses for them? Unless they were 12 or something crazy like that, they made a real choice knowing the risks and got what they got. End of story. Time for some taking responsibility for your own actions. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jul 24, 2008 9:36 PM:

" Hi, Not So Mad . . .

Rebecca said some powerful things on that Eiji blog you referred me to.

I still don't know what's wrong. It is not racial but religious. I guess you don't agree with her point of view or her faith here?

I'm sure you will agree that she is entitled to her opinion and basically got beat up for it on that Eiji blog, which is one reason I will not go near this type of opinionata (my neologism).

Dialoging with the Sentinel writers is an acquired taste for me and I don't lurk there usually. Now I see I chose wisely.

The constant unrelenting liberal progressive efforts to make everyone equal and ‘all the same' and to celebrate diversity at any cost will be the downfall of a free society. My prediction.

The diversity that is being foisted upon us is basically the equivalent to liberal political waterboarding applied to the masses.

If you open your mouth, you will drown; keep it shut and you live.

Thank God there are no thought police, Not So Mad . . .

Not yet! "

NESSER wrote on Jul 25, 2008 6:51 AM:

" GOOD 4 YOU MY STORY, I LIKE TO SEE THE POSITIVES. I LOVE YOUR WAY OF THINKING VERY WELL PUT. KUDOS, APPLAUDING WHERE PRAISE SHOUDL ALWAYS BE GIVEN ;-)
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND ALWAYS KEEP YOUR HEAD TO THE SKY "

Scott Tucker wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:22 AM:

" "The constant unrelenting liberal progressive efforts to make everyone equal and ‘all the same' and to celebrate diversity at any cost will be the downfall of a free society. My prediction."

A-jo, isn't everyone equal at birth? Don't all humans have the same basic rights? What, not a fan of Jefferson or the Declaration of Independence? You are wrong when you say that progressives want to "make" everyone the same. We already ARE all the same. Progressives are just trying to fight for the rights that we are all born with.

I thought you didn't like elitists, because your comment sure sounded like it came from one. "

Loving mom wrote on Jul 25, 2008 2:53 PM:

" " RE:Amanda R, A lot of mental maturity is a must for any female who wants children."
This is so true. And let me just say that unfortunately, I have come across many couples in their 20's, 30's and beyond that don't have the mental capacity, financial security, morals, etc. to be raising children. I don't think parents should be judged by their age, but rather their ability to be good parents. Last I checked, there was not a college degree or salary requirement for this. Children do not come with instructions and it is a learning process for all first time parents.
BTW, I had my first child at 15. I went on to complete high school and attend college. I earn a good salary and have provided my children with love, respect, encouragement and a comfortable home (which I own).
People should not be defined by their "mistakes," but rather how they handle them. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jul 25, 2008 4:15 PM:

" Hey S-Tuck,

Actually, I was talking to Not So Mad and responding to her comments to me but, if interrupt you must, I will oblige.

If you reread my posts, I never EVER said "I don't like . . . " or "I don't approve of . . . " anywhere, I believe. I never said who I was a "fan' of either.

You issue labels out of liberal desperation, S-Tuck.

So you challenge me and try to make the issue all about me, when I NEVER said we were not all equal under the law and do not the same rights under the Constitution.

Individual preferences - our own personal likes, dislikes, and comfort zones - and free thought, are protected under our laws. We do NOT have to ‘like' the mandatory diversity that is being foisted upon us and we all cannot be forced to join hands and sing "Kumbaya."

However, we do have to - and should always - obey the laws and rules of common decency in the society we choose to live in. "

Melissa wrote on Jul 26, 2008 3:36 AM:

" I have to stand with the writer..Ithink Teen pregnancy is a issue we need to work on. Marriage and pregnancy a million years ago doesn't matter in this day and age. How many well off teens do you know getting pregnant? The ones I have seen were all poor or very close to that. I have seen countless of them in the public assistance office and my heart breaks. The fact remains that parents can only do so much...the rest is up to the individual. "

catty wrote on Jul 26, 2008 11:43 AM:

" I live in Kings County. My 18 year old daughter has been to no less than 5 baby showers for her friends this year alone. I wish them well, but I know how hard it will be for them. I was a single mother at 25, with a college degree, a job, and insurance. I struggled then and I still struggle sometimes. Please think before having a baby! "

Scott Tucker wrote on Jul 27, 2008 6:22 AM:

" A-dro, (is that better?)

Glad to see your backpeddling skills are in top form. Like you said, the US is a free society. No one is forcing you to do anything. If you respect others, then I am sure they will respect you.

Sorry for the interruption, but, as you know, this is a PUBLIC forum.

Have a good start to your week. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 27, 2008 2:03 PM:

" S-Tuck as you seem to prefer, I agree the minute children are born they are equal. That is until mom and dad take tnem home, because some with silver spoons in their mouth go north of grangeville. While those born with a hospital bill in their mouth are taken home to south of Hwy. 198. So the southside baby starts out right away owing society. The northside baby starts off with a credit card, t-bills in his/her name, their very own little savings account chocked full of money. A baby clothes wardrobe fit for a king/queen.
No, Scott I don't believe everyone is born created equally not after mom and dad are included in the mix. The spoiled child is clearly at a disadvantage they want for nothing and don't have the first idea past the endowment left for them in the event their parents aren't there. Once that money is squandered and they have to work for what they need and want then equality returns. Because for the first time they learn the only difference between them and everyone else is the size of their checking account. "

M. Haley wrote on Jul 28, 2008 12:53 AM:

" I agree that this topic is anything but simple. It is full of dichotomies. It is traumatic for the parents of the teen because their child is instantly burdened (though self-induced) with adult responsibilities that awe adults. The biggest problem I see in these situations is that no one addresses the boys involved. How will they pay child support? How involved will they be in the baby's life.
I believe the most important thing to remember in this situation is that as the decision to have sex is the teens, so are the rest of the decisions and responsibilities that come with pregnancy and raising a child.
Being there to guide and support is vital, but just as weteach independence by giving a child the least amount of help needed, this situation should also be handled as such. It is hard to do sometimes, but when you see your child making a serious error that must be corrected, remember to be kind in your choice of words and pick your battles well. You will know when it is time to draw a line, and stick to that boundary.
Good luck. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Jul 28, 2008 4:59 PM:

" Scott,

I prefer my actual name for politeness sake Scott. You will do as you please, I believe, so I can only ask for your civility in return. Let's see if you can return the favor.

It is apparent that you barged into this topic, interrupted my dialogue with another, did not even come close to responding to this forum topic, and really don't know what the term 'elitist' means or didn't read my posts in context or didn't care.

On this topic: "So She Thought: Whose fault is teen pregnancy?" - Scott -could you enlighten us with some kind of cogent response so we can be illuminated?

I believe you said you and your wife do not have any children, correct? So I would be interested to see what your particular response would be to Diane Sayre's article. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:00 PM:

" Alejandro (if this is indeed your "actual" name): My position on teen sex is simple: Provide teens with all available options and information, including risks, consequences, birth control methods, etc., so that they are fully informed and can make knowledgeable decisions. In other words, educate them, which, as it so happens, is what I do. "

How hard is this wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:05 PM:

" All they need to do is just say no or keep their legs crossed. No need for special training. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Aug 1, 2008 5:19 PM:

" Hey Scott,

Thanks for taking the high road and using my 'actual name.'

I really don't know the breadth of your teaching responsibilities in Switzerland and appreciate any details you wish to disclose. We all can learn from the experiences of others, right?

When I asked your point of view on this topic of ‘teen pregnancy,' you said:

"In other words, educate them, which, as it so happens, is what I do."

I didn't know that you were trained as a sex educator in Switzerland. Are you well versed with Swiss mores, customs and laws? That would help you teach more effectively I believe.

What special training do you have?

Do you teach both boys and girls in mixed or separate classrooms? What age groups?

Have you learned anything from teaching sex education in your new country that could benefit American educators here?

Thanks for your response, Scott. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Aug 2, 2008 3:23 AM:

" Alejandro, at the school where I teach, social studies, geography, and the sciences (under which sex education falls) are taught together by a handful of teachers, including myself, who work together to determine the curriculum based on the guidelines put forth by the lesson plans of the Canton of Bern. If you are interested in what Canton Bern has determined as its official lesson plan regarding sex education, you can find it here: http://www.erz.be.ch/site/fb-volksschule-lehrplaene-lp-volksschule.pdf.

Am I well versed in Swiss customs, mores, and laws? Yes, I am.

Special training: Masters in Secondary Education, plus all of the training, workshops, etc. that go along with being a teacher.

I teach junior high school kids, ages 11-15.

Sex education at my school has been taught both in mixed settings and separately to boys and girls.

Have I learned anything that can help American educators? See my comment from Jul 30, 2008 7:00 PM. "

To Amanda R wrote on Aug 2, 2008 10:59 AM:

" Aparently you live the life of luxury, not every parent can sit there and be as smug as you are about always having money. I wonder just how smug you would be if you woke up tomorrow and discovered you no longer had a husband to support you while you sat home. Wake up, at such a young age you haven't even begun to live in the real world and see all the obsticles that can be thrown at you. If you can still sit there 35 years from now and be so smug I will applaud you but until then get off your high horse and look at reality. Most underage and teen mothers are not able to financially support the children(s) they are bringing into this world. Us as grandparents, parents, and society are having to help support them. Teen pregnancies are a definite problem and we need to work harder to curtail this problem. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Aug 2, 2008 2:27 PM:

" Thanks for your forthcoming disclosure Scott. It seems that you have a very important job with those kids in Switzerland.

One last thing, or two really:

Are you the only American educator in the area, and does Switzerland encourage other Americans to teach there?

And

What do the kids you teach really think of the American people? "

Amanda R wrote on Aug 2, 2008 2:56 PM:

" To "To Amanda R":
Search the past weeks obituaries under Redding and then tell me how "smug" I am, or about living in the real world where I have not faced any obstacles. I delivered my aforementioned twins at 31.5 weeks and while one is struggling for life in the hospital, and the other was just buried, you tell me to get back to you in 35 years? What a smug person you are.
I was just saying not EVERY teen pregnancy is what you typically think it is. No we don't hurt for money, but that doesn't make me smug. I cannot believe your insensitivity to a situation you know nothing about. Maturity has more to do with what type of experiences you've had, and what you've learned from them, and less to do with how many birthdays you've celebrated. "

Amanda R wrote on Aug 2, 2008 3:08 PM:

" And FYI, I have never "sat at home". I care for my household and my child, arrange playdates and trips for my son, volunteer in my church, and now make trips back and forth to the hospital every day to see my baby. If you have children, you would understand there is never a minute to just sit down unless it's nap time. "

To Amanda R wrote on Aug 3, 2008 10:46 AM:

" My sympathy on your loss and I truly hope your baby gets well fast but you still don't see the point. Why don't you try working a full time 8 + hour a day job away from home and then add in all those things you work so hard at all day long. Your living the life of luxury that many people will never see. How many grandparents are out there doing just that to raise or help support their grandchildren who were born to teens? Just because one person in 50 makes it look like a cake walk (it isn't). How would you support your children if your husband lost his job tomorrow? Do you have a back up plan? His next job may not produce as much money. Why don't you ask people that have worked at places for years only to have the business close down around them? Are you fully prepared to get out in the work force and find a job to support your family? Add the cost of daycare and gas to get to work and see what is left? "

To Amanda R cont. wrote on Aug 3, 2008 10:51 AM:

" Yes, you have gone through some trying times now add another 35-40 years and see what you come with up. Us as parents need to work much harder to keep teen pregnancy rates down. Teens need learn that there is better things to do then just going out and having SEX. Children are a full time lifelong commitment and I will guarentee the long road is not an easy one. "

Not so mad in Nevada wrote on Aug 3, 2008 1:07 PM:

" To Amanda R... I am so sorry for your lose and pray that your other baby will gain strength and be healthy to live a full life. My thoughts and prayers are with you. "

Amanda R wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:40 PM:

" I thought we were good parents for providing for our children. Apparently someone would be happier if we had to struggle.
My husband has lost his job before, on a Friday, only to start another job on the following Monday. He works for a very stable, family-run company. If he lost his job (and that's a very big "IF") we have an awesome network of friends who would help him with his job search, no doubt. Should the need ever arise for me to work I would have no problem with having to work a full-time job. I never said it was a cake walk. Raising children is hard and never will I tell someone it's not. You don't seem to get my point. My point is that not every story turns out the same. I live the life I do because my husband busts his butt working 60-80 hour weeks. It's not luxurious, it's not always fun, but we live well and are happy. I won't apologize for that or be told I'm smug because I don't struggle the way most people do. Oh, and the back-up plan is called "Savings Account". "

Amanda R wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:41 PM:

" Not so mad: Thank you for your prayers. We would not be able to make it through this time without everyone's prayers and support. God bless you. "

ALEJANDRO wrote on Aug 3, 2008 6:32 PM:

" Amanda, I truly am sorry for your loss. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Aug 4, 2008 11:40 AM:

" Alejandro,

Am I the only American educator in the area? No, because Bern is the capital of Switzerland, there is a large foreign population in the area due to the embassies and other international organizations. As a result, there are a few international schools in the area where English is the language of instruction. I have American friends who teach at these institutions. As far as Swiss schools are concerned, I am the only American teacher that I know of teaching at a Swiss school in the greater Bern area.

What do the kids I teach really think about the American people? This is a hard question to answer. Generally, I would say that my students think Americans are "cool". My students love US music, clothing, styles, food, slang, etc. Many would love to visit the US, and some already have. As far as US politics is concerned, most 11-15 year-olds could care less, be they Swiss or American. Although, somme of my students have asked me about the Iraq War or the current administration. As an educator, I provide them the facts and the necessary tools needed to come up with their own opinions. (Cont.) "

Scott Tucker wrote on Aug 4, 2008 11:41 AM:

" What I do not do is impose my own personal political views on them. So, to answer your question, I cannot tell you what my students really think of the American people.

Maybe it will help if you ask yourself this: What do American kids think of Swiss people? Perhaps you might then get an idea of the difficulty of your question. "

To Amanda R cont wrote on Aug 4, 2008 8:39 PM:

" Most teens aren't going to be in it for the long haul when they are not mentally or financially prepared for how hard it is. Most of us sitting around arranging play dates isn't going to happen as we are too busy working trying to provide for our children (even those of us who are older). Most teens aren't going to be getting jobs making much over minimum wage, if they have to pay for daycare and transportation that isn't going to leave much for the necessities much less money for anything extra. You obviously don't have the concept of paying rent, utilities, car payment, cost of gas, insurance, daycare, food & medical. By the time that is all paid there isn't much left. Financial difficulties have brought down the best of marriages after years together so what kind of strain is it going to put on young teen parents. I can tell you, Lots and lots of resentment. What happens to the kids? We don't need anymore kids trying to raise kids. Maybe you will be lucky and 35 years from now you can still be sitting home. Maybe NOT! "

Mary wrote on Aug 4, 2008 9:37 PM:

" To "to Amanda R.:
I would like to take the opportunity as Amanda's mother to let you know, she does not ' live the life of luxury". She works hard at being a wife and mother. She goes without a lot of things to provide for her child. She does not find cable or fast food to be a "necessity' as our youth are being taught today. We taught our daughter abstinence and birth control was not an option. We supervised all of our children and as she stated, it was not until she graduated and moved out that she became pregnant. What happened to parenting our children and teaching them responsibility? "

Amanda R wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:38 PM:

" I do have the concept of most of those things. You are correct on the account of the car issue. We own an SUV and a truck, both of which were gifts from my grandmother-in-law after the passing of her husband. The gifts included a gas card and paid insurance. The other bills we do pay. How else would we live? PGE doesn't give out free energy. It sounds like you're the one with resentment and jealousy. A marriage is only as good as you make it, so mine will be strong as long as I choose to work at it. In 35 years I will be 55 and since my kids should all be out of the house by then, I probably won't be staying at home. A part-time job sounds fun. Stop trying to make me feel guilty or show me what the other half lives like. I have other friends who are/were teen parents and I know they struggle, but that's not the road I'm on. Oh, and my husband isn't a teen, nor was he when I became pregnant. He's 24 and works hard supporting us so I can "sit around" and arrange playdates. "

To Amanda R wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:08 PM:

" Jealous of what, some 20 year old that gets free hand outs and thinks she knows everything to life. I doubt it. There are no guarentees to life or marriage. I am three times your age, have raised all my children and have worked hard to get to where I am. But I know first hand how much teens struggle trying to get by with children, why wait you say, I can see a lot of reasons why teens should wait, but why waste my time and energy telling you when you already have all the answers. But see I know first hand that overnight your whole world can come crashing down and suddenly you may be thrown out there to have to get a job, support your family, pay daycare, cause hard working hubby may not always be around to do it all for you. Teens SHOULD wait, they SHOULD get their education and grow up some before trying to take on the responsibilty of raising children, maybe if more teens waited there would not be so many of them on Welfare or Grandparents raising their children when they become bored with it. "

Amanda R wrote on Aug 5, 2008 10:09 PM:

" My husband and I stood before God and put a life-time guarantee on our marriage. I'm sorry it sounds like yours didn't have one. You don't know what I've been through, my life crashed down around me two weeks ago. I said not everyone should wait until after 25. I do not support teen pregnancy but what has happened is unchangeable in my life. If my husband was gone tomorrow, I would work to support my family. I have worked in a preschool, am registered to work as a teacher's aide with KCOE, and have extensive experience with video editing/production. In fact, I have completed videos for the City of Lemoore and the Legion of Valor Museum in Fresno. I don't think I know everything about life, but I do know and have experienced far more than you know. If you ever have the chance to meet me, you will see. Oh, and those "free handouts"? They were a gift from my grandmother-in-law who cannot drive and whose husband had passed on, leaving said gifts behind. I'll be back around Christmas to harp on you about the "handouts" you receive.
Thanks for the support, Mom. "

To Amanda R wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:25 PM:

" How dare you condemn my marriage when you haven't a clue what happened to my husband. You haven't a clue what it is like when your husband leaves for work and that is vitually the last time you see him. You haven't a clue what it is like to lose a child you have raised for years and watch them die in your arms. Yes, you lost an unborn baby, and God now has a new little angel. I would say you are lucky and should be thanking God that you still have a baby to love and nurture. Feel free to come over at Christmas and check out my gifts but I can guarentee you won't find gasoline credit cards, and insurance for my vehicle. If all your fuel wasn't handed to you on a silver platter maybe you wouldn't have the audacity to sit on a blog and say "I don't even know how much it costs, I just fill up and go". Gee how can anyone miss those big huge numbers at any given gas station as you pass by? Enough said! Grow up! "

Amanda R wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:28 PM:

" I see it makes you angry for someone to assume things about your life. I know how that feels! I don't know what any of those things are like. I'm very sorry for whatever has happened in your life to make you so bitter. You're bitter about things said MONTHS ago. I'm sorry my gifts are more extravagant than yours. Before we got the gifts, we had no problem paying our bills, we drove more fuel efficient, older cars. I didn't notice gas prices before, but I do now. When I drive, my eyes are usually on the road, not reading signs when I don't care what they say.
I think I've grown up enough. Funny you tell me to grow up when everyone else says they can't believe I'm 20. Most of my friends consist of older women and they don't realize the age difference until someone mentions it.
I thank God every minute that I have what I have, that my children are healthy and I get to hold them every night. If it wasn't for God I would not be half the woman I am today. I'm done arguing. You need to let it go. "

Amanda R wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:08 PM:

" To clarify, I can only buy gas at Chevron, so the other gas prices don't pertain to me. Just so you don't get too upset over my "audacity". "




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