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Letters to the Editor

Editor: Let me start off by saying that I love Hanford and in particular the downtown. I enjoy the farmers market on Thursday evenings when the weather is not too hot. I shop downtown, I bank downtown, and I attend the events at the Fox Theatre and have dinner downtown.

I have attended the craft fairs, the home and garden shows, the chili cook off as well as the Renaissance Faire. I love the carousel and the Civic Center park.

I have lived in Hanford for over 30 years. I also work at Wal-Mart as do approximately 350 to 400 people who, for the majority, live in Hanford. Most of these people were born and raised in Hanford, attended school in Hanford and raised their children in this wonderful community. These same people also volunteer as Little League coaches, Sunday School teachers, members of their church councils, Citizens on Patrol, or volunteer with their schools and community.

Wal-Mart workers volunteer to raise money on their own for causes such as Special Olympics, Children's Miracle Network, Relay for Life as well as raising money for their schools and churches.

I will come to my point. Hanford's Relay for Life Committee rented a booth all season at the Thursday Night Market Place and each team was assigned a night that was just for them to be able to help raise money to reach their personal money pledge.

Team Wal-Mart's night was about three weeks ago. Some of the Wal-Mart people rushed home and picked up their children and headed over to the farmers market to set up and get ready for the event. After only a short time they were approached by Pam from the downtown committee stating that they would have to remove their Team Wal-Mart banners and turn their shirts inside out if they were to remain selling Relay for Life items. Needless to say they closed up and left. It was embarrassing for Team Wal-Mart as they had their children and to try and explain to them why Wal-Mart workers were singled out was hard. Prior to this night, all teams wore their team shirts and had their team banners. Since that night, the downtown committee informed Relay for Life that they could no longer show their team banners or wear their team shirts. I have no intention of trying to praise or bash Wal-Mart as a company, but I do intend to praise the hard-working people who work there and for their love of their community and their passion for helping.

I am sad to know that the downtown committee is so narrow-minded that they cannot separate the two. I always felt we lived in one Hanford but apparently no. Am I to believe there is a downtown Hanford and a Hanford for the rest of us? Is it the intent that everyone is welcome to downtown Hanford with the exception of a few hundred who make their living in a store the downtown committee frowns upon? That seems a bit snobby to me and downright discriminatory.

Sherry Stover

Hanford

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Carl.Spackler wrote on Oct 12, 2008 2:32 PM:

" I find this story fairly disturbing.

It would be nice if someone from the Thursday Night Marketplace could comment on this. "

HanfordCitizen wrote on Oct 12, 2008 6:12 PM:

" PART ONE:

I have read and re-read this letter to the editor trying to find something other than a justifiable reason for Ms. Stover to have written it in the first place. I obviously couldn't.

I heard about a similar issue a couple of months ago whereby Round Table Pizza was going to donate pizza for a worthy cause during the Thursday night Market Place and the owner of Round Table was told by Ms. Madill that a "non" downtown business would not be welcome. I found that to be disturbing. Now, this appalling situation arises again.

Apparently, the Board of Directors for Mainstreet Hanford is willing to look the other way when their employee makes decisions. Consequently, it is time for the Hanford City Council to step in and make things right. The Thursday Night Market is a HANFORD event. No vendor should be restricted from renting a booth or providing 'product' to another renter, even if they aren't sponsoring a worthy charitable event like Relay For Life. "

HanfordCitizen wrote on Oct 12, 2008 6:13 PM:

" PART TWO:

Mainstreet receives funding from our tax dollars and therefore needs to be responsible to the "keepers of the keys", our City Council. I do understand that the businesses in the downtown district pay double on their business licences. That money, quite obviously, should be utilized for the sole benefit of the downtown district. And, for the record, I don't have a problem with the monies made on Thursdays also being used for the benefit of downtown. The Thursday Night Marketplace however, and again, is a HANFORD event and should be treated as such. Closing out reputable businesses like Round Table Pizza and WalMart are not decisions that should be made at the lowest level, in this case by Ms. Madill.

I implore the City Council to take their duty to the citizens of Hanford very seriously in this instance and prevent further discrimination.

Lastly, as a citizen of Hanford, I apologize to Round Table Pizza and WalMart for the slanted view of one individual that may have seriously impaired your ability to assist in the support of worthy events. "

Deb wrote on Oct 12, 2008 7:34 PM:

" First off, Sherry - I am appalled that an executive director of a Main Street Program is unable to tell the difference between a Corporation and it's people. Part of the team effort is to show pride. Heck - why have teams. I doubt Pam was a reflection of those she works for, but quite possibly a reflection of her own prejudice and lack of knowledge. "

Hanford_1 wrote on Oct 13, 2008 1:03 PM:

" Welcome to the REAL Hanford. Let's start a farmers market on the West Side, and our own parades, and anything else. This is why a down town fails in Anywhere USA, these narrow minded folks lose site of the community effort needed to make the town successful and thrieve as a whole. The City of Hanford (downtown) is in the same league as the mainstreet folks. I am embarrased for my town (again)................ "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Oct 13, 2008 3:32 PM:

" Hanford 1 - good post. There is no need for this kind of nonsense.

The downtown is doing just fine even with huge competetion from all the new retail. Downtown has their niche and the big boxes have theirs. They don't need this kind of exclusionary attitude.

Somebody needs a smackdown from the council. "

Hanford_1 wrote on Oct 13, 2008 4:14 PM:

" Hey, we all ready heard from the Market place people...it was "remove the banners and turn your T-shirts inside out or leave." I had heard that the Mall wanted to sponsor a night and have a tent and they were told that they could because they were from the other side of the tracks. This Thursday, for those of us who want to protest, wear your shirts inside out. The funny thing is we are still going to go to the market place to support HANFORD.........perhaps we should not show and stoop to the level of the downtown folks..... "

Proud Dad wrote on Oct 13, 2008 9:06 PM:

" Great commentary HanfordCitizen....
I would have loved to see what level Pam would have taken it to, if the members had refused to leave or turn their shirts inside out.... "

Jennifer wrote on Oct 13, 2008 9:43 PM:

" Amen! Hanford 1, I think you've got the right idea!

We all know that Hanford Mall and Wal Mart aren't the only business that Pam has turned away. Why would we even bother to go to the TNMP if its run by unaccepting folks. Oh that's right, because we aren't as judgemental and close minded as her!! "

Will wrote on Oct 13, 2008 9:43 PM:

" Lets remember that the Main Street Hanford Board is no longer an elected board like it was when the Market Place was first created under its original Exectutive Director. The Board has been hand picked by our city council for quite some time now. Please keep in mind that the current Executive Director's actions represent the Main Street Hanford Board and do not reflect that of the many fine merchants in downtown Hanford that pay the double business license fee. These merchant's livelihood depends on the revitalization of downtown. Perhaps it is time to let the merchants elect the Board members again and have them hire someone whose actions are less abrasive and more effective at revitalization. "

Deb wrote on Oct 13, 2008 9:57 PM:

" Pam has instilled an us vs them attitude for a long time. Merchants continue to allow it for whatever reason. I guess it's just easier... But easy doesn't always reward one with the best returns. When Craig was the Exec Dir he knew that in order to downtown to succeed it was about the people, the community - the entire community. But, then he had a clear vision and understanding of what a Main Street Program is about. "

bluefalcon559 wrote on Oct 14, 2008 7:28 AM:

" Seems to me that it's time for changes across the board for those who manage and run Hanford and the happenings of downtown and the market place.

This was for a charity... does Hanford officals not support a charity where everyone has been affected? Obviously not! "

Kermit the Frong wrote on Oct 14, 2008 8:36 AM:

" There is nothing in Downtown for me anyway. I love Walmart! I have never been to the Thursday Thing; it's too hot. "

Mr X wrote on Oct 14, 2008 10:30 AM:

" " There is nothing in Downtown for me anyway. I love Walmart! I have never been to the Thursday Thing; it's too hot. "

What a sad, sheltered point of view. Although one which is unfortunately shared by far too many people living in the area. Hanford has one of the finest downtowns in the SJV, and it's comments like that which make me fear for its future. Wish more Hanford residents had the wherewithal to realize what a gem they have right under their noses.

Thursday Night Market is not the only event in Downtown. There are a number of evening, and indoor daytime events held by the Chamber and Mainstreet each year. For example, if any of you have not attended the Wine & Chocolate event, I highly recommend it. "

whitey wrote on Oct 14, 2008 11:17 AM:

" wow. they might as well make everyone that attends TNMP bring a utility bill for proof of residence you know, since someone might not live close enough to down town.

I have attended this TNMP a few times before, only to find a bunch of drunken adults acting fools on the dance floor, teenagers drinking and running around picking fights with their school rivals, and only few parents with their children actually buying food. while the rest of the parents turn their kids loose.

How is it fair that farmers can sell their goods (clearly they dont run their business downtown) but businesses doing good deeds for a good cause arent welcome? "

jasper wrote on Oct 14, 2008 3:23 PM:

" Yes Will and Deb, it is time to get back to the original idea of what a Main Street is meant to be. Our Main Street is not anything that it was brought here to be. Get on track MSH! or get along. We can do with new management, just like a new council, if they have been giving a nod to the current board and Ex. Dir. Bye Chin, and Sorenson is only Buford's and Chin's selection. Give us some new blood on MSH board and committees too. Let them pick their own leaders.. And finally, if they think it's only for downtown, they are sorely mistaken. It's for all Hanford.

P.S. A message to Carl.Spackler- boy, when was the last time you were downtown and looked around? More empty buildings, blighted areas,... Carl, you need to get off the golf course before you can make a statement like downtown is doing okay. It's not Carl. Call up a commercial broker and ask for a tour sometime. You'll need a 3-day pass for the full effect. Main street is supposed to help fill these vacancies Carl. "

mommamea wrote on Oct 14, 2008 3:41 PM:

" I do not exactly agree with Mr. X in regards to “Hanford being one of the finest downtowns in the SJV, and it's comments like that which make me fear for its future. Wish more Hanford residents had the wherewithal to realize what a gem they have right under their noses."

I have attended the Thur. night market several times a year. Unfortunately for the downtown area the politics have got the best of them. Asking people to turn their shirts inside out is a disgrace. Adults that step forward and volunteer their time for a cause should be applauded not turned away. Shame of you City Counsel, for allowing a lady of this sort to run the show. The wonderful corn on the cob guy, hey I wonder if he is a Wal-Mart employee/manager, would this matter? Does he run a business down town, I doubt it. "

mommamea wrote on Oct 14, 2008 3:41 PM:

" Guess what my kids and I love his corn anyway, and this is one reason we go to the market.
I totally agree with Hanford citizen "No vendor should be restricted from renting a booth or providing 'product' to another renter, even if they aren't sponsoring a worthy charitable event like Relay For Life. " "

Warden Bob wrote on Oct 14, 2008 3:43 PM:

" RESPONDEAT SUPERIOR - Lat. for the "boss has to answer for what his employees do." Usually used to refer to the concept that a principal/employer has responsibility for the actions/omissions of agents/employees

The key issue under California law is whether the act was committed in the course of carrying out the employer's business. Perez v. Van Groningen & Sons, Inc., 41 Cal.3d 962, 719 P.2d 676, 227 Cal. Rptr. 106 (1986)

The Hanford City Council has control over all appointments to the Main Street Board
and gives Main Street city tax dollars. Under the respondeat superior principal, would those who were discriminated against have the right to file suit against the city for Pam's actions?

Boy I can see the dollars signs in Bob Dowd's eyes now! Well Mr. Chin to quote Laurel and Hardy "here's another fine mess you've gotten us into". "

dose wrote on Oct 14, 2008 5:58 PM:

" walmart is one of the most disgusting symptoms of American capitalism, I support anyone and anything that is willing to admit that. Hurray for the Thursday Night Market. Also I feel I should remind some of the commentors here that the whole point of this event is to help revitalize Hanford's downtown not the mall.

I suppose Mrs. Stover wont be happy until the only place left to work is walmart. That way no one will have health care or a living wage in Hanford. "

hmm wrote on Oct 14, 2008 6:03 PM:

" What Walmart employees were asked to do is degrading and discriminatory, but truth be knownTNMP is not just discriminating against "out of district" businesses. They discriminate against businesses that are in the downtown district as well. The Fox Theatre has not been allowed to put on any concerts on "Main Street's "Thursday nights due to Main Street's threats to tow artists' buses parked in front of the Theatre. Craig Sharton used to work with the Fox and move the band and beer garden to the park on the nights it conflicted with national touring acts coming to town. That way EVERYONE could conduct business onThursday nights. The current leadership has consistently refused to do this after being asked multiple times. Preventing a business from conducting business one night a week while allowing other merchants in the same district to do what they do on those same nights is most definitely discriminatory, and discrimination of this sort is against the law. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Oct 14, 2008 9:55 PM:

" Jasper, I'm not sure which downtown you are talking about but Hanford's is doing pretty well. Compared to 10 years ago when the mall and Walmart came in, there is little vacancy and values have increased about 300%. Rents have doubled. Hanford Furniture didn't sit long and Sears is about to have a total makeover. Rents are not high enough to justify major overhauls of most of the buildings so a transformation like Visalia is not in the cards yet but the overall trend is good.

Want more people to come downtown? Light it up more at night - it's dark. Get rid of the sleazy bars. Have the city subsidize rents for restaurants for the first three years. The downtown needs more foot traffic at night and restaurants are the key. More parking, more parking, more parking.

Check out what Paso Robles has done post-earthquake with their downtown. Fantastic!

BTW Jasper, I don't play golf. "

Mr X wrote on Oct 14, 2008 10:55 PM:

" mommamea:

My apologies. Maybe you misunderstood me. I was not taking a position either way on the issue of possible exclusionary actions taken by Main Street. My platform was simple; that I do feel our downtown is one of the BEST examples in the SJV of a restored and thriving business district, that preservation and patronage of that district is important to the quality of life in our community, and the most important aspect to all of that is that the Downtown be appreciated by our local residents.

I have no beef with those who have experienced personal conflict with Main Street, as I myself have no first hand knowledge of the situation and cannot judge. However, in forcing the need to explain myself, the door's open for me to point out that those of you without your own first hand knowledge of the situation should too be cautious in passing judgment on Main Street, or anyone else, before hearing from both sides. "

aufever wrote on Oct 14, 2008 10:56 PM:

" To dose, since you seem to be illiterate from your comment. Walmart does have Healthcare and Mrs. Stover does have an appointment with her physician at Kaiser which is provided by Walmart. Further how many Downtown Businesses provide healthcare like Walmart ? In fact what Healthcare Provisions of Corporations like Gottschalks, Penney's, Target, etc. provide their employees? As to wages, I would bet that Mrs. Stover has wages far beyond your normal Hanford Employee with comparable experience. But to go to the real problem, this was a Fund Raiser for Relay For Life, a Charity that Benefits Women with Breast Cancer. This is not about Walmart but that a totally brain dead person made a decision that Walmart Employees were not allowed to be CHARITABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

SueB wrote on Oct 15, 2008 5:12 AM:

" Personally, I love TNMN but the prices on the fresh, locally grown fruits and veggies is way out of line with most local markets except Save Mart. I splurge and buy a few things, but overall it is out of my price range.

My job is to buy fruits and veggies I can afford and that certainly cannot be done at market night.

Seems strange to me that local fruits and veggies cost so much more than those grown in other areas and shipped in. Greed? Doesn't surprise me a bit. Hanford seems to have a lot of that! "

jasper wrote on Oct 15, 2008 7:49 AM:

" message to Carl.Spackler:
http://www.pasoroblesdowntown.org/
Paso Robles' Main Street Program is nationally acclaimed because it has met and EXCEEDED ALL of the requirements for a National Main Street Program. Hanford's Main Street HMS was developed to follow the California model, based on the national model. HMS has missed the mark over and over again from the moment Craig Scharton left HMS. A little over a month before his departure, an event was planned for our downtown to host of all main streets in Calif. Classes, tours, discussions, breakout sessions... Pam was involved with most of the organizing of the event. A potential of 1/2 million $ for the event by the attendees alone. What happened? With less than a week's notice, Pam pulled the plug, why?, she had no idea what to do, how to run an event other than what Craig had instructed her to do. To date, Pam does exactly what she did as Craig's assistant (Wine and Chocolate and TNMP). Your posts are very clear. You cheer for every westside development and poo-poo any discussion there is a problem with downtown. Golf/gardening/real/estate/development/denial/obstinate/whatever/wake/up/Carl! Our downtown is dying and your Pollyanna disingenuous opinions don't hold water. "

Mr X wrote on Oct 15, 2008 8:07 AM:

" Sue B:

The concepts behind Farmers Markets and "Locally Grown" are well known and easy to read up on through a simple search of the internet. I appreciate your need for finding cheep produce, and realize that we cannot all afford to pay the additional cost of locally grown and sustainably farmed produce. But the need for you to read up on the two concepts I've mentioned is evident in your ridiculous assumption that the prices are as they are because of greed. "

bluefalcon559 wrote on Oct 15, 2008 8:27 AM:

" To Dose,

Since it is clear you don't like "American Capitalism", maybe you should move to Russia... they will be communist's again very soon (some say they already are)... That way you can have the government control everything, including you're health care, and the prices of you're milk, eggs and bread!

I'll help you buy you're plane ticket; and I"m sure many of us will help you pack! "

Michaels wrote on Oct 15, 2008 9:56 AM:

" Wow ... SueB ... have you looked for fresh produce at your local supermarket lately? Talk about price comparison. I can't tell you the last time I found fresh, locally grown grapes for $1.20 per pound. In fact, all the fruits anf veggies I buy at the TNMP are affordable .. and I am helping our local farmers. How can you beat that?

MSH is about Downtown. They aren't about the mall, or WalMart, or Target. And if I remember correctly, not many folks from Hanford WANTED WalMart in town. So what happened? You noticed the prices were cheaper ... so now you are glad they are here?

I don't personally know Pam or the Board, but I know they care about down town. Rules are rules ... you can't bend them for one agency and not another. WalMart, the mall, Target ... are competing businesses ... they aren't allowed to advertise at TNMP. Period. Being a business owner ... I'm thankful of that. "

dose wrote on Oct 15, 2008 10:06 AM:

" You are right bluefalcon, I dislike American capitalism very much. It represents nothing but greed and avarice. However with that being said I do love America, which is why I voted for Obama. I want my country to return to being the greatest nation on Earth. Not the evil dictatorship that bush has turned this country into. You however seem to hate America all I ever hear from you on here is how much you hate all your fellow Americans, you're brown shirted fascist view of the world would fit right in with Hitler's Germany or Kim's North Korea. Maybe you should move I think you would be much happier. "

Big John wrote on Oct 15, 2008 10:41 AM:

" Perhaps we may be able to learn from this situation. Here’s the way I think it should have played out:

1. The Relay for Life team should have honored TNMP’s request, remembering the reason they were there and continuing in their quest to raise money aimed at finding a cure for cancer.
2. After the event they should have appeared at TNMP’s next board meeting and shared their concerns.
3. If they were dissatisfied with the outcome they should have taken their issue to the City Council.
4. If, after exhausting proper channels of communications, they still had a problem with the situation they should have then written their letter to the editor and engaged the community.

Jumping straight to step 5 has created much dissention and ill will. An analogy would be calling the international president of Safeway over an issue involving a local store manager and how your groceries were bagged. Proper decorum suggests a measured response is always better. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Oct 15, 2008 10:55 AM:

" Jasper: You explanation sounds more like you are more upset about a disfunctional Main Street association than the downtown real estate market. In reality, the market there is pretty strong. I'm not talking about what may be happening with retail sales, I'm talking about values, vacancy, rents etc.

Your strawman does not hold. My business is downtown. I shop and eat there. I also shop on the "westside" and eat there (Figarro's - yum). Both have their niches and we seem to be acheiving a pretty good balance. "

Michaels wrote on Oct 15, 2008 11:20 AM:

" and just to add ... been to any other down town lately? There are vacancies everywhere. It has nothing to do with Hanford ... it's the economy, Want to make a difference? Vote in November. "

Will wrote on Oct 15, 2008 11:43 AM:

" There are less businesses today that pay the double business license fee than when the Main Street Hanford program first started. This is verified by looking at their budget. You won't find this on their website because they seem to keep adding new businesses to their directory but don't take off the ones that are out of business or no longer downtown. One of MSH's 4 committees is Economic Restructuring and this committee is supposed to be the one bringing in new businesses. It seems that rather than finding new businesses that would contribute dollars to the Business Improvement District, Main Street tries to increase revenue by selling more beer. Main street programs and Marketplaces are designed to benefit the entire community. A vibrant and healthy downtown is an asset for everyone including the commercial coridor at 12th and Lacey. I wonder what the board would say if Wal mart wanted to pay to be a sponsor or associate member of MSH? For information on the 4 point approach to Main Street try http://www.mainstreet.org/ "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Oct 15, 2008 12:38 PM:

" MichaelS: It would be nice if the downtown thought of themselves as part of a larger retail district that is Hanford. The downtown offers their product, the neighborhood centers and superdrug stores theirs, and the regional commercial district, theirs. To exclude other parts of Hanford is just not smart. To discriminate against employees who had done a good work - but don't happen to work downtown - is foolish. "

bluefalcon559 wrote on Oct 15, 2008 4:43 PM:

" To Dose... Of all the comments you've ever made, I think you're last about me hating America tops the list of pure ignorance...

You have no clue who I am do you? lol. I have never told anyone on here that I hate them... not even Dandre. With that being said, I believe in the American dream... and I also believe in the principals and foundations that America was built on. So much in fact that I joined the Army and still serve proudly and honorably to this day. I have even answered the call of my country regardless if it is right or wrong, and fought in Iraq; All in hopes to preserve our freedoms we have here... including the right for hard working employees of a business that was built by a hard working man (Sam Walton) to volunteer their time to raise money for a charity where we have all been affected... except for Dose... who is perfect and comes from a perfect family.

Congrats Dose... you have proved to everyone on here you're intelligence level. "

bluefalcon559 wrote on Oct 15, 2008 4:45 PM:

" To Dose: One last question... how is it that you have already voted? Oh wait, you went to Ohio and already voted there... or... you must volunteer you're time to ACORN... that's it... silly me. "

Sherry wrote on Oct 15, 2008 8:10 PM:

" Carl Spackler - your very last statement is the point I was trying to make. I don't care who likes the west side or the east side. It was not about Walmart...it was about the people who work so hard to raise money for charity. Do not discriminate against them because they work on the other side of the track. Pehaps in future The Thurs. Market should have in writing a list of rules, about what is acceptable and what is not to participate in the event.

Big John, I was not part of the event, was only at work to hear how hurt and my co-workers were to be treated so shoddy. It is below the dignity of the Main Street folk. I have no doubt that Pam does a great job and her dedication is evident. Just use good judgement and seperate work from charity. This was never the intent to bash anyone but rather to open Hanfords eyes to needs of others and less about self. "

Sherry S wrote on Oct 15, 2008 8:40 PM:

" Carl Spackler - your last entry is exactly what I was trying to say. It was never my intent to bash down town Hanford as I love it. I do not think Pam is a bad person and in fact admire her for her dedication to the area. She works hard to promote our down town. She should be commended. I just want her to understand the difference between a business she opposes and the people who work there. Team Walmart was there to raise moneys for charity and not for the store. In the future, perhaps a written list of rules and regulations should be part of participating, to eliminate these situations.
Big John - I was not there when this happened and I believe in the chain of command but this was not an attempt to get anyone in trouble but was to shed light on an sad situation and possibly help those to realize respect for the individual and point out the differenc between a company and the good people who work there. "

aufever wrote on Oct 15, 2008 9:39 PM:

" I have been waiting to see all the comments and then to note that Pam allowed Walgreen's Employees to promote Walgreen's at a booth rented by Walgreen's the same night. To dose bluefalcon has served his time, if you had been reading the Sentinel, you would know that he recently returned from Iraq. Now your rhetoric sounds just like that it came from a Union Manual on how to vote and how to justify it. do you have any original thoughts? As to President Bush, I have not encountered any problems, but he only spies on suspected terrorists. are you a terrorist? if not you have nothing to fear. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Oct 15, 2008 10:25 PM:

" MichealS: That's just not true. There are not vacancies everywhere. Occupancy is stronger than at any time in the last decade. However, looking forward, there might be is the Main St. organization continues to act this way. "

dorothyd wrote on Oct 15, 2008 11:22 PM:

" Every since Wal-Mart has came to Hanford, I've heard nothing but negative things about the store. I would just like to know were all the people who sit around and put Wal-Mart down were they buy their toilet paper, dog food, cat food, and all the other products you can't buy downtown. I don't go to the Thursday night market, because I have to agree with what other people have said about the drinking and unsupervised kids running around. We all need to admit that everyone in this town goes to Wal-Mart, Target, The Mall, and all the other stores Not considered downtown. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 16, 2008 12:36 AM:

" Now back on topic, I think what happened to Sherry and the other volunteers at Market Place is absolutely appalling to say the least. Who among us has not been touched by Breast Cancer? I can think of no one I know who hasn't had that dreaded report from the doctor. We have a coalition in charge of promoting our community and what better way to promote it than dedicate a booth to charity. The Booth as mentioned was paid for and for Pam or anyone else to tell "Relay For Life" they cannot have teams, that the teams can't wear their work clothes to an event and if they do they have to turn their shirts on inside out. I wonder what would have happened if all the City Council Candidates tonight who showed up would have said; if the moderator told them to do that very same thing. When does common sense dictate that maybe policy isn't always right on for every issue in every event sponsored by the Thursday Night Market Place. All these places you are putting down drives the dollar base to afford your support. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 16, 2008 12:43 AM:

" Let me explain if not for the tax dollars collected at Wal~mart, Target, Home Depot, The Hanford Mall, soon to be Lowes, which is then returned to the city. There wouldn't be any money for donation to the Thursday Night Market Place. You just better hope those folks don't band together and have a Wednesday Night Market Place at their own locals next summer. Secondly, I think we are spending way too much time devoting our concerns only to downtown while other business areas in town suffer. It's about downtown, I remember when downtown only consisted of 7th street now we hardly give them the right to participate, why? I've learned in two different places down town businesses are taxed in two different ways, why? Who to spend that money directly on their own businesses than the business owners themselves? I thought it was the city of Hanford that planted the trees and took care of the cleaning of the streets but learned tonight funds from that second tax are used for that purpose. Sounds to me as though we are penalizing people for doing business downtown. "

HF wrote on Oct 16, 2008 12:45 AM:

" To Big John:

So this person should have been quiet as a mouse, do what they were told, and then talk quietly to the board about it? Um it's America here and I'm glad this letter was published, I think it's important to know how our politicians and people of power in the town are doing.

I think it's complete pooh and offensive that volunteers for CANCER were turned away and made to feel like crap about the company that gives them their livelyhood.

Dose:
Your thoughts on capitalism are one thing, and to a certain extent I may or may not agree with you. However, this was a community event, something to benefit families and patients of a disease. People honestly should put aside their differences for a measly two hours and just get over it. I can see what you are saying, but there are more effective ways to get "even" with Walmart than bashing their volunteers.

To the original poster: Thank you for making me aware of this situation. I'm sorry you were made to feel the way you did. "

dose wrote on Oct 16, 2008 12:10 PM:

" blue falcon, I wonder if you support sarah palin. Because she gave the keynote address at the Alaskan Independent Party's convention this year, and not only that but her husband was a member of that party up until this year. The very first priority on the list of things to do for the AIP is to seccede from the union. How patriotic of you to support a secessionist. I guess that makes mccain a patriot too.

To HF:

I get your point and I agree with you to an extent. But remember what Thomas Jefferson said " The only thing needed for evil to exist was for good men to do nothing." I realize that most of the people who work in walmarts across the country aren't evil, however their employer is and if you excuse them for helping walmart to continue to destroy America and to a larger extent the Earth then when do you speak up? "

bluefalcon559 wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:10 PM:

" Dose... there you go again, you're speaking out of your "forth point of contact", that's Airborne terminology for your butt! Ignorance is bliss... very bliss; you prove that every time you post any comments on here. Good job!

I have a question for you now... when was the last time you asked not what you're country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?

Now get back on topic Dose. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Oct 16, 2008 9:17 PM:

" Well said Fred. Bravo. "

dose wrote on Oct 17, 2008 7:26 AM:

" blue falcon, you are the one who led our conversation off topic with your comments about your military career and how any one who serves in the armed forces is somehow a better American than someone who hasn't. If you want me to stay on topic then I suggest you do the same. I'm wondering where your defens is for palin's seccessonist ties, you probably don't have one. Which is why all of a sudden you want to get back on topic. I also have another question for you. Since you say that all military personnel are better Americans than the rest of us. I wonder if you support Timothy McVeigh he was a Marine before he became a terrorist. So by following your logic he is a patriot and a great American since he served. Why do you support terrorism blue falcon? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 17, 2008 7:58 AM:

" dose, Blue Falcon if you don't mind I have this one; we primarily spend our time supporting those who do drugs and abuse alcohol with our tax dollars. That leaves little time left to support anything other than our own families.

I have one name for ya dose Ayers look it up, do the research, learn what he did in his youth. The college never should have hired him for his deeds as a protestor, bomber and there's that word again orgainizer.

Put that one in your pipe/bong and smoke it! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 17, 2008 12:25 PM:

" I would like to address this to the City Council of Hanford: With the reported incident that took place I would like to recommend that you take the following action. I would ask that you direct Pam to provide a booth free of charge to the "Relay For Life Organization" all through next years Thursday Night Market Place Events for calendar year 2009. Also send an open letter asking them to participate in subsequent years at a reduced rent, since it is a charity.
I think it responsible of you to allow them to place whatever advertisement that applies to the event at each event regardless of who's name is contained on it. If they care enough to support such a good charity, allow them to publicize it.
I further recommend that Pam send a letter of apology to the effected members of Relay for Life and Walmart employees. I think these are the minimum actions you should consider. These people of the community were working within the community for the good of everyone. Relay for Life wouldn't discriminate against Downtown Merchants if they needed their services, we shouldn't discriminate against them. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 17, 2008 4:21 PM:

" dose' if you really want to be extreme about it, Corporal Adolph Hitler also wore a uniform and he was considered a patriot of Germany. He slaughtered many people of the jewish and other nationalities on the basis of their skin color, hair color and eye color. He formed a boot camp and purposely bred human beings who were white with blonde hair blue eyes to become a master race. So I get your point there are extremists.

But Blue Falcon did none of these things he wore the uniform and wears the uniform of the United States of America. That's was the country and it's allies who defeated Adolph Hitler for his crimes to other human beings and his dictatorial conquests of other countries.

If you can't see the difference then perhaps this will help, do we hate all actors because John Wilkes Booth killed President Lincoln? Do we hate all Germans because of what Hitler did? I don't believe we do oh and Booth wore civilian clothes but was still an operative for the organization. Organization, seems to pop up regularly lately. Isn't NOBAMA an organizer? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 17, 2008 4:35 PM:

" dose' any supporter of this nation and what it stands for as a democracy, would take pride in calling; "Blue Falcon and his brothers and sisters who have served and continue to serve PATRIOTS!"

Anyone else, is clearly a civilian with no intentions of supporting this country, it's service members or democracy. I believe that is the deffinition of a communist. That deffinition follows for all you wonderful liberals who are reading this: "one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or revolutionary activities" So anyone falling in this category please read this again. For all others I am sorry I had to waste your time giving the uninformed an education. Those of us who have been in uniform already get it.

Blue Falcon once again Thank You for your service and those officers who served above and enlisted who served with you, for your continued dedication to our Wonderful Country. She isn't perfect, but she is the closest thing to it. Because of people like you, people like dose' live in a free society with more rights for the indidvidual than in any other nation. God Bless Us All! "

jetnoise wrote on Oct 17, 2008 6:48 PM:

" We took a walk around the marketplace last night... There were MANY places 'not from downtown' allowed to be there... So it seems its more of a personal preference by the organizer and not a fair treatment for all...
Just in the short walk we took there was Verizon (by Target), and a Mexican food restaurant (not from downtown) that was setup directly in front of the Mexican food place that IS on 7th! There was a fruit stand from Kingsburg, and Visalia Harley Davidson (those two arent even from Hanford at all, let alone 'downtown'!)
So they cant hide behine saying its for 'downtown merchants'... "

Warden Bob wrote on Oct 18, 2008 9:14 AM:

" Watchdog Fred Wrote:
That deffinition follows for all you wonderful liberals who are reading this: "one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or revolutionary activities" So anyone falling in this category please read this again. For all others I am sorry I had to waste your time giving the uninformed an education. Those of us who have been in uniform already get it.

Watchdog I give you respect because you put on the uniform and defended freedom. I too am a vet but your simplistic bashing of all things left of center is getting old. I don't try to paint those on the right with the huge brush used by so many when bashing the left. If you draw a Social Security check, get unemployment insurance, medicare or veterans benefits you can thank the left. "

chuck21 wrote on Oct 18, 2008 5:41 PM:

" Where is the fairness in asking walmart to turn their shirts inside out or leave? How many vendors out there are really from out of town and how much of the produce for sale is out of the local area? I bet if target set up a booth they would probably not be asked to do the same. Folks just find it easy to bash on walmart. Downtown Hanford does not have the merchants to meet everyones daily needs plain and simple. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 19, 2008 1:08 AM:

" Warden Bob, I agree to disagree with you. The left that voted for and voted those programs in is not the left of today. The left of today won't be satisfied until everyone is supporting them and their wishes, wants and desires. That is not what Franklin Roosevelt wanted or had in mind with Social Security. If the Leftest would have left Social Security along when I made my contributions to it, or paid back the money they robbed from it, there wouldn't be a Social Security Problem in this country. I paid it in, why isn't it there any longer? "

dose wrote on Oct 19, 2008 8:43 AM:

" Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 17, 2008 6:35 PM:

"Anyone else, is clearly a civilian with no intentions of supporting this country, it's service members or democracy. I believe that is the deffinition of a communist."

So according to fred anyone who hasn't served in the military is a communist who doesn't support America.

I guess like blue falcon fred thinks that Timothy McVeigh is a patriot even though he is a terrorist who killed Americans. But they are willing to let that slide because McVeigh was a former Marine.

And I've still yet to hear a defense from either of you as to why you support an American hating seccessionist for vice-president. Talk about unAmerican, I think secceding from the union is about as unAmerican as you can get. But I guess it is ok for bluefalcon and fred to support that sort of thing since they say they have served in the military. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 20, 2008 5:26 AM:

" dose' be it our service or your lack of it, it does seem to be a jealousy aspect for you. You don't have to be jealous you could go down and raise your right arm anytime you get ready. I presume you are of legal age and not too old to serve your country. But you have it wrong I don't consider civilians not to be patriots, just those like you, Scott Tucker, Dandre', Jeff and many more who want to bash the country but don't offer solutions or volunteer your services to change what you consider to be wrong with it.
Just as Collin Powell stepped forward and announced he is backing your candidate. How hypocritical can you get. This the man who sits before the U.N. and shows picture after picture of suspected sights of WMD in Iraq and when none is found resigns and hides away from public view. Then has the gall in an article to say race wasn't the only reason he chose to back Obama. Indicating race was a reason for backing him and all along Nobama has been playing the race card at every opportunity. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 20, 2008 5:39 AM:

" dose' you and your group of hero's who have done nothing to represent and defend the constitution of the United States. Will be the first to run and hide under it's vast umbrella of civil rights, and cry foul when you think something doesn't measure up to or provide you with the Socialist program you care to accept money from. Just like in Iraq War 1 win your idol Collin Powell stepped forward to take full credit as if he had single handedly won the war. Anyone who knows anything about that war knows H. Norman Swarzkopf planned every detail and won it on the ground. But Collin Powell accepted credit for it's success and gained favor in politics by doing so. After Swarzkopf's performance he could have won the election for president had he ran. Preventing your favorite adulterous, liberal President from ever serving. That was a bad call by the Republican Party. George Sr. should not have sought a second term in office. Swartzcopf would have made Bill Clinton a forgotten nobody Govenor from Arkansas. Another boo boo by Nobama why didn't he pick Hilldog as VP? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 20, 2008 6:52 AM:

" To Warden Bob; if I said anything that insulted you I apologize but I was simply responding to a puppy still wet behind the ears. dose' wants and claims every right we have fought for in this country yet refuses to show respect for those willing to wear the uniform. He's called Blue Falcon countless names and here is a guy who spent the previous year fighting for our country in the Middle East. He doesn't deserve dose' ignorant name calling, you and I know what it takes to put on that uniform and travel into harms way. Especially today there are fewer and fewer patriots who are willing to place theirselves in harms way for this country. So some puppy like dose isn't gonna call them names or disrespect them on my watch. I didn't stand for it during Vietnam and I won't tolerate it today. Our brothers and sisters have sacrificed too much for this country to be disrespected or called names. NOBAMA says he dosn't like the National Anthem because it talks of bombs bursting in air, that song is written as a tribute to our nation. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 20, 2008 2:36 PM:

" dose' Tim McViegh was no more a patriot than Charles Manson was a preacher, actor or anything else he proclaimed to be.
You are wrong not everyone who doesn't serve in the military is a communisit just subversives like yourself. You want all the rights and cry for the Constitution we swore to uphold everytime something goes in a direction you don't like. While in the next breath you run our country down, you speak down to supporters of the war effort and you show total disrespect for anyone who wears or ever wore the uniform of this country. It's men like Colin Powell, who lied to the United Nations, who supports Obama, that has let this country down. Not the average Joe/Jane who chooses to support and defend the constitution of the United States from enemies both foreign and domestic. Powell sat before the United Nations showing picture after picture of suspected WMD and when none was found. He never stepped forward and admitted it was a pack of lies. You blame Bush for receiving false information while Powell received the same information from his intelligence bureau, now who do you really blame. "

Proud Dad wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:04 PM:

" "NOBAMA says he dosn't like the National Anthem because it talks of bombs bursting in air, that song is written as a tribute to our nation. "

This was an e-mail that turned out to be false per Snopes

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/stance.asp "

Deb wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:53 PM:

" Watchdog, please provide the basis for your facts that Colin Powell lied? Did he not obtain the information he provided from the Bush Administration and the CIA?

Seems to me that "if" there are facts to support your theory that Colin Powell lied, as a patriot of your country you'd provide the evidence. No one else seems to have proven the evidence either, whats up with that?

Or is it simply that he was played by the administration - and his one big mistake was having too much loyalty - blind loyalty. "

michaels wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:54 AM:

" jetnoise:

If you know anything about market ... which apparently you don't ... any business can come to the TNMP so long as there isn't a competing business downtown. Last I checked, we don't have a Harley store ...

I have no idea about the Mexican food place. But obviously the restaurant they were set up in front of couldn't care less.

I don't agree with half of these blogs - there are ALWAYS two sides to every story. However, that is just my opinion and like all of yours ... who cares. "

Mr X wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:48 AM:

" Watchdog Fred:

First of all, I would like to thank you for your service to our great country. I myself have not served, but reserve a special place in my heart for those who have served in the past, and who are serving today. That said, I need clarification on something you posted:

"You are wrong not everyone who doesn't serve in the military is a communisit just subversives like yourself. "

So, from that statement it would appear you are implying that everyone who has not served or is not serving is either a communist or subversive? "

Proud Dad wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:39 PM:

" michaels

Who is the Relay for Life competing with downtown? This wasn't a Wal-Mart booth; it was a Relay for Life booth sponsored in part by Wal-Mart. The Relay for Life wouldn't be as nearly as successful, if it wasn't for the money and the volunteers that come from the corporate sponsors. "

hanford43 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:09 PM:

" I was disappointed to see the Walmart employees
at the booth treated so disrespectful by Pam.
That said, I think the TNFM has been very
successful and has added something to bring
the people of Hanford together.
I would like to see Main Street be more aggressive
about bringing businesses into town and work on
the image of West Main street. What about trying
to get a multi-screen arena seating movie theatre downtown. The one in Lemorre is great!! Also,
Main Street fund raisers are fine and needed but,
lets not act like a savings/loan hording the money.
Remember Main Street is a public service agency
and a prukdent reserve is fine, but you are not defined by the amount of money you hold in reserve but by your service to downtown Hanford. "

Sherry S wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:16 PM:

" To Michaels, Who does Walmart compete with down town?? Not a single business. This was not about Walmart at all. The moneys for charity (Local) do not come from the store. I do not care if Walmart has a booth down town, because what would we promote? This was simply a Charity event. BTW, we did reach our goal of $10,000.00 which was raised by associates doing bake sales, breakfast burritos, hot dog lunches etc. No money was raised by Corporate Walmart to add to the pot,as that is a seperate donation and is very large, but our money raised locally was by associates & as was pretty close to 1/10 of all moneys raised by a single sponsor. Way beyond anyone elses. I do want you to be aware that we did give 100% for the new canopy to the carousel & christmas tree at the civic center to light up at Chirstmas. If you want I could go on and on about the moneys Walmart gives back to Hanford orginations over an over but that is for another blog. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Oct 21, 2008 9:01 PM:

" Sherry S: Kudos for the amount your group raised for Relay. That is fantastic. No matter what Main Street says or does, rest assured your group did a wonderful thing and thanks for your hard work. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:46 PM:

" Mr. X I apologize if that is how it sounded in my comment. My comment was directed at a select few who know who I am talking about. They continually run down our country have nothing but ill to impart in every blog and offer no resolution for changing what they complain about. They think we should reel in our military to our own shores and protect them and only them, I don't know if you remember but that is exactly what we did and provoked an attack on Pearl Harbor, once before. Our current war is not with any single country it is with all countries, George W. said you are either with us or against us and he meant that word for word. That's why in my comment I said if it pertains to you, evidently it does not pertain to you. So you didn't have to read it twice to understand it's content. I was not calling all civilians communist in anyway shape or form. You are welcome for my service and I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat, because it was my pleasure. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:54 PM:

" Sherry, Congratulations and Good Job, this year on Relay For Life. It is good to know that even with the let down by our fine city incumbents and their policy that you still met your goal. I have yet to hear a response from any of them over my blog addressed to them here, evidently they are still unaware/ignoring the issue. For that I once again apologize, the incumbents not only aren't a giving bunch (unless you are an outside/out of town developer) but their manners need a little dressing up as well.

Perhaps next year you might find a better place to locate your booth and receive even larger donations? Since the city doesn't want to comply, post the location in the blogs next year and I bet you get a great turn out, just from this little community gathering affectionately known as the Hanford Sentinel Blogs. We disagree on a lot but I don't think a responsible charity and breast cancer is one of them. I for one would be honored to donate. I've said it before, I don't know many households cancer hasn't effected. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:13 PM:

" michaels wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:54 AM:

Based upon your yard stick, was there anyone else working charity on "Relay For Life" on that Thursday Night? Since the chairman organized the rental and teams I would suggest it was the Wal~mart employees only for that charity that night. So who were they competing against? Does that then mean that if I build a medical clinic/hospital in town, I can be down at TNMP every Thursday all summer long, like Adventist Health. If you want to point fingers at monopolies you need go no farther, they soon will be taking over yet another Hospital in the area in Kingsburg, CA. That will give them four hospitals within a 45 mile radius and we all know what hospital bills look like these days. They only have a handfull of competitors even on the clinic level in the area. Without the options and competition I guarantee you medical costs will continue to go up, up, up. I've never seen a more profitable non-profit in all my born days. I guess if you keep expanding and keep acquiring you don't show a profit? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:27 PM:

" michaels wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:54 AM:
Now that I've played devils advocate and shown you businesses that are monopolizing in the area, let me add this: If not for the Adventist Hospital and it's programs Kingsburg and Selma both would be closed at this very minute. So they are doing good things, but because they are in the business they are in, no one wants to point a finger at a religous backed non-profit. But in the monopoly therum they rule in the Central Valley in their category.
Yet everyone harbors such illwill and ill feelings with Wal~mart and others at 12th and Lacey Blvd. but if you would do the research and see what Wal~mart and Target gives to local schools every year you'd be surprised. They are the silent contributors when it comes to the classrooms. The information is put out there but people ignore it, or complain because it isn't more. So ask yourself this question when was the last time you saw a Downtown Business post how much they gave a school? When was the last time you saw downtown back a charity? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:35 PM:

" michaels wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:54 AM:
If you are gonna compare good neighbors you have to compare all their deeds or lack there of. Of course Downtown Business doesn't have the money to give to schools and charity the big guys do, especially with their special tax for doing business to begin with in Downtown. But it wouldn't hurt for the city to give back by making the limited recreation for our children free of political and financial gain. They have spoofed up the old Fire House with new paint, have it inspected by the cities own inspector and turn the building over to the Recreation Department and Senior Citizens for a meeting place. Has anyone besides me noticed the Buford Stations aren't carrying the Texaco Brand any longer? Another cost cutting move to save money in hard times I would suggest? So much for all that goodwill, and customer base to the new owners. Bad decision, hurt sales and profits. Maybe they just took down the old signs and have new one's on order? Yeah Right! Thought I'd throw it out there & see if anyone noticed? "

Proud Dad wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:52 AM:

" Fred writes: “Our current war is not with any single country it is with all countries….”

That makes a lot of sense. It has been proven that we need allies and cannot do everything ourselves. We are so strapped right now; we can’t take much more on without resorting to Nuclear. Last time I checked we didn’t “win” the Vietnam War and we aren’t doing so great with the Iraq War either. We can’t win against people that consider it an honor to die. We haven’t even been able to take out Osama Bin Laden. "

Proud Dad wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:53 AM:

" cont:

Fred also wrote “They think we should reel in our military to our own shores and protect them and only them, I don't know if you remember but that is exactly what we did and provoked an attack on Pearl Harbor, once before”.

We were in the “Great Depression” at that time. We couldn’t afford to be the world’s 911 force at that time and the Japanese felt it was a good time to try to conquer us at that time.

Do we need to protect our assets and our weaker allies? Of course, but we need to bring some much needed focus back on our country, does Katrina bring back fond memories on how we couldn’t help ourselves? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:35 PM:

" To: Proud Dad wrote on Oct 23, 2008 11:52 AM:
Boy, have I been waiting for this opportunity for going on 38 years now. You are right we didn't win Vietnam, do you know why? Because of a bunch of draft dodging liberal heart jerks who would rather burn their draft cards & run to Canada than fight. They protested just like people are beginning to do now and the government caved and gave in, but if we keep Obama out of this one we stand a very good chance of winning. Because John McCain isn't gonna let a bunch of hippies take this one away from the valant men and women who have stepped up and put theirselves in harms way to win it. Also evidently you failed to read the remark where I stated what George W. did you are "either with us or against us." That still leaves room for those who want to support us in this war and we do have a coalition. You make me wonder how proud your Dad was and if you have duel citizenship? The same old rhetoric out of your crowd! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:43 PM:

" Proud Dad wrote on Oct 23, 2008 11:53 AM:
Funny you mentioned we were in a depression and couldn't get involved during WWII. Yet we were mass producing tanks, planes and ammunition for Great Britian long before we ever entered the war. In fact many say the war effort is what brought us out of the great depression. So much for your argument about the depression keeping us out of the war.
What many forget is what ended that war was the enginuity of a combined effort by several brilliant people in the development of the nuclear weapon. What has kept us out of wars with Cuba and Russia and vaious other radical countries is the threat of that same nuclear weapon. Now Iran is cooking up their own and you want to what, have Obama go sit down with the President of Iran and organize our extinction? "Walk softly and carry a big stick", remember those comments Proud Dad? You know you shouldn't make comments in the kitchen about the battlefield so far away and removed from your own life. Not many wars were ever won from the kitchen! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:51 PM:

" Proud Dad wrote on Oct 23, 2008 11:53 AM:
Do you hide under the rocks when the reports on Iraq are announced. We just pulled 8,000 marines out of Falujah, remember that hard fought piece of real estate you nay sayers said; "What are you there for you'll never get the insurgents out". Well guess what they went running and the Iraqi forces can now handle the area on their own. Ye of little faith in the military, should go visit Scott Tucker in Switzerland where you'll feel safe. I don't hear you pointing to those accomplishments in your march to condem our war effort and disapprove of the troops. Do you honestly think we lost vietnam because of the boots on the ground and the support from the air land and sea that was provided? Look no farther than LBJ who didn't seek a second term and General Westmoreland & the mirror for the reason we lost that war. Johnson didn't seek reelection, he knew he micro managed Vietnam & caused the men and officers on the ground to lose, it's hard to win when you can't shoot until they shoot first. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:58 PM:

" Proud Dad wrote on Oct 23, 2008 11:53 AM:
If you know so much about Vietnam then you know Johnson sent Guardsman into that conflict with one clip of ammo and no supplies to fight gorilla's intrenched in jungle warfare. You'll also know McNamara micro managed the rifle in that war and refused to spend the money to chrome plate it and prevent a jamming problem because it cost $3 a rifle to do it. We dropped untold quantities of bombs on Vietnam but couldn't spend a few bucks a rifle to keep servicemen from losing fire fights with a jammed weapon. Many of whom were killed because they had lost their first line of defense. Why because a politician wanted to run the military instead of letting the qualified officers and men run it. I think we did an outstanding job in Vietnam with all the untold networks working against us to prevent a successful completion of that war. Politicians, civilians, contractors, protestors, all contributed to the downfall of the Vietnam War. If you were any of those ,you shouldn't be proud of the fact. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:06 PM:

" Proud Dad wrote on Oct 23, 2008 11:53 AM:
We had the capability to make Vietnam look like Hiroshima or Nagasaki at any time the President gave us the word. Would you have felt better about it, if he had? Sometimes protestors shouldn't be involved in something they know nothing about. Just like Thursday Night Market Place and there handling of this incident, who did they really attempt to hurt? "Relay For Life", that is who and who does that eventually hurt. Women who suffer from breast cancer, be proud Pam for all you do for your fellow woman with this killer disease! Be sure and tell your parents what a great success you are to Thursday Night Market Place and all you do for the entire community of Hanford. A community you claim to support and be proud to live in, but I guess it just depends on what shirt you wear and where you work as to the availability of that support? "

Paul wrote on Oct 24, 2008 9:37 AM:

" No matter what the subject, WDF always gets his two cents in about the Vietnam War and never ending rantings about politics. He really needs to start his own web page and leave some space for the rest of Hanford to include common sense. "

Deb wrote on Oct 24, 2008 8:32 PM:

" Hey, Paul - excellent idea! I'd even donate my time to put up his very own blog where he can have links to all the neocon websites on the web just to make his self feel better. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:07 AM:

" One thing about it Paul at least I understand my place and my job that is more than I can say for many of you.

Paul wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:37 AM:

" No matter what the subject, WDF always gets his two cents in about the Vietnam War and never ending rantings about politics. He really needs to start his own web page and leave some space for the rest of Hanford to include common sense. "

I guarantee you if I started my own blog it would be very popular in this community. Because it would allow for everyone to have their say, even Vietnam Veterans whom you evidently don't like, especially when they call the kettle black. I knew I nailed you in those last responses. So where was your headquarters in the 60"s Hait - Ashbury! or Vine Street in Los Angeles? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:15 AM:

" When it comes to monopolizing the cite, I don't see you missing a lick there Deb. If I didn't put in my two cents their would never be an intelligent conversation,if they had to rely on you and Paul.
You both are leaning so far to the left it is a wonder you don't fall over. What's the matter mommy ran out of mommies milk and you two weren't through nursing? Whine, Whine, Whine you two ought to try some wine then maybe you could cope better with us neocons. When John McCain and Sarah Palin start calling the shots next year you will see how a country is suppose to be ran. Obama can go back to his knickers and speech giving and organize a trip to the sand box for you two. Perhaps a little service to your country might change your liberal tongues from wagging to the left? I could just see you both in flack jackets and writing letters to the Senator who can save the world. If he could just find his votes needed to run the country. He's short this go round. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:21 AM:

" Paul just a moment you made me laugh so hard I fell out of my chair. Common sense and you that is like saying milk and cookies your system can't take the sugar and dairy hit all at once. One thing I've learned in my conversations with you is sense just isn't very common in your conversations. Not good sense any way.
You totally ignored my comments and what your preferences were, they weren't rantings they were serious over your head questions, quite obviously. You know no facts about Vietnam but think you are a master on the subject. The closest you ever got to the military might have been at an air show at NAS Lemoore, but you consider yourself an authority even on the current war. But had no idea of the troop withdrawal in Falujah, that speaks volumes to your track record of knowledge. Perhaps if you paid more attnetion to the news and less time putting fighting men and women down you'd have a better understanding of Iraq. In case you haven't heard freedom, really isn't free, it comes at a heavy cost in life and limb. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:27 AM:

" Anything to get people's minds off the TNMP and what Pam did, is that it Paul? Is that how you roll?. Those responses weren't even directed toward you, they were directed in response to Proud Dad and his comments. So once again you butted into a conversation, that you weren't even in and you talk about me having to put my two cents in. Well back when I was growing up 2 cents bought a lot of 2 for a penny candy, guess I figure short responses cost as much as long one's on here. I do believe they are the same price right, free? If you don't want a response don't place your nose where your eyes should be. Nice doing business with you. "

Will wrote on Oct 25, 2008 7:56 PM:

" To WdF
Thanks, I always enjoy your first comment. Then when I see the second, third or fourth or more, I just scroll past them. I agree so much with what you say the first time and enjoy your commentary very much. I don't care to read your entire book in the Sentinel comment section however. If the Sentinel won't give you your own blog, maybe you should create your very own. That way so many of us could enjoy more of what you have to say as we choose. I'm sure you will criticize me, but you have a lot to offer and this is just a suggestion so all of your words would be read and taken more seriously. After your first comment you could always place your blog site address so we could read the rest of the story, If you ran for City Council, I would probably vote for you. I appreciate your enthusiasm and ideas. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 27, 2008 5:42 PM:

" Will thanks for your compliments, I think! What was that line by Jack Nicholson, oh yeah! "Truth you don't want the truth, you can't handle the truth!" and I won't bore you with his waking up so many yards from the border every morning where he was a target.

I am passionate about this city and growing up here and all the wiseacres who think they know better than the people what's good for this town. Did you here that "Danny Boy"? As I've stated I like Dan Chin, I just think as a City Council person he is washed up, done, caput and should not have sought office again. He wouldn't be where he is in the slot right now if not for all those businesses buying him off and you know that's what happened. Those businesses want that three story parking garage, for what I don't know, most the time downtown looks like a ghost town after 5:00 p.m. anymore. If you don't drink or play cards in a bar, you aren't down town. I've never seen so many businesses close their doors when the working stiffs, get off. "

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