Subscribe Now Mobile Site Place an Ad E-Edition Email Updates Obituaries Classifieds Find a Job Find a Car Real Estate Contact Us
Currently
45°
Clear

Advertisement

FREE ARCHIVE SEARCH



Opinion

CLASSIFIEDS


Advertisement


Free Ad

Place an ad
in print and online, 24/7 for free, select the Clean Sweep option. Unable to submit Real Estate, Services, and Business Investements at this time.

Get a Subscription

Map the Valley

Subscriber/
Reader Services

Subscribe Now
Contact Customer Service

Gay marriage is against God's law

Editor: Well, it's all over but the shouting. The election that is. But I was just thinking; you know how when tenants move out of a rental house, how they always leave a mess? It's always something that the landlord or the new tenant has to clean up. Well, I was just thinking of the mess that Bush is leaving for President-elect Obama to clean up after he leaves the White House. The financial situation, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, all the banks that are closing their doors, not to mention the auto industry or the homeowners who are losing their homes.

I saw Bush on TV this morning and the interviewer told him that his ratings were the lowest that they have ever been. His response, "It doesn't really bother me, I never consider these things." In other words, who cares, I've got mine. With his presidency at the end of its term, what would he care?

My second item I would like to bring up is the demonstrations that are going on concerning Proposition 8. Hasn't this thing been put down by the people before, several times? But they still keep coming back.

You know their only platform they are fighting for is an immoral unnatural act. Whether it is against the church, the Bible, or God's laws, people should consider that two people of the same sex, who have a sexual experience, are committing an unnatural, immoral act.

A few years ago you didn't hear too much of the gay communities; then they had the "don't ask, don't tell," when they were allowed to serve in the armed services. Then we heard of "coming out of the closet." Since then they are all over the place. But I can't believe that all those people demonstrating are gay. I do believe they ought to step back and take a good look at what they are trying to bring into our homes, because that's where it's going. How will you explain it to your children when they ask you why those two men are kissing?

There is more to gays and lesbians marrying, there is also the exposure to HIV and AIDS. As far as I know, they still have not found a cure for this devastating illness. And who is going to pay for all this medical treatment? We are, the taxpayers.Maybe AIDS is God's way of getting even.

Joe Flores

Hanford

(Nov. 18, 2008)

POST A COMMENT

 

Hanfordsentinel.com encourages readers to engage in civil conversation with their neighbors. Comments that are submitted are not posted to the site immediately. They go into a queue to be moderated and may take several hours to be reviewed, particularly if they are posted after normal office hours.

We reserve the right to remove comments in total that violate our code of conduct. If you want to report a violation, please e-mail editor@HanfordSentinel.com

For more information please read our Terms of use, and Rules of the Road.

 


Please log in to post comments
*Member ID:
*Password:
  Forgot Your Password?
 
If you don't have an account you can create one for free by clicking the link below.
CREATE ACCOUNT
The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Alan G wrote on Nov 18, 2008 1:46 PM:

" Oy Vey! "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:25 PM:

" Hey Alan,

I didn't know you were Jewish.

What a mensch! "

Scott Tucker wrote on Nov 19, 2008 2:07 AM:

" This imbecilic letter to the editor does not really warrant a response. Nevertheless, here I am feeling the need to respond to such blatant ignorance.

It is hard to believe that, in our day and age, some people still actually believe and spread such -- for a lack of a better term -- fecal matter. I guess it is a testament to the power of hatred and bigotry.

What will I say to my child when s/he asks why two men are kissing? The answer is not a difficult one. I will simply say that those two men are expressing their love for each other, and there is absolutely nothing wrong or immoral about expressing love. What is wrong and immoral is expressing hate, and this letter is a fine example of how to do just that.

Again Mr. Flores provides us readers with another dose of high quality dribble. "

jeff wrote on Nov 19, 2008 11:12 AM:

" It doesn't matter what the Bible says about homosexuality. The Bible is not responsible for American law. The Bible has nothing to do with how many Americans live their lives. To some of us the Bible is nothing more than a bad sci-fi/horror/fairy tale.

If it is so ummoral or unnatural why is it homosexual relationships occur in nature? If it is so immoral why is it you can find homsoexual relationships occuring in history before the Bible was even written? "

Melissa wrote on Nov 19, 2008 3:06 PM:

" Once again here is someone who is on a soap box, yes we are protesting, guess what many Amreicans do so when they feel something happening is not fair,yet so many people are putting homosexuals down for expressing their rights to speach. Seems to me that there is group that will not be happy until we are silent and live in our closets again. I have news for all of you, We are Americans too, just because we are gay does not mean we surrendered our rights as citizens of this country. Now as for HIV/AIDS. Mr. Flores comment really made no sense, do you think that those diseases do not happen in the heterosexual world? Do your research it effects all people in this country. I guess its just easier to blame others for it huh? Gods way of getting even? So what is the reason when a child contracts the disease from it mother? Or when a straight male contracts it from sleeping around, maybe even with a protitute. Guess what HIV/AIDS effects many people and sometime like in a childs case they do not have anything for god to pay them back for. That comment is sick. "

Angie wrote on Nov 19, 2008 3:19 PM:

" Jeff- It's called sin. That's why homosexuality has always existed. It's sin. People want to endulge in whatever the flesh cries out for. I know that to most people (not some people, MOST people) don't regard the Bible as a standard of living but that's exactly what it is. To most people the message of Jesus Christ is repulsive yet they've never given it a chance. "

Kermit the Frog wrote on Nov 19, 2008 4:06 PM:

" You are of course presupposing a true existence of a "God," which everyone knows is up to your own belief system. It is NOT universal. Ever try telling a gay person they "chose" wrong? I didn't think so. They are born that way; it's not a choice. No one chooses to live a life of scrutiny. Be a little more tolerant. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 19, 2008 5:17 PM:

" Once again, ex-resident Tucker attacks the man - despite, or in spite of, Mr. Flores' right to freedom of speech.

I wonder what this Swiss teacher would teach his children about safe homosexual sex when they ask him for guidance in this matter.

Would he follow his heart and describe exactly what to do and how to do it - safely and exactly how nature intended it to be done?

How do you teach your children that homosexuality and the gay sex act is normal and healthy and a beautiful thing, Scott?

How? "

Cammy wrote on Nov 19, 2008 5:49 PM:

" To Jeff and Scott Tucker,

I agree with you100%. It's a sad sad world filled of bigotry and hatred. Did you know that since the elections, the hate crimes have gone up 6%?

And with all this junk talk that AlanG, and Alihandero keep saying, it's only gonna get worse. There is a few more that i would name but they havn't posted a blog yet,(surprised & shocked!) But i know it will just be a matter of time, so this regaurds them as well. All the hatred you bring. Lets go back in time when 911 happened? That was a tragic day. The same people who were rude to one another, were there for each other when this dark day happened. People forgot why they were so uptight and angry for, and they helped each other get through a very difficult time.
Now i ask you to those that appose me because i'm a lesbian. Do you think they ever stop to think if that person is straight or gay? It didn't matter because our country was being attacked. United we stand right? Well, what about now? Loose the bigotry, life is too short. "

Alan G wrote on Nov 19, 2008 6:53 PM:

" Cammy, I suggest you re-read all of my previous posts on this subject matter and then get back to me. "

dose wrote on Nov 19, 2008 7:20 PM:

" The day God can arrest me is the day I will care what his laws are. Until then tell God to keep his mouth shut. "

Cammy wrote on Nov 19, 2008 9:03 PM:

" Alan G
Sorry Alan. I typed your name in error. Please forgive me. :) Dis-reguard the comment directed towards you. "

crystal wrote on Nov 19, 2008 9:34 PM:

" Ok Ok Ok Simmer down people...First off, lesbians and gays are not the only reason for the spreading of HIV/AIDS.Heterosexuals have it too and spread it as well as drug addicts.Letting homosxuals marry would not be bring sqwat into anyones house.If you don't like it then close your eyes and ears.If your kid sees two men kissing, tell them they are expressing love because love is special and infinite and anyone can make as much as they want.As far as the armed forces...I served my time.There was the so called don't ask don't tell policy which was a fluke cause they sure did ask me,I didn't even answer and they still discharged me for it.I think I got lost on my way home though cause I left the home of the free to go fight and came home to a country that is discriminateing and TAKING AWAY civil rights.I think if they want to protect marriage than make divorce illegal.If I want to commit an IMMORAL act,thats my bussiness.It doesn't effect you!Mind your own bussiness.Live your life and let me live mine.Your finding a greater population of homosexuals everyday because we are no longer hiding in the dark. "

Big Picture wrote on Nov 19, 2008 9:38 PM:

" Wow, I can't believe what I just read. It never occurs to these types of people that not everyone believes in their god, or any god for that matter. They just spew out bigotry and self proclaimed moral superiority and hide behind their religion. This type of mentality is exactly the reason we don’t have true separation of church and state. I don’t care who marries who, just like I don’t care what god you pray to, that is until you or the government tells me I can’t. At that that point I have a problem. Some argue religion holds our society together; I would argue it dams it. "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Nov 19, 2008 10:19 PM:

" Its the kindness of God that leads us to repentence, Joe. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 20, 2008 12:43 AM:

" To: dose wrote on Nov 19, 2008 9:20 PM:

The day God can arrest me is the day I will care what his laws are. Until then tell God to keep his mouth shut. "

Note to self - "Self don't stand anywhere near this guy the day God answers him". "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 20, 2008 12:50 AM:

" To: Scott Tucker

"What will I say to my child when s/he asks why two men are kissing"?

Well maybe you better have one, before you decide exactly how you are gonn talk to he/she/it. Or at least buy a doll at the store so you can practice. Second thought maybe you should buy two dolls one for you and one for he/she/it.

How is the weather in the Alps,by the way? Any sign of those Russians from your vantage point sneaking up those mountains, yet? Be sure and sound the Blog Alarm if you see 'em coming. Sarah has our northern most state covered, you know.

Obama said he campaigned in 57 states and believed he had one more to go, did you catch that interview. Randy, saved it for you just check out "How Obama Got Elected".

Be sure and sign up for the military mandantory service board now won't you? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 20, 2008 1:10 AM:

" To: Cammy,
Speaking as one blogger to another for a moment. I think you are probably a very loving and caring person. We just differ on opinions on the same sex marriage issue. But from a perspective you aren't familiar with, divorce is not anything I would wish on my worst enemy. I've been through two, both behind adulterous affairs commited by my wives. Did I divorce them under that provision, no because California does not recognize adultery as a reason for divorce. All divorces are listed as irreconcilable differences. Besides I wasn't a multi-millionaire with prenuptals and the like. They wanted their freedom and I gladly obliged, no one wants to be with someone who can't be faithful, or at least I don't. What's the purpose of being married if you are gonna mess around? So I am having this discussion with you in hopes that you never feel the pain of a divorce and marriage complicates things, when you get strangers involved in splitting up lives and separating possessions it can get very clinical and unfeeling. They do it everyday day in and day out. "

cynic wrote on Nov 20, 2008 9:12 AM:

" Well put Angie and Alihandero - how do you explain this act other than what it truly is - a sin. And even if you don't believe in sin - and want God to shut his mouth - how do you explain it as a loving or healty act? Men and women exist (were created) to procreate - even without religion, this lifestyle makes no logical sense. It is just about feeding our carnal desires. It is NOT natural and should not be compared to true family lifestyle. Of course saying something like this makes you sound like a hater and a bigot - thanks to ever increasing exposure in the media. It is what it is - but it is not acceptable no matter how many funny gay characters start appearing in our sitcoms. But let's turn it into a civil right issue and reject the will of California voters - again! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 20, 2008 10:48 AM:

" To: crystal wrote on Nov 19, 2008 11:34 PM

As far as the armed forces...I served my time.There was the so called don't ask don't tell policy which was a fluke cause they sure did ask me,I didn't even answer and they still discharged me for it.

I notice you left out some very important information here. In the military the JAG doesn't just walk up to you wave a wand and say you are discharged. Usually there is a behavior involved that makes this happen? Even though you didn't respond verbally, perhaps you responded with your behavior and that is all the military needs to boot your butt to the curb. But having served four years myself, the only discharges and they were all listed as (bad conduct discharges), that I saw where gays were discharged followed that pattern.

So your little pearls of wisdom don't fly with me, behavior is the best judge in us all. So peddle your untruths somewhere else Crystal. I read you as being picked on all your life? Never the perpetrator. You left out an important part UCMJ. "

jeff wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:01 AM:

" Angie,

It is only a sin if you consider it to be a sin. From where I stand I have never sinned in my life and never will. In fact not one person in the history of the world has ever committed a sin because I don’t believe in your God. Your Bible means nothing to me except that it’s a poorly written book that people try and insert into my life.
You’re right the Bible is a “Standard for living” and an appalling one at that.
“To most people the message of Jesus Christ is repulsive yet they've never given it a chance.”
This is a very ignorant statement. I hate it when Christians try and paint themselves as victims in this country. You are the majority and you are the ones oppressing the rest of us. Believe in your fallacy all you want to I do not care but keep it out of my life. "

jeff wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:02 AM:

" Fred,

Why is it you are incapable of sticking to the topic at hand? You must have the worst case of ADHD in the history of ADHD. It is not hard to see why two women decided they could do better than you. You talk about how marriage would be ruined if gay marriage is allowed yet here you are a straight man who ruined two marriages himself. If you are trying to save Cammy from a divorce because it’s just so horrible why did you get married three times? Seems to me you enjoy getting divorced.

Cynic,

It is natural, it has occurred since the beginning of time, even animals do it. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:08 AM:

" To: crystal wrote on Nov 19, 2008 11:34 PM

The UCMJ provides for and offers a defense attorney just like a civilian court does at no charge to you. They are referred to as lawyers, just like in civilian life. See if any of the Sections and articles below sound famiiiar to you:

886.3,882.82,898.8,925.125 Any or all of these violations of the UCMJ could apply to your case and there are many more I haven't listed.

All you had to do was to request a Courts Martial to hear your case and if it were not a solid case against you, they could not have discharged you Crystal. So someone who doesn't know how it works might buy your story, but I personally do not and many who served and know the UCMJ will not believe it either.

It doesn't effect you!Mind your own bussiness.Live your life and let me live mine.Your finding a greater population of homosexuals everyday because we are no longer hiding in the dark. "

I would venture to say this has been your attitude both then and now. Don't ask Don't Tell "was violated." "

againtsthegrain wrote on Nov 20, 2008 7:28 PM:

" Mr. Flores,
Not only are you uneducated and unethical in your views pertaining to LGBT Civil Rights and your opinion/thinking about AIDS is God's way for getting even with homosexuals is totally absurd! Where did you come up with that idea? A Cracker Jack box? You need to come out of your little shell and SEE that AIDS is now a PANDEMIC, a world tragedy and it DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE!! Shame on you, Mr. Flores and may God have mercy on your soul! "

Melissa wrote on Nov 20, 2008 10:32 PM:

" Watchdog Fred, again you speak and put your foot in your mouth, have you ever sat in on a homosexual investigation in the military? Homosexuals are not welcome in the military period. Crystal was a great Marine, she graduated boot camp Meritorious PFC graduated MOS school as a Meritorious LCPL. She was her platoon leader. She joined at 17 with her parents permission, she wanted to serve her country. How dare you imply her character is lacking. She was there on 9-11. She was pulling people from the pentagaon while most of us sat on our couches and watched the tv. Shame on you, judging her when you do not know her. Crystal knows how to take responsiblity for her actions, and she never said JAG walked up and said she is discharged Fred, you forget all they have to do is have a hunch and charge a full fledge investigation, you are leaving out important info here Fred, this is not civilian law, they can put an investigation on you for suspicion. That is what happend to Crystal, they launched an investigation because they BELIEVED her to be gay. She had to prove she was not "

cynic wrote on Nov 20, 2008 10:34 PM:

" Animals do lots of things - my dog used to eat what the cat left in the yard - doesn't mean we should do it. Men'a and women's bodies are made to be together - their being together also serves a purpose. That's natural, planned christians believe. "

Melissa wrote on Nov 20, 2008 10:39 PM:

" Watchdog Fred cont...unfortunately that investigation led to people who knew Crystal telling she was gay because they did not want to loose their own careers. You see Fred homosexuals have a very hard time in civilian life, but even harder in the military. They believed her to be gay and wanted her out. That happens to alot of our gay military. Do you not watch the news? The dont ask dont tell policy is under fire right now, it does not work Fred, they do ask and even if you deny, they will not stop until they prove it. What branch did you serve in Fred? I do not believe I have ever read that information. Do you know what it is like to belong to the toughest, roughest, strictest branch of the military? Do you know what Marines expect? Marines have a hard time allowing women in, they do not think they belong and to find a homosexual woman, well that made their day. Crystal not only made it as a Marine, she excelled at it. She is the few, the proud, she is a former Marine. Discharged only because she is attracted to other women. "

crystal wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:38 PM:

" Watchdog Fred

Just so you know...I never played the victum.I have always picked the hardest of carrers and excelled in them.Maybe the USMC just wasn't ready for not only a woman but a lesbian to come in and run circles around all their men.

I had an attorney provided by the USMC that did little to nothing to support me.He didn't defend me in anyway and since they are provided and I cannot chose who I want unless I wanted a civilian that I paid for out of pocket I had no choice.Plus,a civilian would be of no help since they know little to none of military policies.Nothing my actions did on or off base supported their case against me.They simply could not prove of my sexual oriantation.I even went as far to get married to a male to put a block in their investigation.That didn't work either.They went as far as charging myself and the male I married with falsifying a marriage and proceeded to charge him to.Don't sit her and try to tell me what I could or could not do for my case because you were not there and know nothing of my situation. "

crystal wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:45 PM:

" Watchdog Fred Cont...

I'm glad to hear that you served your time in the armed forces as well...Good for you..May I ask what branch you were in?Cause if you were not in the USMC as I was then you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to how hard I had it trying to save my career from a bunch of power hungry sexest men who not only didn't want me there because I was a woman but because I was gay.I was an extrordinary Marine.I was meritoriously promomted 2 times in a row as well as going up for meritorious promotion a 3rd time when I got a call to see my commander.I reported in and was sat down to be informed that there was a full out investigation on me for homosexuality and that their case was almost complete and that my promotion was being put on hold.Then he proceeded to ask me flat out if I was a homosexual.I replied that my sexual orientation was nobodies bussiness either way and was immediately dismissed. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:50 PM:

" To: jeff wrote on Nov 20, 2008 1:02 PM:

Congratulations, you have done what no other person who knew my two ex-wives and I could ever do. You turned their infidelity on me around and made it my fault. I can't believe how intuitive you are Jeff, I just planned for them to have affairs on me so I could just run right out and get married all over again. Gee what a master plan and I didn't even realize I was capable of such cunning and intuitive planning to get my own way.
I married the third time for all the right reasons and that is why it will be the last time. What we have is what the other two should have had.
Let me know if you ever have anyone cheat on you and just how great it made you feel, now will you please? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:53 PM:

" To: jeff wrote on Nov 20, 2008 1:02 PM:

As for not staying on topic. I don't know Jeff suppose it could be just one of those God given talents I have, that evidently you don't possess. "

Dandre wrote on Nov 21, 2008 6:30 AM:

" and fred a 'military lawyer' is called a JAG Officer "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:10 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:30 AM:

" and fred a 'military lawyer' is called a JAG Officer "

No the only one entitled to that title is the man himself the Judge Advocate General all others are simply "lawyers under his command". But all members who defend and prosecute cases do have to be board certified attorney's. But in all honesty I was trying to keep it simple for civilians who may not have watched the tv series like you did. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:16 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:30 AM:

All of what I printed and that is all you could find wrong dandy dre'.

My favorite was Article 134 of the UCMJ, it was about indetedness of a military member, look it up, it will amaze you at what the punishment can be. But many Jag Corps Attorney's used it as a catch all to cover everything that wasn't specifically covered elsewhere. "

jeff wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:04 PM:

" Fred,

You claim that marriage is a “Sacred Institution”. When you made your wedding vows did you not say “Til death do us part”? Aren’t you only fighting against gay marriage because you feel you are protecting the sanctity of “Marriage” by doing so? If you think marriage is so special why is it you married twice for the wrong reasons? Is it because marriage is not all that special for you to begin with? That you don’t really take it all that serious? That you know if times get rough you can simply back out? Your arguments lack logic.

When did ranting incoherently with no direction or guidance become a “God” given talent? Seems to me “God” played a joke on you Fred. "

jacks_mom wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:14 PM:

" Watchdog Fred: YOU -GO- BOY!!!!! .... don't you just love it, now PLEASE do SHARE your secret weapon on how to get poeple to cheat on you... R O T F L...you sound like a wonderful fun person to be around! it amazes me how WE are the ones that use scripture to BASH people... it's also amazing how much a few of the people on here know about each other's lives and careers ...well we knew there had to be a connection, and as for getting married just to throw the millitary off ? well that just goes to show how important marriage really is to that person."IF" marriage is so important to Crystal why use it in such a cheap manner and they should of been prosecuted for the fraud they committed and if Crystal is not ashamed of her "GAY'NESS" why not just state so no matter what the cost (climbing back up on my soap box or bible) because no matter what the cost I would NEVER deny my true identity of CHRISTIANITY ~ so YOU GO WATCH DOG FRED! "

Melissa wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:08 PM:

" jacks_mom good for you that you figured out that Crystal is my girlfriend. But guess what most of the people on here already knew that guess you just caught up. What is your point? Do you think that is some kind of AH HA moment? Crystal did not use marriage in a cheap manner, she used it to hold on to a career, which alot of people do. You know what a marriage of convience is right, you have heard of those havent you? They exsist and I even knew of one that lasted for 25 years. Why did she use this marriage of convience? To keep a career that is most honorable, one that allowed you the protection to sit at your computer and spew your judgments of her. Did she choose to hide being gay? Yes not because she was ashamed but because she would loose her career for it. You would not deny being a chrisitan? Do you even know what it is like to live in a society where there is a group of people who would kill, rape, or beat, you simply because you loved a man? You can not even answer that.. "

Melissa wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:02 PM:

" jacks_mom and why can you not answer that, because as a Christian you have never faced discrimination like that. I know as I have said earlier, the Christian faith was a big part of my life for the first many years of my life. I can say I know the difference, as I have lived both sides. I denied being gay because of the way my family responded to homosexuality and used their faith as bias for those beliefs, Do you know what it is like to commit your life to your country, to defend and serve those of this nation? Do you know what it is like to commit your life to people who show their gratitude the way you just did? Do you know what it is like to then be told by those people who sat on their couches and let you protect them tell you that you are second rate, and your devotion means nothing and have your career ended because of who you are attracted to? You can judge our lifestyle, you can stand on your religious beliefs, why? Because of Crystal and the millions like her. "

Melissa wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:09 PM:

" jacks_mom cont..Where were you on 9-11? Crystal and many of us deny our orientation because of our families, because of hate crimes, because we can loose our jobs, friends and many other reasons to long to list here, those are not problems for you. Do you think you are better than Crystal because you have the freedom to be who you want without the worry of any of the above listed reasons?

Watchdog Fred, you should be ashamed of yourself for even talking down to someone who served their country as well. Crystal took the same oaths you did, she defended this country same as you the only difference between you and her is she is homosexual and you are heterosexual. She is a great person ask anyone who knows her. Since you do not, your judgments are not warranted about her military career, you were not there, you did not sit in on her investigation therefore you do not have any idea what happened. Not everything works out by the book and discharge of a homosexual is one of those things. "

Melissa wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:15 PM:

" Watchdog Fred, by the way you never answered my quesiton, what branch did you serve in? What did you do in the military? Crystal was in Motor T the closest to the front lines they would allow a woman. What did you do? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 22, 2008 4:34 AM:

" To: Melissa, no you are wrong I have an Honorable Discharge, there is a difference in our service. You are absolutely wrong all things play out through the legal channel exactly as I said they do. If you had been in the military you would know that, but you weren't, so you know a lot less than I do. I was defending the military legal process as I know it, I wasn't picking on Crystal, she brought up the subject, I didn't.

Watchdog Fred, you should be ashamed of yourself for even talking down to someone who served their country as well. Crystal took the same oaths you did, she defended this country same as you the only difference between you and her is she is homosexual and you are heterosexual. She is a great person ask anyone who knows her. Since you do not, your judgments are not warranted about her military career, you were not there, you did not sit in on her investigation therefore you do not have any idea what happened. Not everything works out by the book and discharge of a homosexual is one of those things. " "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 22, 2008 4:45 AM:

" To: Melissa,
I served in the United States Navy aboard an aircraft carrier like the sailors at Lemoore NAS do today. I was decorated with several ribbons and medals as many were who served in Vietnam during that time frame.

We launched and retrieved aircraft 24/7 and operated in support of the ground troops providing often times the difference between surviving through the night or through an attack and not surviving. We also bombed key targets including the Ho Chi Min Trail where all supplies were brought into the VC Viet Cong. I also had various other duty stations and responsibilities while in the service. I had a clearance and I will not publicly discuss what clearance but it was required in the performance of my duties. During General Quarters I was assigned to the Command Information Center aboard ship. We received the Meritourious Unit Citation from the Secretary of the Navy for our services in Vietnam. We earned the ribbon plus three campaign bronze clusters for service in Vietnam. We earned the green and white Vietnam Service Medal. We operated in the Tonkin Gulf. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 22, 2008 4:57 AM:

" To: Melissa,

We served a total of nine months on station unlike the six months required today. We would work 30 - 45 day line periods in the middle of the ocean and then pull into port for three or four days and back again. We had unreps (underway replenishments) at sea to get our supplies to keep us from having to leave the war zone any longer than we had to leave it. If you'd care to to go uss bhr.org you will see the ship I was on a few clips from the cruise I was on which was the last one the ship made to Westpac of five it made. I also stayed with the ship and was part of the decomissioning crew in Bremerton, Washington. My total time served on board was two years. Anything else you'd like to know? We were often chased by and followed by Russian Bombers and launched our aircraft to protect our ship in repsponse to their fly overs.
We lost aircraft & crew during the deployment. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 22, 2008 5:04 AM:

" To: Melissa wrote on Nov 22, 2008 12:15 AM:

You have to remember the government can be taken to court just like any individual. If Crystal feels she has a case let her take it to an attorney and fight it. All I did was state the facts and how things are handled in the military.
They don't just walk up and discharge someone, you sign a contract and they honor the contract that is how it works. There is no "at will" employment in the military. The military cannot get rid of you witout just cause and a hearing or trial. In the Navy that would be Captain's Mast or Courts Martial, normally Captain's Mast has to refer someone for Courts Martial to discharge them. That's where the Jag Attorney's come in, all military branches has a Jag Corps or convening authority to handle discipline.

I commend Crystal for joining the military but if she joined as a lesbian she was warned she could be discharged if that information was revealed. They don't do bed checks looking for it.

. "

Dandre wrote on Nov 22, 2008 6:04 AM:

" No Fred That’s not all I had to say but let’s see if I can clean it up enough to answer someone that called me ‘satan’!
To Cammy…have you noticed, your personal experience means nothing if it doesn't fill the circular logic of WDF
But how many ‘til death do you part’ VOWS should one person get to break, NOWHERE in taking that VOW was any mention of adultery or anything else voiding that VOW, if you didn’t have the character to make it work, that’s on you. To stand before a Justice of the Peace is one thing but to stand before God and pledge ‘til death do you part’ 3 times with three different people who haven’t ‘deathed’ yet. You must think God, what, didn’t recognize you? All the energy you spend talking down to people, Fred, is energy not put into making sure you don’t blow this one too. YOUR RECORD IS A REFLECTION ON YOUR CHARACTER! There are 2 sides to every story and I’d be curious to hear their side of it.
Some people can’t figure out who they are supposed to marry but think the know what’s best for everyone else….amazing! "

Dandre wrote on Nov 22, 2008 6:09 AM:

" Hey jacksmom…this issue is about the secular rule of LAW and CIVIL RIGHTS. This letter and your Biblical distortions are a shining example of why the seperation of church and state is so important.
You and all the holier than thou, wikopedia '7 deadly sins' or '7 cardinal sins' and find what is says about 'homosexuality' and then sin #7 and read what it says about 'pride'.
and then go look in the mirror. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 22, 2008 3:52 PM:

" Melissa wrote on Nov 22, 2008 12:15 AM
I chronicled my career for you in the military perhaps you'd care to share yours with us since you think you have a right to call me out on mine on behalf of Crystal.

In all fairness due to restricted information, I did not reveal everything I did while in the military as some of it still falls under a specific classification that wouldn't allow it. So I guess you will have to settle for what I gave you. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 22, 2008 6:33 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:04 AM:

dandy dre' once again the venom does speak from one who participated in drugs and sex with a rock and roll band and wants the right, no I say the duty to cast aspertions upon me? Pardon me but the ladies I had sex with, I loved and married and made honest women of, can you make that same statement in all cases? I have on countless occassions asked you point blank do you believe an adulterous person should be allowed to conduct theirselves in that manner and remain married? You have failed to respond one way or the other, so I must assume you feel adulterous relationship after adulterous relationship is fine as long as you don't leave your spouse. That is the only conclusion you have left me with. You are Catholic your religion specifically states you shouldn't divorce. Mine does not state the same thing and finally divorce is a legal method of ending marriage in even the liberal state of California. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:54 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:04 AM:

dandy dre' I am glad to hear you admit that there are always two sides to every situation. I was convinced you wore blinders and only saw your three sided triangle of vision in most instances always boomeranging back to your way or no way.

Secondly, I am still on good terms with my ex-wives and speak to them often. How many divorced men can make that statement? I raised my child and fullfilled all other responsibilities as his dad, that didn't interrupt a single thing and in fact he and I had much more quality time because of the divorce. On the second marriage there were no children involved so that wasn't even an issue. Niether of us got an attorney we amicably filled out the paper work and filed the necessary documents ourselves. I know it may be hard for you to accept it, but sometimes people realize they have different goals and allow the other person to move on toward those differences. We didn't force ourselves or a child to endure the fighting, arguing and domestic violence. Continued "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:06 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:04 AM:

Continued that many families today put kids through. That is inane nonsense to put children through hell in the name of saving a marriage. By the father or the mother.
Furthermore, these two events in my life have been dealt with in a satisfactory manner before the laws and courts of California and they are behind me. You are wrong God was watching me each time I was married and he was watching my wives too, so I guess the final judgement will be his, certainly not your low life rock and rollin guilty self. Is it true you guys just pass women around like a warn out shirt? You tell me I'm in trouble with the Lord, you best go look in the mirror and your past their lucifer. Anyone who knows anything about rock and roll in your era and the penicilin clinics on Mondays after playing music on Saturday Night. How many fatherless children might you have left in your tracks? "

O. G. wrote on Nov 23, 2008 11:50 AM:

" We Need God In America Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3gh-vgZ4mM&feature=related "

can U believe it wrote on Nov 23, 2008 1:57 PM:

" I have been watching this and several of the sentinels blogs for a while. on the topic of 'gays' let me state up front I am a christian and on the flip side of that I have a daughter that 'claims' to be gay! now before all the supporters get excited let me explain what I mean by 'claims'. she has had a few relationships with the opposite sex. the usual teen boy friend thing and two more serious adult relationships. and out of one of those she was blessed with a beautiful child (and of corse she is the cutest baby ever) LOL.. proud Grandparent here :-) now here it comes when the father of this child got into some bad stuff my daughter broke it off with him to prepare herself to be a better parent. I can not tell you how many nights I sat with her while she cried her eyes out over her heart breaking because of him! and about the time the baby turned a year old my daughter "decided" she was gay. the child is now older and her mother continues to live in a gay relationship. "

can U believe it wrote on Nov 23, 2008 2:09 PM:

" so I have seen her heart break over a man, yet she is 'now' gay ? do I still love her ...you bet! do I except her life style no way. she also was in church as a young child and knows the word of God , just like another young lady on here so she has herd the word and yes she believes in God. now back to the child the child is now old enough to 'ask' questions, and I tell her just as the Bible says. my daughter does not have a problem with this she knows where I stand very fim on his word. my point to all this is can you emagine the world this child is trying to figure out. she approched me last week after watching a T.V program & asked if she was Baptized to this I said no then she asked if her mom was to this I said yes, it really breaks my heart when innocent children have to suffer because of adults actions. and trust me they do suffer . "

Dandre wrote on Nov 23, 2008 8:05 PM:

" You can 'spin' your head off Fred!
Look up the Definition of the word VOW.
And by the way,fred, your obviously weak character would have rendered you an 'addict' of some kind if you were around any thing 'heavier' than selling milk! Anybody that gets involved with something for the wrong reasons is asking for problems, sort of like during the Viet Nam war, when guys would join the navy to avoid seeing ‘combat’, you might double check with Alejandro, I think they were called ‘squids’…
But, anyway, people who got involved with music to ‘party’ usually didn’t survive a year…I lasted 40 years
Your addmission that you've done some things for 'the wrong reasons' is the familiar anthem of the losers that would be in the clubs while their wives sat at home starved for the ‘love’ they were ‘promised’.
You LET your wives stray, Fred, it was YOUR responsibility to keep them HAPPY and YOU failed…..PERIOD! YOUR word can’t be trusted and that’s got nothing to do with religion.
I have kept EVERY vow I have EVER taken and my one marriage has been worth every effort and all the love!
I’ve got references…. "

Melissa wrote on Nov 24, 2008 12:59 AM:

" Watchdog Fred, My military career? Mine was stopped short out of high school, I was in the ROTC program at Lemoore High. I wanted to join the military, I wanted to commit my life to serving my country. But guess what, The Navy would not take me because I had flat feet and asthma, I tried the Army as well, and that too was a no go. As for military, lets see both my brother and my girlfriend were in the Marine Corps, my brother in law is currently serving in the Navy, one of my best friends is a Navy wife, my grandfather was a memeber of the National Guard, my high school best friends father was a Master Chief in the Navy. I have had several family members in all of the wars starting with WWI. As you can see, while my career was stopped short, I am not a stranger to military life. I know pretty much how things work. Also since you have not endured nor been a part of a homosexual investigation, you have no idea what you are talking about. To the military a rumor is enough to start investigations. "

Melissa wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:14 AM:

" can u believe it, First I must say I respect that you can come on here, tell the world your daughter is gay, and that you love her and that you are a Christian all in the same blog. As for your daughter "claiming" she is gay. You know my parents went thru that as well, they called it a phase and that was the only way they could deal with it, is that how you deal day to day with your daughters homosexuality? She respects your decision to be religious correct? Does she tell everyone you are "claiming" to be religious, so she can deal with the day to day that her mother does not actually accept her for all of who she is? Her daughter asking you if she is baptized, how is that hurting that child? I have some first hand experience with children of homosexual relationships, there is no harm done to them by the parents relationship, it is the influences outside of the family that hurt children of homosexual relationships. You know your daughter is gay, yet you teach her daughter that her lifestyle is wrong. who is actually hurting that child? "

Melissa wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:26 AM:

" can u believe it cont.. I understand how you feel about religion, I am sure you have read my blogs since you made a reference to them, however I will not allow my family to teach my children any intolerant teachings about any lifestyle, race, age anything. The only harm being done to children is at the hands of those who believe we are wrong, those who can not accept that just because they believe in religion does not make it true. I know that you love your daughter and your granddaughter is shows, why not show your daughter the acceptance she shows you, do not allow your granddaughter to be told anything about her mother, that is her mother and regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of her life that mother and child bond deserves more respect than that. Your daughter sounds very accepting of your relgious beliefs, as am I about my families, however we have come to the agreement to disagree and religion is not talked about, I have my beliefs and they have theirs. Ask your daughter about hers, they may be different than yours but no less important to her. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:09 AM:

" Fred, You wrote in response to Dandre:

"You are Catholic your religion specifically states you shouldn't divorce. Mine does not state the same thing and finally divorce is a legal method of ending marriage in even the liberal state of California."

Are you telling us that religion has no place in the divorce debate because it is a personal matter? If it has no place in the debate regarding divorce, then why should it have any role in the debate regarding same-sex marriages?

Thank you for finally admitting that using religion to argue a point such as who can marry whom and who can divorce whom is pointless. Since you have more or less admitted that religious reasons cannot be used to defend the passage of Prop. 8, then are you telling us that the arguments against same-sex marriages have been based in ignorance, hatred and bigotry? Because without religion, that is all you have left to argue with. "

liberalguy wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:58 AM:

" Since all the pro prop 8 people seem to think that it had to pass in order to protect the sanctitiy of marriage, The next election in 2010 A group of us are going to try and get a constitutional ammendment banning divorce. That way the perfect family unit will have to stay intact and you will never have to explain to your kids why mommy or daddy as someone new staying in their house with them. And a second part to that, kind of goes along with Mr. Flores question about how would you explain to your children about 2 men kissing etc... lets just go back to the 1600 and if you are caught cheating or having sex out of wedlock you must where a scarlett letter, and maybe even be tarred and feathered for your sins against god. Mr. Flores I would explain to men kissing just like I would explain a man and a woman kissing, they have a special love for one another and that is how they show it. Just like mommy and daddy kiss, those two daddy's kiss. Its not that hard, and kids are smarter than you think. "

liberalguy wrote on Nov 24, 2008 3:12 AM:

" Can we please, please stop with this is against god's word or the bible says so so it must be right. The bible also condoned slavery, is that still acceptable?? The bible condoned incest, remember Lot and his daughters?? am quoting from the Bible, Genesis, Chapter 19, Verses 30-38.

30. And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31. And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. "

liberalguy wrote on Nov 24, 2008 3:16 AM:

" cont... 35. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

37. And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

38. And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Ben-ammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

So lets please not pick and choose what parts of the bible we like and dont like lets not forget the raping and destryoying of nations and the wars which were waged in the name of different gods. If you are going to live by the word of the bible then live it all out, enslave people, stone the town whores in the town square. Oh thats right you cant do that, because we arent governed by gods law, we are governed by the law of man. "

can U believe it wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:06 AM:

" Melissa : the issue of 'claiming' to be gay is based on her very expressed love of the childs father. as I had mentioned in my first comment she was heart broken when she had to make the decision to break off the relationship because he started messing up and she wanted more than that for her child. as for my teaching of the child my daughter and I spoke of this situation before hand and she agreed that I could only express my thoughts and believes. she knows I will not lie about what I believe and she respects that. as I said I love all my children very much and raising my children as a single parent we all are very close. she and I sat down at one point and I directly asked her when this started in her life, she responded since she was a young teen. to that I asked what about (fathers name) because I know how much she loved him 'remember' I am the one that sat up with her at night while she cried herself to sleep trying to get through the break up. all she could respond with was "

can U believe it wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:17 AM:

" I dont know. then I asked her directly did you love (fathers name) and to this she replied yes! so thats why I say she 'claims' to be gay. how can you be gay and love a person of the opposite sex that much. as far as getting on here and stating to be a christian and stating i love my daughter as i said i can only speak the truth. as christians we are to love every one no matter what. one more point i would like to make is (for me) and i am in hopes the rest of the christians on here and every where, when saying to gay people (or) any one that is not living by Gods word is that I am not passing Judgment. it is done so in love not hate. because as christians we are suppose to help a brother or sister when we see them doing what is against Gods word.
thank you for responding to my last post, God Bless! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:43 AM:

" To: Scott Tucker wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:09 AM:

Did you hit your head while visiting your childhood at the Fort? What I said; and meant to demonstrate is that according to the California laws and at present, I dealt with divorces in a legal and morally excepted manner. Did you get the part about legal.
You make this gigantic leap to same sex marriage which under current law and previous law was not allowed. How can you compare a legal method vs an illegal method and come up with your falsehood of how religion plays no part.
I also stated that before God I was married and before God there was behavior exhibited and the Judgement of me and my wives will be before God, not the wanna be theologist dandy dre', or the absentee ballot Scott Tucker. You both take liberties and twist words like no one reading the blogs will be able to ascertain your actions. However, quite the contrary you are seen for exactly what you are.
I also made the statement that when I divorced my son's mother I didn't divorce him, I raised him. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:52 AM:

" To: Scott Tucker wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:09 AM:

I do however, think you all are grabbing at any straws you can to try and convince the rest of us, that behavior should be legislated to allow a man to lay with a man and a woman lay with a woman, which according to God's word is forbidden.
Also does the Pope not state that divorce shall not be recognized by the Catholic Church in Rome? However, I even know Catholics that have divorced who went against that decision. I would hate to hear what dandy dre' might say about them.
I've even pasted and posted from Gay magazine quotes the real foundation behind the machine trying to legalize same sex marriage and none of you even chose to comment on the possibility that there were alternative motives by some.
Seeing Gavin Newsome, who really sidetracked the entire legal issue to gain fame and prominence and Gloria Alread on Dr. Phil convinced me there is legal popularity and Political gain involved with their coummitment to the issue.
Newsome wants to be Govenor and Alread wants any and all publicity she can possibly get. "

Dandre wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:14 AM:

" Fred the 'Vow Breaker', you must be dizzy after all that 'spinning'!
Liberalguy...you are right on! "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:47 AM:

" to liberalguy,
Using your own request against you. "Oh thats right you cant do that, because we arent governed by gods law, we are governed by the law of man"
They why are you crying so loud when the law of man voted yes on Prop 8. Be the man that you claim to be and accept that the majority of voters in California voted for same sex marriage. If you don't want God's laws and you don't want to accept man's law then you have anarchy.
Why do all of you hate those people that voted Yes on Prop 8 so much? Aren't they granted the same rights as you, to cast their vote? It sure doesn't seem like it. You all jump on them, yet they only did their civic duty and voted the way that fhey felt to be the right way. So now it is a "man's law". Live by it! "

whitey wrote on Nov 24, 2008 12:11 PM:

" i just dont understand how the majority of people feel the need to deny someone elses happiness. People say its against the bible. then there is the whole separation of church and state. That is a crock. The whole constitution was based on out forefathers beliefs, who most were all christians. So the very first time Marriage came up, it is supposed to be based on a law that was made soooo many years ago, when people thought you worshiped the devil, if you werent in church on sunday. How can they say, that to this day, it has nothing to do with god? they can sugar coat it all they want, but christians, are not supposed to judge. EVER. And all the people that were against Prop 8, the day will come when your happiness is denied. And shame on Joe Flores. and all the people who have hatred in their hearts. "

joseantonio wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:16 PM:

" Gotta love all these people who know what God thinks. I need to talk to him also. What's his cell phone number again?

Anyone who actually talked to God one-on-one, raise your hand.

.......no arms were raised. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:26 PM:

" To: NotHomeGrown wrote on Nov 24, 2008 12:47 PM:

You have to remember you are dealing with people who had sex with groupies like it was kids eating candy for the first time. They didn't give a hoot if those women were married single or in between, they were after self gratification. That is the terms they think in, not laws, not anything thst isn't put into place to specifically protect their rights to be imoral and decadant. That is the mind set you are working with NHG. They don't realize, that by disowning God they give up so much more and by that I refer you to the phrase: "My God Given Rights". Which none of them understand to be more sacred and more binding than any of man's laws. With that computer chip missing from their memory bank there is no reasoning with them. Somewhere between the ears there has taken place a short circuit to what morals are and what examples to children mean and doing things for the good of the community rather than the good of one's self. Know not want not! "

jacks_mom wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:09 PM:

" can anyone on here that is 'Athiest' explain to me what the difference is between them (athiest) suing to remove God from all public buildings I.E~ Schools, Court rooms, Public Parks, currency, etc different than Christians standing up for our beliefe going against homosexuality ? is there a difference...anyone ! "

Nevada wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:20 PM:

" joseantonio- I talk to God one-on-one everyday. That's the whole point behind prayer and personal revelation. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:59 PM:

" To: joseantonio wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:16 PM:

He has several numbers all in his book and all you must do is open the book begin to read and then open you heart unto him and you will be amazed how much better off your life becomes.

I suggest you start with Genisis if you were dandy dre' I'd send you straight to Revelations. Since he is hooked on the word reviler. "

MelMAOB wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:52 PM:

" Fred, I agree with you. Finally.

Yes the armed services find reasons to discharge it's members...Great service men and women are not discharged, the ones discharged are the ones who cannot meet the standards. I would discharge those involved in under age drinking and drug abuse.
I am far from a supporter of the armed forces, I don't support those who force humans to not be who they are. I don't understand why gays and lesbians would choose to live that life of heartache, but understand that choices have to be made. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 25, 2008 12:07 AM:

" In all fairness to his sister's reported letter here is what Newt Gingrich had to say about the demonstrators:

"Look, I think there is a gay and secular fascism in this country that wants to impose its will on the rest of us, is prepared to use violence, to use harassment. I think it is prepared to use the government if it can get control of it. I think that it is a very dangerous threat to anybody who believes in traditional religion. And I think if you believe in historic Christianity, you have to confront the fact. And, frank — for that matter, if you believe in the historic version of Islam or the historic version of Judaism, you have to confront the reality that these secular extremists are determined to impose on you acceptance of a series of values that are antithetical, they're the opposite, of what you're taught in Sunday school."

I think Newt may toss his hat into the ring by 2012! "

jeff wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:16 AM:

" Jacks_mom,

Great question and to be honest I can’t understand how anyone can’t understand this. You are talking about Public buildings. We have separation of Church and State in this country. The government is not allowed to endorse a specific religion. No matter how much people want to believe this we are not a Christian nation. I am an Atheist and I do not want to take religion away from anyone. If gay marriage becomes legal again I would be just as upset if gay people started petitioning the government to force churches to recognize gay marriage.

To your question, think about it this way. What if you weren’t a Christian? What if you were a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Wiccan or Jewish? Wouldn’t it seem somewhat unfair to you that public buildings/federal government recognized one religion and ignored the rest? "

jeff wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:16 AM:

" Jacks_mom,

Let’s say the govt ok’d Christian signage on public buildings. Then different Christian denominations would want to be recognized. Do we allow all of them to have their own sign or just pick one? Mormons are Christians what if the govt went with the Mormons? Would you be just fine with that? Then what about Atheists? I would find this offensive along with every other Christian denomination besides Mormons and every other religion besides Christianity. So what then? Should the govt only allow religion signage when all religions are represented? This would really be the only fair way to do this. I would be fine with public buildings displaying religion as long as all religions were represented and that would include Atheism even though it is not a religion. The fact is religion is not a public matter it is a private one because not everyone believes in the same thing. "

jeff wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:16 AM:

" Jacks_mom,

The main difference applicable to this situation is no one is trying to invade churches and change what they say or what their members believe. You are imposing your belief on people who do not believe in your religious views. No one is taking anything away from you by allowing gay marriage. Churches do not have to recognize them. Medicinal marijuana is legal in California, does your Bible agree with that? You would probably say no, yet somehow this law appears to not take your beliefs away from you but if you think it does why aren’t you vocal about it? There are many manmade laws that do not coincide with the Bible and you seem to live life everyday as a Christian with no problem having these laws in place. "

Scott Tucker wrote on Nov 25, 2008 1:41 PM:

" Nicely argued, Jeff! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 25, 2008 2:14 PM:

" To Jeff, I wonder if your opinions would be any different if it were the Atheist who the LGBTQ community was trying to intimidate into voting their way and chastizing them for their different view of same sex marriage? Do you not believe that some atheist voted along with the religous movement on this issue.
When I once again point out an overwhelming number of black people voted Yes on 8, but I still don't see any movement by the gay community to protest in Watts or Harlem? Perhaps they know what the result would be if they tried to prevent Christian Blacks from attending services and worshiping in their church of choice.
Why must the minority of the gay community pick on a religous minority and don't they realize the entire religous community may come together and reverse the demonstrations and protests back onto the LGBTQ community? I just don't think that projecting a wrong against the Mormons bodes well for their case as a minority. If the LGBTQ's want to be upset with anyone, they should be upset with Gavin Newsome for jumping the gun and changing their legal avenue for relief. "

jeff wrote on Nov 25, 2008 2:50 PM:

" Thank you Scott.

Fred,

Your argument lacks meaning. If I were the type of person to believe that gay marriage was a horribly disgusting thing that would garner someone a first class ticket to hell and the very act of love they were committing was ruining the fabric of society of course I would think differently. Anybody would. If mainstream society was gay straight people would have to fight this battle right now. So what does your point prove?

I’m sure some Atheists did vote in favor of Prop. 8, so what?

Why would anyone protest black people? This is a religious matter - made so by religous zealots - not a racial matter. Plenty of white people voted yes on Prop. 8 but I don’t see gay people protesting against white people. The fact is "Religious" people voted Yes on 8. Where do religous people go? They go to Church. "

jeff wrote on Nov 25, 2008 2:53 PM:

" Fred,

When you take the term minority and apply it to religious people and gay people, religion wins out every time as an overwhelming majority. You told me once that this was a Christian nation, that our country was founded on Christianity, that it is what America believes in. Answer for me this Fred. If America is a Christian nation founded on those principles how can you be a minority? You aren’t even suggesting it’s only Christians who are the minority but all religious believers. Sorry but you can’t have it both ways. Stop pretending to be a victim it makes you look capricious. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 25, 2008 3:06 PM:

" To: Scott Tucker wrote on Nov 19, 2008 4:07 AM:
Scott these are your words
" This imbecilic letter to the editor does not really warrant a response. Nevertheless, here I am feeling the need to respond to such blatant ignorance."

My response to you:
The overseas scholar decides to call the author of this letter an imbecil for in indicating the letter is imbecilic is that not the conclusion. Then further inpunes him by calling his thoughts blatant ignorance.

The Flores name has been known in this dairy community for years. They have contributed greatly to the culture and development of the area.

Yet this 32 year old scholar with foot prints in Hanford claims to somehow hold a superior opinion to this man.

The History Teacher tells everyone who will listen, how he never attacks anyone, he never inpunes someone unless they do it to him first.

I saw no mention of Mr. Tucker in Mr. Flores letter, did you? Yet in the first sentence of the first paragraph of Mr. Tucker's comments are a relentless attack on Mr. Flores.

Reader's decide! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 25, 2008 3:15 PM:

" An added thought to my remarks earlier for those who may not be aware. Mr. Gavin Newsome jumped the gun and began performing same sex marriages at the city hall in San Francisco long before the Justices made it legal. Those marriages were overturned and the marriages determined illegal because of that action by Mr. Gavin Newsome. Further, when the law making it legal was announced by the Justices. Mr Newsome once again rushed to the pulpit and gained attention by performing same sex marriages and making a speech announcing "Like It or Not", making a reference that this now could not be overturned. This only added fuel to the fire for the conservative christian movement to prove to Mr. Gavin Newsome there was something that could be done about it and the campaigns began, one fo yes and one for no and the Yes voters prevailed. Demonstrating to Mr. Gavin Newsome he was wrong, once again. So if you want to be angry this is the man who keeps lighting the fire for political purposes hoping to be the next Govenor. I say he will lose by at least 52%. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 25, 2008 3:27 PM:

" To: Scott Tucker wrote on Nov 25, 2008 3:41 PM:

" Nicely argued, Jeff! "

What is the legal position of gay marriage in Switzerland?

Perhaps this will refresh your memory:

"Registered partners benefit from the same next of kin status, and have equal rights in matters of taxation, inheritance, social security and pensions and shared possession of a home as married partners. Same-sex couples may not, however, adopt children or undergo medically assisted fertility treatment."

This from the History Teacher's new found comfort of the Chickens, Watches, Traitors and Civil Relationships.

Seems the Swiss put more restrictions on LGBTQ's, than the state of California does Scotty.
I'm afraid your liberal crying heart failed the test on this barometer around the world. Perhaps you should work to change how it is in Switzerland and allow same sex couples to raise and have children in their families?

I love it when a bigot tries to put down our country when his country of choice offers even less to the LGBTQ community.

Beware Scotty the demonstrators may be on their way and they aren't coming to buy watches or clocks. "

Melissa wrote on Nov 26, 2008 11:23 PM:

" melMOAB,

LOL discharge all underage drinkers! If that was the case most people in the service, man or woman, under 21 needs to be discharged.. Good service men and women get discharged for a lot of reasons. My brother was discharged simply because the helicopter he worked on was being retired. They did not want to retrain him, he was not discharged because he did not meet the standard, he was an amazing Marine, as well as my girlfriend. they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Others are discharged because they want to be, after serving their terms they no longer want to live a life of service, some are medically discharged. But then again I guess since you are not a supporter of the military, you probly do not know this. Just some information for you. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 27, 2008 7:32 PM:

" jeff wrote on Nov 25, 2008 4:53 PM:

Once again you demonstrate an inability to comprehend the obvious. If I say Christian's I am refering to many relious sects. If I say Mormon I am only referring to a small minority of those combines sects. Now to you understand why it can be both ways.

Secondly, if the LGBTQ's are demonstrating against all religions why are they concentrating on only one small portion of the religous sect?

How simplistic can the argument be for you to misconstrue it, twist it to your version and conceptin and completely ignore mine?

Once again you dodge the hard bullet contained in a simple question or scenario through your ignorance. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 27, 2008 7:36 PM:

" jeff wrote on Nov 25, 2008 4:53 PM:

Why would anyone protest black people? This is a religious matter - made so by religous zealots - not a racial matter.

My point exactly, but many of your compatriots swear their plite and suffering is equal to those of the blacks during the civil rights movement when puresly there is significant diffrerences they fail to acknowledge and realize. You put it out clearly here.

But the reason to demonstrate on the black community is that admitidly they put the Yes Vote in SoCal and the entire state over the top, not the Mormons. But who gets targeted the minority Mormon community. The people who traditionally turn the other cheek when confronted with violence. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 27, 2008 7:43 PM:

" To: Melissa wrote on Nov 27, 2008 1:23 AM:

So are you saying that Crystal received a medical discharge rather than a bad conduct discharge?
If that's the case then the armed forces must be precluding same sex relationships are an illness?
Is this the proposterous statement you are making, that being gay or lesbian after all these years of denial is a medical abormality subject to discharge from the armed forces. Funny that isn't how it is indicated in the UCMJ even today. Same sex relationship in considered bad concduct, considered unbecoming behavior of the individual and reason for discharge. Plain and simple, like I said; they don't do bed checks trying to catch same sex realtionships. It is a don't ask don't tell situation, so somewhere along the line if she wasn't asked she must have told or expressed it to someone or she would still be serving today.
Melissa, you may think you can accompish rewriting civilian law, but I personally guarantee, you are not capable of rewriting military law. One who fights military law is always the loser. You either follow procedure or you lose. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 28, 2008 8:59 AM:

" To: Melissa wrote on Nov 27, 2008 1:23 AM:

My brother was discharged simply because the helicopter he worked on was being retired. They did not want to retrain him, he was not discharged because he did not meet the standard, he was an amazing Marine, as well as my girlfriend. they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time

This is an amazing story about your brother, most maintenance personnel who are good at what they do move on to the next replacement aircraft. They would much rather train somone who has a proven track record than train new personnel. The Marine Corps is part of the navy so I can't imagine they do things much differently. Helicopters may change in the scope of their mission but they still have hydraulics, electronics and engines in them. The military probably has the best schools for training and retraining people so I find it odd they didn't want to retrain your brother, they do it on a daily basis. "

Melissa wrote on Nov 29, 2008 9:02 PM:

" Watchdog Fred, I do not believe anywhere in my statement did I say Crystal was discharged on a medical reason. I was listing reasons why people are discharged, Nice try at twisting my words though, however anyone can read my comment and see you are once again stretching, as for my brother, his contract was up, and the helicopter was being retired, instead of re-signing a contract to be retrained they discharged him. I do not know what to tell you, except that the Marine Corps and the Navy are completely different. They are trained harder, longer and in more detail. Their training is 17 1/2 weeks including MOS school, I can tell you that you did not spend near that time, nor did the Navy spend near the money to train you. That is probably why they hand out retraining at the Navy, however it does not work that way in the Marine Corps. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 30, 2008 7:57 PM:

" To: Melissa wrote on Nov 29, 2008 11:02 PM:

The training I received was far longer than that of your brother, even at sea a sailor is continuing to learn. As for the Marine Corps, I set their watches when assigned to the Weapons Department. The Marine Detachment was under the command control of a Commander and I worked directly for the Commander, two Lt. Commanders and a E-9 Chief Petty Officer. The Marine Detachment ran the brig and assisted the Navy Master At Arms with security and Police Work aboard the ship. There were 76 of them and 4400 sailors aboard the ship. So their presence was somewhat subdued aboard our aircraft carrier. I won't put the Corps down but suffice it to say they work for and answer to the Navy. "Whether they like it or not", The highest ranking Marine was four pay grades below my boss who was in charge of them. Their budget, their mere existence hinges on what the Navy gives them to work with and do. No other service is reliant on another branch except for the Corps. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 30, 2008 8:03 PM:

" To: Melissa wrote on Nov 29, 2008 11:02 PM:

Your statement is very vague but from what I understand he got out do to his enlistment expiring, not because of some training they wouldn't give him. The Marine Corps like the Navy has reenlistment incentives for excellent personnel and often bay a Variable Reenlistment Bonus to retain them. So either he was not in a critical rating or he would have been offered that bonus. So the choice was his to make, not necessarily the Marine Corps. The Corps has a mission just as the navy does, it's just the Navy supplies the budget for all training and to be perfectly honest the navy probably has one of the best systems of training of any of the branches with it's Naval Command School Systems Program, which are readily available as B and C schools even for Petty Officers formal training in their respective fields. I do know in the navy in order to advance you must take practical factors, written test, command recommendation to advance in rate. In the Corps it is command recommendation and an oral exam, no written test. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 30, 2008 8:05 PM:

" To: Melissa wrote on Nov 29, 2008 11:02 PM:

So then what you are saying is Crystal got a Bad Conduct Discharge, which is what I said she got to begin with and you flinched. Which means her discharge for bad conduct entitles her to a Dishonorable Discharge. "

jeff wrote on Dec 1, 2008 1:05 PM:

" Fred,
Why are they “Picking” on the Mormons? I answered that for you already and so did some other people. See if you can keep up next time.

Since you brought up Switzerland I thought it would be interested to look at some other countries. Canada, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, South Africa and Spain have legalized gay marriage. The Netherlands were the first in 2001 and as of yet God has stayed fairly quiet regarding his anger about the gays, in fact one might say God is a complete mute when it comes to countries other than America legalizing gay marriage. It’s almost as if he doesn’t care or maybe he just doesn’t exist?

Religious fanatics are trying to do to gay people what they tried to do to women and black people. Presently some of these religious fanatics are black but most of the financing came from Mormons (Who can also be black). So you see, race has nothing to do with this and Religion has everything to do with it. "

Melissa wrote on Dec 1, 2008 7:49 PM:

" Watchdog Fred, and when your in the middle of the ocean, on that carrier, where were the Marines heading? My friend you can not tell me anything about the Marine Corps, as I have said, my brother and my girlfriend are Former Marines. You gave them a ride, period. My brother was HONORABLY DISCHARGED because his helicopter was being put out of service. His specialty was that particular helicopter, Do not question the character of people you do not know. Yes is term was coming up, however they decided that they did not want to retrain him, for whatever reason, and he was not able to re enlist. Again as I said he was given an HONORABLE DISCHARGE. that discharge definitly does not mean he could not meet the standard now does it Fred? I have never flinched nor discussed with you what discharge Crystal got. Nor have you asked. What she was given is being review for upgrade to HONORABLE. So I guess she was not discharged because she could not meet the standards either. Now I do not put down any branch of the military, as many of my family has belonged to different.. "

Melissa wrote on Dec 1, 2008 7:58 PM:

" Watchdog Fred cont.. branches, however do not tell me that the Navy trains harder because that is just not true. The boot camp is cake walk compared to the Marine boot camp, so much so that if a Marine decideds to join another branch of the military they do not have to go thru boot camp, why? Because no ones, and i mean NO ONES boot camp is comparable to Marine Corps. As for continuing their training on ship, Marines train on ship and land, and by the way my brother was on another ship, not the carrier, and on that ship it was ALL Marines except the doctors, as the Marines do not have medical crew. Crystal was on a carrier, but I know there are more boats out there on a cruise with the carrier. In fact on one of my brothers cruises there were five ships total. You are not speaking to someone who is ignorant of military life and procedures. I know about crusises and who is on them, I have spent many nights talking with both my brother and Crystal about their cruises, looking thru their books, I am aware the Navy is present. "

Melissa wrote on Dec 1, 2008 11:30 PM:

" Watchdog Fred cont...and no she did not recieve a Dishonorable Discharge. She was not discharged on a bad conduct charge. Really Fred you still assume to much. "

citizen_id wrote on Dec 2, 2008 9:01 AM:

" Since knowing Joe Flores is a friend of one of our city council representatives, Mr. Thomas for many years, it would not surprise me that Mr. Flores has penned this letter on behalf of Mr. Thomas. Thomas has Rusty Souza and Flores for this role. Mr. Flores, will you verify this is your letter and not a letter written by Mr. Dave Thomas? I just hope Dave has the courage to"come out" and let the public know his true thoughts. He has no problem is bragging he wrote this letter to anyone that asks. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 2, 2008 9:08 PM:

" To Melissa,
Let's see you talked to two marines, I was stationed aboard ship with fifty marines who am I going to listen to you, or the sea going bellhops I served with, sorry they win, you lose.
I assigned these guys watches and to prove to you, you don't know what you are talking about, those marines on our ship were headed the same place at the same time as we were because they were ship's company. They weren't one step closer to the front lines than any sailor aboard the ship I was on.

All you have to offer is second hand scuttle butt from two marines that never served aboard a carrier or know anything about life aboard one. So you speak from no first hand knowledge of anything. Move a hundred miles away and you can be a professional story teller.

Watchdog Fred, and when your in the middle of the ocean, on that carrier, where were the Marines heading? My friend you can not tell me anything about the Marine Corps, as I have said, my brother and my girlfriend are Former Marines "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 2, 2008 9:11 PM:

" Melissa once again you speak from story tales and sea stories.

NO ONES boot camp is comparable to Marine Corps.

Tell that to a Canadian Marine/Sailor they are one in the same they prepare for the same job.

Or ask a ROK Marine about how tough training can be.

Oh yeah and tell a navy seal how tough marine training is, or an Army Ranger in Special Forces.

You live in a marine soaked illusion child. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 3, 2008 11:55 AM:

" To: Melissa,

Once again if the discharge she received is in the process of being upgraded then the original was less than Honorable, it has to be otherwise no upgrade would be needed. So regardless of the upgrade it was originally not an Honorable Discharge. Plain and simple as the nose on your face. The words pasted below are yours not mine.

"What she was given is being review for upgrade to HONORABLE." "

Melissa wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:35 PM:

" Watchdog Fred, I do not argue that she did not recieve an honorable when she was discharged, but no she did not recieve a dishonorable one either. As for living in a Marine soaked world my friend tell me do you think you could have made thru Marine boot camp? I do stand corrected that there are some special forces that have hard and comparable training, however those are SPECIAL forces, not one of the main five branches in which we have been discussing, not to mention special forces are trained by MARINES. What in the world does a Canadian marine or sailor have to do with the military in America? Sounds to me like you are hung up on being a sailor and like many I knew growing up have the pre concieved notion the Navy owns the Marines. Here is education for you, The Marines are their own branch, they are the smallest branch in the service founded in Tun Tavern, on their own. The only thing Marines need is the medical, they have their own boats, own trucks, own bases. That is why there is FIVE branches of services. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 5, 2008 12:00 PM:

" To: Melissa wrote on Dec 4, 2008 9:35 PM:

Another lesson for you today Melissa there are five branches of service but only four Joint Chiefs do you know who is left out and why?

It is the Coast Guard who is represented by the U.S. Navy and also the actual Chief of Staff. Therefore the necessity for their involvment was determined not necessary. Although they still have input thru the chain of command.

The Marine Corps does not have it's own ships either as I pointed out to you in another blog. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 5, 2008 11:51 PM:

" Melissa FYI
General
General discharges are given to service members whose performance is satisfactory but is marked by a considerable departure in duty performance and conduct expected of military members. Reasons for such a characterization of service vary, but are always preceded by some form of nonjudicial punishment utilized by the unit commander as a means to correct unacceptable behavior prior to initiating discharge action (unless the reason is homosexual conduct or drug abuse, in which case discharge is mandatory). A commander must disclose to the service member in writing why he is initiating discharge action, and will further explain the reason he is recommending service be characterized as General (Under Honorable Conditions). The service member is normally required to sign a statement acknowledging receipt and understanding of the notification of pending discharge memorandum. He is also advised of his right to seek counsel and present statements on his behalf.

An honorable discharge can, on rare occasions, be granted to a former service member (whose service was characterized as less than honorable) as an act of clemency, should that person display exemplary post-service conduct and show evidence of outstanding post-service achievement in areas such as education and employment. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 6, 2008 12:04 AM:

" To Melissa,
I'd suggest you review some information about the Marine Corps before you make any more blanket statements about it's marine corps and the ships they own and operate. The United States Navy and the US Coast Guard are the only two military services currently allowed to own and operate ships.
As for the marines training the other branches of service:
In addition to regular Marine Corps training, a Reconnaissance Marine candidate (Private First Class or Corporal) will be required to attend the following specialty schools:
The Basic Reconnaissance Course - at either Expeditionary Warfare Training Group Pacific or Atlantic.
Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape (SERE) Training - at either NAS North Island, CA, or NAS Brunswick, ME.
Army Airborne School - Ft. Benning, GA.

SERE training is provided by the Navy Seals at NAS North Island, Ca. or NAS Brunswick, ME. both Naval Air Stations operted by Naval Personnel.

Army Airborne School - Fort Benning, GA. operated by the US Army.

If you go to this site it will tell you all you need to know about Special Forces Operations and their individual training.

http://specialoperations.military.com/air-force-special-tactics/training.html "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 6, 2008 12:16 AM:

" To Melissa,

Of course I could have completed Marine Boot Camp, anyone could, I use to watch them run their five miles every morning on the way to the chow hall. I don't know if you realize this but marines didn't just start serving aboard ships in the 20th century, your trained marines were born out of the one's who fought along side such brave Captains as John Paul Jones who once said; "Surrender, I've not yet begun to fight?" and as his ship the original USS Bon Homme Richard sank to the bottom he commandered the British Frigate he was fighing and fought many more battles on her. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 7, 2008 7:19 AM:

" To: Melissa, I hope you don't mind if I remember a few thousand brave sailors & souls today on December 7th, 2008. They were killed while giving a few marines a ride on December 7th, 1941. Oh and they were in the middle of the battle not at sea, they were all moured at peace when they were attacked by an enemy that didn't bother to tell us we were at war until they struck the first blow. 1700 of them parished on one ship alone you may have heard of it the USS Arizona bought and paid for by the government for the US Navy? Just so you know when you are buried in Arlington, they don't much care what branch you served in, but you do have to have served honorably in any branch. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 12, 2008 10:56 AM:

" I guess I answered all of Melissa's questions and proved she didn't know a marine from a sirene. "




Advertisement

HOT TOPICS

> More Hot Topics

MORE LOCAL NEWS

Lemoore:

    Selma:

    Kingsburg:

    PHOTO GALLERIES

    		 "More Photos

    Sentinel Photos (120) Albums

    Hanford High vs. Lemoore High Water Polo
    Hanford High vs. Lemoore High Water Polo
    Friday, November, 6 2009
    (14) Photos
    Tigers vs. Bullpups Volleyball
    Tigers vs. Bullpups Volleyball
    Friday, November, 6 2009
    (22) Photos
    Hanford West vs. Redwood High Football
    Hanford West vs. Redwood High Football
    Friday, November, 6 2009
    (13) Photos

    Reader Submitted (7) Albums

    Vintage Hanford
    Vintage Hanford
    Monday, December, 15 2008
    (1) Photos
    Vacation Photos
    Vacation Photos
    Thursday, November, 20 2008
    (35) Photos
    Events
    Events
    Thursday, November, 20 2008
    (38) Photos

    More


    EMAIL UPDATES

    Sign up today to get all your local headlines delivered to your home or work e-mail address, so you don't miss the latest in breaking and local news.
    E-Mail:
    Daily News Updates
    Breaking News Alerts


     
    Letters to the Editor| Comment about Web site
    RSS HanfordSentinel.com
    Copyright © 2006 Lee Newspapers. All Rights Reserved.
    All Lee Central California Newspapers pages are designed for screen resolutions set at 1024x768 or higher.
    Click here for our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use applicable to this site.