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Letters to the Editor/There's a cure for homophobia

Editor: Throughout the whole Proposition 8 commotion, I have been ignoring the urge to sit down and write a little about what I think. Yet, every paper I've read lately has been slapping me in the face with both positive and negative opinions on the issue and I just can't hold my tongue any longer.

I would like however, to take this time to thank the man whose inspired me to do this, Mr. Joe Flores, a Hanford resident whose opinion was printed in the Letters to the Editor section of The Sentinel on Tuesday.

The letter, titled "Marriage is against God's law," was, to me personally, rather sad. It's unfortunate that prejudice and discrimination aren't considered against God's law. Come to think of it, there are an outrageous number of things that people do that should be considered against God's law, but nobody bothers to complain about that!

We weren't created perfect, we were created human -- 100 percent human -- complete with thoughts and feelings and emotions, and I can guarantee that not one person in each and every gay community was stripped of these things just because they're gay. It doesn't work that way. So, I believe that the opposers of a happy, loving union of two people (in the words of Mr. Flores), "ought to step back and take a good look" at the real problems society is facing today. If not for me, then for the sake of our children.

Now that we're on the subject of children, have you ever wondered just how many same-sex couples, with beautiful, healthy children, are out there? Probably not, because the words "same-sex" and "children" make you cringe. Like it or not though, they're out there, probably in greater numbers than you can imagine. We supporters call them a family, and I'm pretty sure they bleed red just like everybody else, yet are denied the same rights as everybody else.

In Mr. Flores' letter, he asks "How will you explain it to your children when they ask you why those two men are kissing?" Well, Mr. Flores, how will you explain it? With your mouth! "What" you explain to your children is a different question. I can't answer that one, only the parent presented with the question has the answer to that because obviously we don't all share the same opinions on the issue, now do we! You know we all try our hardest to mold and shape our children into the kind of people we think they should be, but once they're grown, they seem to make up their own minds about who they become.

And what do HIV and AIDS have to do with gays and lesbians getting married? Forgive me if I'm wrong but I thought promiscuity was the path to those epidemics as well as many other STDs, not marriage. And no, there still is no cure for HIV or AIDS... or herpes... or cancer. But there is a cure for homophobia. It's called "get over it"!

Veronica Ramirez

Corcoran

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Scott Tucker wrote on Nov 23, 2008 9:35 AM:

" Dear Ms. Ramirez,

Thank you for your letter. "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Nov 23, 2008 9:47 AM:

" I'm only addressing the 3rd paragraph:
In the Bible, there is a book called Job that describes the suffering of a man that by all accounts deserved none of the difficulties he was facing. Its one of the oldest, if not the oldest, book. Interestingly, the response of Job and his friends and acquaintances remind me alot of this letter.
Job's friends are well meaning, alternately comforting and then trying to put the full responsibility for his trouble on him. They all try to tell him about how God is dealing with him justly.
Job laments and all but demands an account from God about why he has let bad things happen to him. He is convinced of his own innocence, is willing to accept what charges may rightfully be laid on him, and nearly-accusing wants an account from God.
God responds in a way that humbles these children that are way to big for their britches - in effect, God tells them, "When you can create all things and put time and space in order, then you can talk about how I should be doing things." It's a valid point; check it out. "

kitty on the keyboard wrote on Nov 24, 2008 3:16 PM:

" Great letter. Thank you! "

jeff wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:58 PM:

" D.A.,

Prove that God exists and more importantly that the Christian God who supposedly ghost wrote the Bible exists and then it would be a valid point. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:42 PM:

" Gee Ms Ramirez now that you have settled that problem, care to provide the answers to the rest of the worlds problems. But I have to tell ya many have tried that can't we just all get along idea to no avail for years now.
The differences between the Yes and No vote on Proposition 8 are as large as the differences between night and day, stem cell research, abortion and many other segments of society that agreement lacks in and has since their introduction into our society. None of which ever seem to have any significant movement without a couple of steps back and no light at the end of the tunnel showing in compromise.
But continue the faith and resolve yourself to the simplicity aspect, and you'll be content you did your best to solve the problem.
This has been voted on twice now and has gone down to defeat in both elections, the LGBTQ community says it just wants fairness. But does not accept fairness when it is thrust upon them in the form of the ballot box, unless they can stuff all the ballots. Continued "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:47 PM:

" Continued Never in the history of this country has it found itself waging war twice over the same issues and circumstances. Always before it is new circumstances that cannot be resolved in any other manner. This problem has been met with battle after battle and two votes to ratify or deny it's acceptance by the voting public in California and both times has failed to receive the amount of support necessary to pass into law. So now a minority of people wish to shove "Whether We Like It Or Not", down our throats and expect us to accept that. We the voters have spoken, we will in no way surrender this battle and will wage it just as long as is necessary to break the will of those who insist on same sex marriages. They should accept their civil partnerships before those are on the chopping block as well. We are not so far forward we cannot roll backward and should the "in your face demonstrations continue", I predict that this is the end to come. Some never no when to quit. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 25, 2008 4:16 AM:

" Hey Devil's Advocate,

Good example you gave. It's a lesson to be learned. I guess that's why it's in the Bible, eh?

That pretty much nails it: Job was the first of his Tribe to utter the term ‘Oy' and really, really mean it!

Don't you think Job was the perfect liberal Democrat of his day? "

B. wrote on Nov 25, 2008 7:00 AM:

" You state in your article that once a child has grown up they make up their own minds who they become. From all the opinions I`ve read here about homosexuals, they claim to be born that way. So what you`re saying is, it actually is a "behavior" choice?
You also state HIV & AIDS have nothing to do with marriage, For your information, 70% of gay men nationwide are infected with HIV. And you want them raising a child? The bottom line here Ms. Ramirez is, the voters have the final say. Not a small group of activist judges in a homosexual city. It`s very unfortunate there are children involved with same sex couples...they didn`t have the choice to chose right from wrong. Their minds have been twisted at a very young age. I don`t like your so called life style and neither did the majority of voters in this state....so Ms. Ramirez, you need to...... "Get Over It." "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Nov 25, 2008 12:38 PM:

" Not really, Alihandero.

Job feared God. "

whitey wrote on Nov 25, 2008 1:06 PM:

" Once again, God is brought into this subject.

I agree with Verionica 100%.

Yes, gays are BORN GAY. It is when they are being raised by prejudice close minded people that insist its wrong, are going to hide their sexuality. And when they grow up and realize, they are not the only one that is gay in this world, do they choose to make it known.

I dont understand why my comments are not getting posted on topics such as these. How can the sentinel put up a letter from a horrible joe florez saying god gave aids as a payback, but i cant say what i feel about the situation and why people are always bringing religion into this matter.

I dont see any guy complaining when there are 2 hot chicks making out or having relations on after hour shows like showtime or skin a max (cinemax) what is the problem? "

Angie wrote on Nov 25, 2008 1:36 PM:

" Devils Advocate-
Your comment was awesome! "

Angie wrote on Nov 25, 2008 1:37 PM:

" Jeff-
Can you prove God DOESN'T exist? "

Alan G wrote on Nov 25, 2008 2:52 PM:

" Silly rabbit, it's not necessary to prove a negative. "

jeff wrote on Nov 25, 2008 3:09 PM:

" Angie,

No, of course not - this has been discussed before -can you prove that god DOES exist?

There is a principle knows as “Occam’s razor”. You should start there. "

jeff wrote on Nov 25, 2008 3:15 PM:

" Angie,

Sorry I should have added this to my response to you. I have had the argument you are trying to embark on many times before. Please realize that if you’re going to continue further. I will say this. What if someone walked up to you and said “I have a flying purple dinosaur that grants wishes living in my garage”. You say “Wow, this I gotta see”. You are taken to the garage, the door is lifted and you see an empty garage. You say to your friend “I don’t see anything I think you’re crazy”. Your friend says “Oh I forgot to tell you it’s invisible, but I can talk to it and it has physical impact on my life”. So you say “Show me how this works” and your friend replies “I can’t, you just have to believe it” so you reply “I don’t believe you, this dinosaur you told me about doesn’t exist” and your friend then says to you “Prove that it doesn’t”. "

B. wrote on Nov 26, 2008 7:10 AM:

" Whitey......I`d like you to show scientific proof that a person is BORN GAY.
And when your time comes, you`ll wish you`d have known God when you`re standing before him explaining why you did what you did. Count on it. "

whitey wrote on Nov 26, 2008 11:29 AM:

" To B....

Well, as I have many gay and lesbian friends, I do know that they were that way since as long as they can remember.

But, i also stumbled upon this website, so here ya go.

http://borngay.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?questionID=18

please explain to me what you mean when you said "And when your time comes, you`ll wish you`d have known God when you`re standing before him explaining why you did what you did. Count on it"

What did i do?


And, yes,i do know god. I am not gay, but being christian, i dont dare pass judgement on anyone elses right to be happy. that is not my job, or yours. Everyone deserves to be happy. "

whitey wrote on Nov 26, 2008 11:42 AM:

" http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,978923,00.html

heres another one B. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 26, 2008 2:48 PM:

" WOW!

"whitey" attempts to give us proof of the ‘gay gene' when, in fact, he proves the opposite.

Read this from the first reference he told us to go to:

"Simon LeVay, PhD, Neurologist and Co-Founder of the Institute of Gay and Lesbian Education, stated in a 1994 Discover article entitled "Sexual Brain":

"It's important to stress what I didn't find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn't show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain."

This is from a pro gay institute body of knowledge to boot! "

CVexpat wrote on Nov 26, 2008 3:25 PM:

" Hey Jeff,

What about Invisible Pink Unicorns?

;-)

(For on topic relevance, I mainly agree with Veronica. I think people who are pro-discrimination are wrong.) "

toleranttaxpayer wrote on Nov 26, 2008 6:56 PM:

" Some great points Randy. After having a long discussion with some very good friends this weekend, it came to me that by passing prop 8, even the christian fundamentalists could be putting theirselves at risk. For those of you that have been paying attention organized religion is on the decline. Before long the Christians will be the minority. Maybe there will be a new majority in 10, 25, or 50 years. For example the hispanic population is growing quite rapidly in California. It is possible that Catholics could put a measure on the ballot for all Califrnians to not use birth control. Or maybe ban Christians from receiving the same rights as catholics. This prop 8 is not about the religious rights or what is moral. It is about changing the constitution to eliminate the most basic rights for some and not others. And guess what Californians fell for it. All those kids with picket signs worked and to be honest with you, it is down right scary that we couldn't see pass the plot to discriminate. If you voted YES, just remember you or your children may one day be the minority. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 26, 2008 7:32 PM:

" For those looking for proof, perhaps proof isn't what you need maybe it's faith. Faith is a trust if you can't trust in the existence of God you must live a horrible life not trusting others either.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. explained it this way: "Faith is taking steps down a staircase of life you can see the top step but no others, when you continue on knowing there are other steps you are demonstrating what faith is". We don't have to see the other steps we trust that our Lord would not purposely throw us off the balcony, causing us injury.

It doesn't get much simpler than that folks. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 26, 2008 10:08 PM:

" toleranttaxpayer wrote on Nov 26, 2008 8:56 PM:

I guess it is just a risk we will have to take. I like someone who does protest but doesn't tell us why or provide any substance to prove we were wrong just declares it like we are suppose to accept it at face value. Yeah about the time the LGBTQ's accept defeat in this last vote and disappear into the night. "

toleranttaxpayer wrote on Nov 28, 2008 7:26 AM:

" To WatchDog Fred:

Let me guess you are a white upper middle age male ? You probably wouldn't understand the points I made about being a minority.

So Mr. White Middle Age Man, you probably thought the women's right movement was a waste, they should have just given up when they threw all those women in prison for protesting. And u know all those marches during the civil rights movement, what a waste.

Well you talk about faith. Then you should understand that denying a taxpaying community member there most basic right to marry is just wrong. How dare you use the greatest civil rights leader to defend your attack on a minority group.
Yes the majority spoke, I will concede to that. But in the end, there has never been a civil rights movement that has failed in our country. ? "

whitey wrote on Nov 28, 2008 9:08 AM:

" Alihandro,

I see you only read what you want,

Did you also happen to read all the scientists that said there was a gay gene? its a debate. there were more scientists that found the common gene than there were who dont believe it.

and, i am a she. not a he "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 29, 2008 11:02 AM:

" toleranttaxpayer wrote on Nov 28, 2008 9:26 AM:

I would say you are a persecuted man trapped in a woman's body and can't get out. But then that doesn't make me right.
You are absolutely right any rightful and legal civil right has already passed in this great country. But as I've said many times before there is a significant difference between a right and a choice.

But Good Luck to you anyway, I don't care how many times this is voted on the results will be the same in this Golden State of opportunity. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 29, 2008 4:25 PM:

" I am sorry "whitey" but all of the ‘whiteys' I know just happen to be white and men. You are apparently not a man so I stand corrected.

So I will go to your reference AGAIN and quote from the side that argues FOR a ‘gay gene' as follows:

Is there a "gay" gene?
PRO (yes)
"There is no one 'gay' gene. Sexual orientation is a complex trait, so it's not surprising that we found several DNA regions involved in its expression.
Our best guess is that multiple genes, potentially interacting with environmental influences, explain differences in sexual orientation."

-Brian S. Mustanski, PhD, Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Illinois at Chicago

If one keeps looking, I am sure one will find what one is looking for - one way or another. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 29, 2008 5:01 PM:

" Lets go to "whitey's" other reference she gave us from TIME magazine:

"A team at the National Cancer Institute's Laboratory of Biochemistry..."

What is a Cancer Research team looking for but disease and pathology? Gayness as a disease? A novel thought!

They studied AIDS and 80 openly gay brothers who had the disease.

"The fact that 33 out of 40 pairs of gay brothers were found to share the same sequences of DNA in a particular part of the chromosome suggests that at least one gene related to homosexuality is located in that region."

"The NCI researchers concede that their discovery cannot account for all male homosexuality and may be just associated with gayness rather than be a direct cause."

"Simon LeVay, who won wide publicity for an analysis of differences in brain anatomies between straight and gay men, acknowledges that the brains he studied were of AIDS victims, and thus he cannot be sure that what he saw was genetic rather than the result of disease or some aspect of gay life."

Keep looking gang; I'm sure it's not your fault. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 29, 2008 10:53 PM:

" To: toleranttaxpayer wrote on Nov 28, 2008 9:26 AM:

I like many bloggers have to ask when does the part about tolerant kick in or does it? "

Jarred wrote on Nov 30, 2008 2:26 AM:

" Can someone prove that God really thinks homosexuality is a sin?

Sure, the Bible is said to be God's word, but it's written by men. And we all know that men are not always honest. We're hypocrites, we're liars, we cheat, steal and kill. So what was stopping those men from listening to God and writing down their own agendas?

Your faith in the Bible, not God, does not justify what is being done now. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Nov 30, 2008 8:21 PM:

" To: toleranttaxpayer wrote on Nov 28, 2008 9:26 AM:

I dare do that because the later Dr. King's niece is the one who originally made that statement. You have a problem contact her. I guess you weren't expecting that answer now were you?


How dare you use the greatest civil rights leader to defend your attack on a minority group. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 1, 2008 1:55 AM:

" Let me see Bible, Jarred's Blog, I believe I'll go with the Bible which was written by men who weren't so well versed in the act of lies and betrayal. Sorry Jarred, you lose.

How is Subway doing by the way? "

Alihandero wrote on Dec 1, 2008 3:41 PM:

" Hey Watchdog,

You know, I always get the Subway "Jarred" confused with the Verizon cellphone guy...

I still believe the underlying purpose for the ‘gays have rights' campaign is this:

Homosexuals desperately want the world to believe that their personal choice and lifestyle is NOT an aberration of society or biology but that it's good, normal, proper, and healthy - and we all just better accept it.

That would be OK if the vast world population sees it as such, but the populace knows what is normal and what is not.

Thankfully we have the freedom to believe in - and vote for - what is in our hearts and minds. "

nevadaguy wrote on Dec 1, 2008 4:41 PM:

" Just Saw a great film in L.A. Last weekend "Milk" starring Sean Penn as slayed openly gay San Francisco supervisor Harvey milk. Milk was assasinated along with Mayor Gerge Moscone by fellow Supervisor Dan White, a anti gay right wing christian.. (a guy like "Watchdog Fred"), Penn and fellow cast mates Josh Brolin as White and James Franco as Milk' s lover give awesome performances...film opens nation wide this Friday. A relevant film after the passing of Prop 8! "

Amanda R wrote on Dec 1, 2008 6:03 PM:

" Everyone is, for a fact, born naked. I don't need to read a study on that one. So, would all the Prop 8 opponents vote for a law that allows nudists to practice their lifestyle in mainstream society? I bet you wouldn't want to see that at the Thursday Night Market! "

Melissa wrote on Dec 1, 2008 11:44 PM:

" Amanda R. LOL girl you come up with some stretches. ok ok ok I will bite, what in the world does running around the Farmers Market naked have to do with same sex marriage, or the way religious fanatics treat homosexuals? Would I pass for them to be able to run freely, hmmmm freedom of expression hmmmm what do you think? The difference is that to nudists it is not about showing their body to as many people as they can, it is about the freedom of being in the most natural state. Most nudists will only be naked in their homes, or at colonies among other nudists. So are you implying that we should be in colonies too? LOL I hope not cause that would be one more derogatory, segregated comment coming from another religious person. "

jeff wrote on Dec 2, 2008 1:02 PM:

" Amanda R,

No one is born a Christian so when you indoctrinate your kids into your belief system should that be considered unnatural and illegal? "

Amanda R wrote on Dec 2, 2008 8:09 PM:

" My point is why should they have to live in "colonies"? Why is nudity in public a punishable offense, is it not their right to live as they please? Social standards say it is not their right to force us to accept it. Some things are found in nature (nudity, cannibalism, murder, incest) that are not acceptable in human society. If we start saying it's okay for anyone to marry whomever they choose, which group is next to fight for their "rights"? I am not here to make "derogatory, segregated" comments. I am saying don't use the "it's natural, we were born this way" to tell us why we should accept same-sex marriage. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:19 AM:

" To: Alihandero wrote on Dec 1, 2008 5:41 PM

What do you call a Mormon who supported Proposition 8?

Right! "

navyvb wrote on Dec 3, 2008 9:21 AM:

" Jarred wrote on Nov 30, 2008 4:26 AM:

" Can someone prove that God really thinks homosexuality is a sin?

Sure, the Bible is said to be God's word, but it's written by men. And we all know that men are not always honest. We're hypocrites, we're liars, we cheat, steal and kill. So what was stopping those men from listening to God and writing down their own agendas?

Your faith in the Bible, not God, does not justify what is being done now. "


<---- thats exactly what im thinking! men wrote the Bible, and thats why I don't believe every word it says. It has great stories, and a moral to each one. Does that make every one of them fact? NO! I put my faith in GOD, not the Bible. I don't like to have too many opinions on any religious beliefs, because thats what religions are, opinion! "

jeff wrote on Dec 3, 2008 11:19 AM:

" WOW must be a lot of comments if it's taking over 24 hours to review, approve/disapporve and post new comments. "

Melissa wrote on Dec 4, 2008 6:21 PM:

" navyvb I could not agree with you more, that is my stance on religion. I believe in God, however organized religion is an opinion based on a book written by men. Not to mention there are many religions who take their own take to that very book.

Amanda R. Murder, incest, rape? Again are you serious? You do realize that those acts cause bodily harm to another human being, what does my marrying my girlfriend have to do with bodily harm? We are born this way, at age 12 I did not decide I was going to be homosexual. How about you and all the other religious fanatics stop shoving religion down everyones throat? You are not so entitled to decide what is right or wrong for anyone else. You can only decide that for you. It is none of your business who I marry as that it does not effect you one way or the other. Nor is it up to you to tell me what I should consider "right" or "moral". According to your religion, Christianity, it is not your place to make those decisions. Live your life, stop trying to live mine. "

Amanda R wrote on Dec 4, 2008 10:13 PM:

" Where did I mention morality in this blog? How does incest hurt another person? You just brought religion into this one, not me. I am entitled to vote, which is what I did (for Prop 8, by the way). I am not a "religious fanatic" shoving anything down anyones throat. Jeff, you get more ridiculous with every post. "

jeff wrote on Dec 5, 2008 9:49 AM:

" Amanda R,

The problems with your arguments are easy to debunk. Gay people already exist. Gay people already adopt or have their own children. Gay people are already gay in public. Gay people already have gay sex. Illegalizing gay marriage would do nothing to end the artificial issues you bring up. The only reason you could have to keep gay marriage illegal is to keep homosexuality one step closer to being illegal.

No one is arguing that anyone should be able to marry anyone they chose. The argument is that two consenting adults should be able to marry each other. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Dec 5, 2008 3:17 PM:

" to Melissa, Amada R is pointing out things that occur naturally in nature, just like some pro gay marriage are trying to do to say gay marriage is ok. But when asked an honest question, since the truth is that we are all born naked, then what is wrong with people "exposing" themselves? Shouldn't you be the first to defend them since like you they were born that way? You made what I presume to be a valid point about naturalist / nudist, their intent isn't to expose themselves but to enjoy the feeling of being natural (nude). They only do it in "colonies" as you suggest or otherwise they would be arrested for indecent exposure. And what gives you the right to ram your choice in lifestyles down Amanda R's and my throat? You accuse us of bieng bigots, but yet just like you like to point out, you don't know me from Adam, so how can you know that I am a bigot? Rather I am a person that judges people on their actions and not their cover. "

Amanda R wrote on Dec 5, 2008 10:31 PM:

" Jeff, why stop at two consenting adults? If marriage is a right, then why should that right only extend to two adults?
Also, only one person in a gay relationship can have a child that is biologically theirs. The other partner can have another child that is theirs, but those two partners cannot biologically share a child.
I don't care if people are gay. I wouldn't vote to make homosexuality illegal. I believe marriage is one man, one woman only. Straight people do not choose to be straight. Have you heard the term "opposites attract"? They attract for a reason. I believe humans are created to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex for the simplest reason: continuation of the species. It is not in nature's best interest to have humans who are attracted to the same sex. There was a time when you couldn't tell the morals of a Christian from the morals of a non-believer. There was a higher standard to uphold. I am not a bigot, I have not judged a single homosexual on here. It's my belief that marriage should continue to be defined as one man, one woman. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 5, 2008 11:05 PM:

" To: jeff wrote on Dec 5, 2008 11:49 AM:

Why does your comparison always have to supposedly rub someone's grain the wrong way. If people want to run around nude at Market Place, I don't mind as long as they don't run in to me personally.

Let er' rip, but I can't say the same for the Hanford Police Department. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 5, 2008 11:28 PM:

" Someone tell me when voting became an unfair way to determine what should and should not be in this country. It has been how the Senate, Congress have made decisions ever since their begining! The Sentate has been charged with voting on and writining all the bills that become law since their inception. Now all of a sudden this is not a just and fair way to do things because the LGBTQ's lost their war against the people voting on a Proposition they didn't like so much!
Where were they when the Queen of England was in charge of this little continent? If you didn't agree with her in those days you were beheaded.

Thank God we aren't there any more. I just don't understand why we didn't rebell against every tax law we didn't like down through the years. How many people like to pay taxes. If this works maybe we need to consider another tea party? "




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