B. wrote on Nov 29, 2008 11:28 AM:
" Well spoken James,,,,,,well spoken. "
SueB wrote on Nov 29, 2008 11:51 AM:
" Open can, worms come out! Here we go again.
To James, they don't get it. Plain and simple. There is no use telling them over and over again. They will not get it until the Holy Spirit opens their eyes to the truth revealed in God's word.
(let's see if this comment gets approved, none of my others do) "
Devil's Advocate wrote on Nov 29, 2008 1:38 PM:
" How is this Letter "loving your enemy"? "
Dandre wrote on Nov 29, 2008 3:15 PM:
" King james hads spoken! I missed scripture that made ignorance His 'spokesman''....
James, you better start paying attention to YOUR salvation rather than looking like a bigot who thinks he has the 'right' to 'cast the first stone'. "
gees wrote on Dec 1, 2008 1:16 PM:
" Give it up already! Prop 8 lost, gays and lesbians will not get married, not lets get something new to harp about. enough is enough "
jeff wrote on Dec 1, 2008 3:17 PM:
" James, SueB and B.
Can any of you supply one piece of tangible evidence that suggests your god exists? I’ll give you a hand here, the Bible does not count. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 1, 2008 4:58 PM:
" To: jeff wrote on Dec 1, 2008 3:17 PM:
You go build me a replica of the Grand Canyon to size. Build me a copy of Bridal Veil Falls in Yosemite to size. Duplicate Yellowstone National Park to size with giezers included. Duplicate the vast oceans and land masses that the world contains to size. Now when you get that all done I want a duplicate copy of Adam and Eve to size and capability. The capability for the body to heal itself, can you duplicate that Jeff? Can you move mass formations of sand and form deserts and have all this done in six days and you may rest on the seventh.
I rest my case upon your nonsense and intent that there is no higher being directing our lives and controlling this atmosphere to a degree not possible by mere mortal man.
Nice try Jeff but I think you failed the test. "
dose wrote on Dec 1, 2008 7:21 PM:
" Hey Fred the Grand Canyon does not prove God exists, all it proves is that over time water will cut through stone. "
Melissa wrote on Dec 1, 2008 9:40 PM:
" Watchdog Fred, have you ever heard of science? It explains all those events in great detail without having to have faith that it truly does exsist. I think what Jeff is asking you to provide is the same proof that God exsists/ "
Dandre wrote on Dec 1, 2008 10:57 PM:
" Hey, fred, you just 'proved' that Mother Nature IS God! I knew He was a Woman!!
Or the Arabs because Du Bai FEATURES just about everything you described!
and who did cain and abel pro-create with, back then, phred ‘the pharoah’?
YOUR case just got ‘thrown’ out of court! "
The_One wrote on Dec 2, 2008 12:14 AM:
" Watchdog Fred, thank you very much for demonstrating that my God exists and creates beautiful things, now here is the trick.... can you prove your God exists?!!! Namaste :)
I have long believed that this issue is lost as the proponents of this prop are/have been fighting on two fronts. They are fighting the law for rights and they are fighting the impossible battle of forcing their morality on others, namely hardened Christians, by calling it marriage. While I have no problem with gay marriage I do believe that this is legal folly. This is also just as bad as those whom they call judgmental, a childish game of "You better like and accept me or else my God will beat up yours!"
Some of us like a world full difference, different ideas, beliefs, goals, morals, cultures, etc... and some are afraid of it... Personal choice I guess :-P
Anyhow, these are my two cents! "
O. G. wrote on Dec 2, 2008 7:29 AM:
" dose wrote on Dec 1, 2008 7:21 PM:
" Hey Fred the Grand Canyon does not prove God exists, all it proves is that over time water will cut through stone.
For the Grand Canyon to be formed by the Colorado River, water would have had to run uphill. The Grand Canyon was carved by a massive release of water in a short time. "
Scott Tucker wrote on Dec 2, 2008 11:23 AM:
" The Grand Canyon was formed as a result of geological forces causing the Colorado Plateau to rise over time. Pre-existing waterways cut into the ground as the ground was uplifted from below. No acts of god were involved, nor were any massive releases of water. "
jeff wrote on Dec 2, 2008 1:00 PM:
" B.,
If 85% of Americans are Christians how can a very small minority be ruining morals in our country? Atheists are very small in number even after counting 85% of Americans as Christians you still need to factor in Muslims, Jews, Budhists, Hindu's and everything else before you come to the segment of the population who chose to not beleive in fairy tales. It seems to me that "Faith" is the leading cause of destruction.
None of you have offered any tangible evdidence for God - You know that you can't. And no, I don't have to disprove God, you're the one making the claim, the burden of proof falls on you. "
jeff wrote on Dec 2, 2008 1:02 PM:
" Fred,
The evidence you give doesn't even come close to the task I gave you. Oceans and mountains do not prove a higher being much less the Christian God. I asked for tangible proof of the Christian God. Even if I were to concede that oceans and mountains suggest a higher being that in no way proves Christianity. "
chuck21 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 2:56 PM:
" To all the science guru's and the god squads out there, can either side prove where we actually came from. Thats right nobody knows for certain so it's up in the air. Until someone has the answer, this is pretty much a useless argument. "
dose wrote on Dec 2, 2008 4:32 PM:
" Hey B. I'll prove God doesn't exist.
God if you exist write a comment to me on this website proving that you are God.
Now lets all see how long it takes for God to get back to me.
O.G. by all means explain to me about this mysterious rush of water that created the Grand Canyon. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:20 PM:
" To: O.G.
The release of a massive source of water in a short time. That could be explained away as mother hature, if it was the mother of all water sources.
Come on O.G. you know who made that water flow up hill and quickly at that, these non believers always want to attribute everything they can't believe into science. But I'm still waiting for someone to invent something as self healing as the human body and no one can provide it, I wonder why. Not a single scientist has stepped forward even wanting to accept the task. "
Melissa wrote on Dec 2, 2008 11:04 PM:
" B. cont...I am not sick, I am not twisted. You know nothing about me, in fact had you met me on the street you would never know I am a lesbian. What you would know had you met me on the street is that I take care of my two nephews who are with me majority of the week anywhere I go in town, You would probly see me buying food, or drinks for my terminally ill mother who is basically house bound except for doctors and even then you might find me there with her. You might find me at school, studying hard to make a difference in this world. Does that sound like a sick person? Had you met me during one of my daily routines you would never have passed that judgment, you only say those things because you know I am gay, not because you know who I am. Judge not lest ye be judged or otherwise according to your religion you are just as bad, and I will meet you in the after life. "
chuck21 wrote on Dec 3, 2008 12:41 AM:
" Can anyone prove that our existence was created by god or science? "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 3, 2008 9:52 AM:
" To: Dandre wrote on Dec 1, 2008 10:57 PM:
Wrong again dandy dre' the jury may still be out but the trials move on. As for Cain and Abel, I thought God already settled that score. What now you are greater than God. I knew this was coming, it had to, with your doubt, lack of repentance, biased against God, this just had to surface eventually. You like many of those artists during your era think you are greater than God, so did John L. of the Beatles. I read the other day where the Pope finally pardoned him for that accusation, after all these years. I wonder if God did also? "
LH wrote on Dec 3, 2008 1:25 PM:
" I'm sorry, I thought I lived in the United States where religion and government are separate. It isn't right to use a religious argument, to back up a bogus governmental law. It isn't hurting you, or taking anything from you to allow same sex marriages. Quit being so selfish and allow others to experience the happiness of being with the one you love. "
Tony wrote on Dec 3, 2008 2:40 PM:
" Why is this even an issue? Voters have spoken TWICE!! To me homosexuals demand evrything equal and have made progress in the workplace by gaining rights through our court system.
Now the same courts and government which they hailed and were protected by before they openly mock and criticize now.
There are countries where they can go and be married...I call them...'Gods Blind Spots'.
To truly be happy maybe a move is in order. "
liberalguy wrote on Dec 3, 2008 10:12 PM:
" This makes me very sad. Growing up I went to church every week, was very involved in my church as I grew up. I was taught that God loves you no matter who you are or what you do. I was taught he loved us so much that he sent his son to die for us, because God knows we are not perfect, we are all flawed in one way or another. As I have grown up and have seen more and more people in the church preach that because they go to church or say that they are christian that they are better than those who do not believe, or have different beliefs. It makes me sad that the people who scream the loudest about God and faith are the ones that say, that God will punish you if you do something bad. Where are the believers who will speak out against those people, and show how kind and loving God is? Where is the God that I was taught about as a kid? To paraphrase Niche, I think that God is dead. That makes me very sad. "
NotHomeGrown wrote on Dec 4, 2008 5:02 PM:
" to liberalguy, I think that many of us that try to explain our beliefs and use religion do try to live by live and let live, but that doesn't mean that I have to roll over and let others tread upon my beliefs. Many posters ask why do we let the gays live with those they love? I have never said anything to the contrary. Yes I am against same sex marriage, but that has nothing to do with letting them live together. I do not bash them with words of hurt, but do stand up for my right to believe as I do. Others have posted love the sinner but hate the sin, isn't that exactly what all of us that voted Yes on 8 did? By voting down something that would have legalized a sin? I haven't said anything about rounding up all of the gays and locking them up or executing them. I have said live and let live. Yet it is hard to feel compassion for people who do not respect others beliefs. continued "
NotHomeGrown wrote on Dec 4, 2008 5:10 PM:
" to liberalguy, continued Watchdog Fred (WDF) has stated many times where is the outcry from the gay side about those that are making it difficult for Mormons to enter their temples for worship? After all the Mormons are protected under the constitution specifically as a religion whereas the gay community is not specifically addressed as covered by the constitution for their actions. To me their actions speak volumes against their cause rather than for it. I too hope that my God is caring and compassionate as I was brought up to be and hope that he will pardon me for all of my sins. And I have stated here my own personal believe that it is a person's action that they will be judged on, not their weekly attendance to a place of worship of their choice. Please also notice that I have never used the term "Christianity" in this post, for God emcompasses, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Mormons and perhaps even a few more sects. Even the Native Americans believed in a supreme being, yet had none of the teachings of any of 3 major religions. "
Devils Advocate wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:04 PM:
" liberalguy, I would suggest reading the Bible if you want to know where the God of your youth went. There is a strong chance that someone was giving you a soft-sell version of Christianity that leaves out all the scary parts, the parts that make you REALLY appreciate God's grace. There is a reason its called a narrow road. "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it." - Jesus. God loves you no matter who you are or what you do? Sounds kinda like a wide gate. There is a reason Jesus preached repentance. Telling God, "Thanks for letting your son die for me, but I'm going to continue to embrace everything he took my punishment for doing, even if you've told me not to."; why don't you just give him the finger? Seriously, the Bible - read it.
Have to agree with you though about people claiming to be Christians getting all uppity - I've seen it happen and have done it myself, to my shame. "
Tony wrote on Dec 4, 2008 8:12 PM:
" To Dose
Blasphemy will send you someplace very warm.
Warmer than Death Valley......same scenery.
Your whole...'I'm going to piss off the Christians' only makes you look like a hater.
To me you sound in need of salvation...and possibly better morals....sorry you don't believe. "
Melissa wrote on Dec 4, 2008 9:20 PM:
" Tony LOL you know how many times I have heard you suggest we move? How about this, since it is so bothersome to you that we live in a country where we can fight for our rights and have the freedom of speech to do so why dont you move somewhere else? Somewhere more dictatorship like? I can help you with the plane ticket if you like? LOL "
the_one wrote on Dec 4, 2008 9:38 PM:
" Fred,
"you still need to factor in Muslims, Jews, Budhists, Hindu's and everything else..."
One minor correction to your comment: Buddhism does not have an external "God" and does not belong in that list. There have been great philosophical debates as to whether Buddhism is even a "religion". Regardless it is the antithesis of western religion as it teaches an internal focus rather than an external focus.
You do have a point. It is pointless to try to prove or disprove God or whatever you believe. When I feel the need to prove or disprove my beliefs it becomes an opportunity look at what is threatening me or causing the need, which is usually a contradiction, and reconciling it. i.e. constant growth... If what someone believes is working for them and helping them grow spiritually then that is the point. Personally I believe what I believe and I do not care if anyone else joins me, I find peace in my beliefs. The question is, if one is threatened by others beliefs and views then isn't one really just fearful of potential contradiction and the implication that no one has the absolute truth?
Just some food for thought "
panzer wrote on Dec 5, 2008 10:37 AM:
" You have every right to not believe, just as much as I have every right to believe. It is NOT ok to use hate crimes/hateful words against those that have choose and or are born into gay/lesbian lifestyle. Its not ok to boycott any company that advertises to them specifically. It is not ok to grab your child and hold them close while a gay couple walks by, its not contagious and you look rude.
Why marriage? For two purposes: bringing children into the world and rearing them and for the mutual help of the husband and wife. "
jeff wrote on Dec 5, 2008 12:05 PM:
" the_one,
I’m assuming you were talking to me because the quote you attributed to Fred was said by me and not Fred. If I am wrong let me know.
Yes some people believe that Buddhism is not a religion but it is still a belief system. Atheism is not a religion but it does address spirituality as does Buddhism so it would need to be taken into consideration. Also, many people do believe Buddhism to be a religion. You can argue it is or is not a religion all day if you want to it really doesn’t change what I said. You’re nitpicking semantics. The rest of your statements are really just the same things I’ve always said. "
manuel wrote on Dec 5, 2008 5:27 PM:
" JAMES some people like Ms Ramirez cant understand why the Creator made Adam and Eve and not Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve Manuel Hanford "
The_One wrote on Dec 6, 2008 1:05 AM:
" Jeff, you are absolutely correct. I realized my mistake in addressing Fred after posting and did not know how to change it. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 6, 2008 1:21 AM:
" To: LH wrote on Dec 3, 2008 1:25 PM:
It's time this was asked if you just want to be left alone to have your same sex marriage and we should leave it alone and allow it?
Then why should you not call it something besides a sanctified marriage and leave the sanctity, religous ceremony between one man and one woman alone?
Give me one good reason why you must steal our term a similar ceremony if your relathionship is so great and loving? I would think you'd be honored to be different for years you proclaimed what made you so wonderful was because you were different. So go away and be different all you want just don't use the term marriage.
You claim we have damaged marriage so much down through the years. Well we must have made it look pretty darn good for you to be so jealous of it. That you crave it more than any other single freedom you now possess. Because who's to say new laws aren't going to be passed if you keep pushing the envelope? "
Evil Spotter wrote on Dec 6, 2008 8:53 AM:
" Being gay is a choice. Quit demanding special treatment for the sake of the choices you choose to make. Quit trying to change words in the dictionary. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 8, 2008 7:28 PM:
" Here it is five days later and I am still waiting for an answer to my question. I guess there really isn't one is there? A same sex marriage could be called something else. "
Melissa wrote on Dec 9, 2008 4:14 AM:
" Watchdog Fred the reason no one is addressing that comment is because it has been address many times before, once more it is because that is discrimination. You can not tell one group of citizens they can have something and another they can not. What you can have I too should be able to have, I am a human just like you, I am also a tax paying citizen of California. "
The_One wrote on Dec 9, 2008 10:09 PM:
" Melissa, while I feel for your plight and I agree with you that it is discrimination the folly is that Watchdog Fred just stated in fairly plain terms that he has no issue with gay partnerships gaining the same rights as regular heterosexual partnerships where the state is concerned. The problem is that state marriage and Christian marriage use the same term so while you are fighting the state you are also taking on the Christian community. Separate the two and you have a winnable war. If it were called, for example, a legal partnership, then much of the opposition would melt away.
By the way, here is another way to decrease that opposition. If the community were truly interested in rights instead of religious and moral acceptance then expand the scope. Imagine the benefit a few old widows, as friends and nothing more, would have if they could pool their resources and have some say in the others estate or medical decisions.
By the way, I was am still am a supporter as I do not feel that the world should be limited to my views and lifestyle. (what a boring place that would be!!) "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 10, 2008 5:05 AM:
" To: Melissa wrote on Dec 9, 2008 4:14 AM:
But you don't understand that issue has already been decided by an amendment to the California Constitution and is therefore a mute issue. So why shouldn't a decided issue be put to bed and called another name or does it even make sense to justify it with a comment since it is no longer legal in California?
I guess the voters have spoken "whether you like it or not" and said no more same sex marriages, period. "
Alihandero wrote on Dec 10, 2008 7:43 AM:
" So, today is National "Call in Gay" day, right?
I wonder how many Kings County citizens are calling in 'gay' today to get out of work or school and going to protest somewhere.
With the economy in the crapper, who will be brave enough to risk being fired over a stunt like this?
Show of hands... "
NotHomeGrown wrote on Dec 10, 2008 3:14 PM:
" To Mellissa: What part of being equal don't you get, you can marry a man, just like Fred can marry a woman, therefore no discrimination. Discrimination means not affording someone the same thing, i.e. riding in the front of the bus. You are allowed to marry, just like anyone else has in the past. Now to claim that all of those men that married women, or women that married men are keeping you from doing the exact same thing is a complete lie. NO, instead you want everyone to change that institution to suit your own special requests. When WDF asks, why can't you settle for having all of the same rights granted to you under a different term, you don't answer but instead say he is discriminating against you? I don't follow your logic, when you the minority instead want to discriminate against the majority that still believe marriage is between a man and a woman. "
jeff wrote on Dec 10, 2008 4:00 PM:
" I thought this was America the land of the free not America the land of the few being oppressed by the many. If you people want to live somewhere that discriminates and uses the word of God as law move to the Middle East. "
B. wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:09 AM:
" "Homosexuals are a group of people, bound not by ethnicity, creed, or religious affiliation, but by behavior. Behavior is something it is government's business to control and regulate. The kind of protected status that homosexuals here seek is something this nation has denied throughout its history. We have never allowed protected status based on behavior. Nor can we ever start, for it would be a recipe for chaos."
George Washington said, "It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. Of all the dispositions and habits that lead to politlcal prosperity, our religion and morality are indispensable supporters. Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." "
B. wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM:
" Patrick Henry, one of our nation's Founding Fathers, said, "Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated (ruined) state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatable with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."
Of the 55 signers of The Declaration of Independence, a majority were orthodox, deeply committed Christians. All of them believed in the Bible as the divine truth, the God of Scripture, and his personal intervention. To say that our Founders believed religion and politics to be incompatible is to deny the true foundation and beliefs our nation was based upon. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:06 PM:
" To: Melissa wrote on Dec 9, 2008 4:14 AM:
As NHG Not Home Grown has so eloquently pointed out your discrimination complaint does not hold water. If I was saying you couldn't get married period, it would be discrimination. That is not what I am saying you have the same right I do to marry someone of the opposite sex. Therefore it is not discriminatory, you can get married anytime you find the right man.
If you insist on marrying someone of the same sex, then I insist you call it something besides a marriage. You are within your right and I am within my right, plain and simple no discrimination here. "
jeff wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:25 PM:
" B.,
Washington never said that it is a myth http://www.religioustolerance.org/badquotes.htm
You say it is the government’s job to control and regulate behavior. What is religion? The Bible is nothing more than a life manual or a book that tells you how to behave. If it is the government’s job to tell you how to behave why bother with the bible?
Your quote by Patrick Henry could easily be used against you. You are the one trying to force your beliefs on others – sounds like tyranny to me.
A large majority of the signers of The Declaration of Independence were not orthodox or deeply committed Christians, another myth. Look into it.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Founding-Fathers---Christian-Or-Not
Fred,
Wrong, her rights are being taken away. Just because she is allowed to do what you are allowed to do doesn’t mean a right isn’t being taken away. The sad thing here is that you are losing rights and seem perfectly happy to let your rights be taken from you. I have no intentions of ever marrying another man but I would prefer to retain all the rights due to me as a citizen regardless. "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:41 PM:
" To: jeff wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:25 PM:
I bet you have problems with authority figures in your life too don't ya? "
B. wrote on Dec 12, 2008 12:31 AM:
" No Jeff.......you`re wrong.......as a matter of fact, you`re a myth. "
jeff wrote on Dec 12, 2008 5:44 PM:
" Fred,
Yes
B.,
Do me a favor and convince the I.R.S. of that will ya? "
Watchdog Fred wrote on Dec 12, 2008 8:34 PM:
" To: jeff wrote on Dec 12, 2008 5:44 PM:
There is another topic, I'm not paying my taxes because the IRS won't allow me to deduct my pet but you can deduct your child. "
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