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First Rights: President Obama, meet President Reagan

President Obama is strongly disinclined to support an independent investigation of possible criminal violations of U.S. laws and international treaties by the highest levels of the Bush-Cheney administration. He also has no personal interest in going after those Justice Department lawyers who, in 2002 and later, declared "enhanced interrogation techniques" lawful. Says Obama: "Nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past."

In a sardonic response to the president and to those "torture memos" lawyers, Dahlia Lithwick, legal affairs columnist for Slate (April 17), says those lawyers tell us that "it isn't torture if you can get over it."

More somberly, Caroline Fredrickson, director of the ACLU's Washington legislative office, says plainly: "Our government engages in torture. There were vast human rights abuses that took place during the Bush administration. And we're just moving on?"

It's time to bring President Ronald Reagan into this increasingly heated debate -- not only in this country but also among some of our allies who believe, as does our Senate Armed Services Committee, that U.S. torture policy was an effective recruiting tool for the terrorists.

International lawyer Scott Horton -- on his Harper's magazine Web site, "No comment" (May 6), recalls that Reagan vigorously championed U.S. ratification of the international Convention Against Torture, which he signed in 1988. This treaty is the primary international foundation of anti-torture law, and Reagan acclaimed its having marked "a significant step in the development ... of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment.

"Ratification of the Convention by the United States," Reagan continued, "will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately prevalent in the world today."

And, I remind Obama, Reagan cited the Convention's establishment of an agreement "for international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of tortures (by) relying on so-called 'universal jurisdiction,'" requiring each nation signing the Convention "to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution." This includes officials who authorized torture.

As I write this, Spain, under "universal jurisdiction," has begun criminal proceedings against six high-level officials in the Bush administration -- among them "torture memos" writers John Yoo and Jay Bybee -- for involvement in the use of torture in our prison in Guantanamo Bay.

The only way for Spain to stop this prosecution is if there is a similar process actually under way in the United States. That is Spanish law. But Obama would still rather look forward than backward.

I would also like to bring into this conversation about restoring our reputation not only in the world but, most importantly, among future generations of Americans -- a history teacher and college counselor at Friends' Central School in Wynnewood, a suburb of Philadelphia.

What Grant Calder tells his students is important for all of us who care about American history, past, present and future.

Fortunately, Calder teaches in a school where American history is still being taught -- instead of the time-devouring teaching for tests to meet the pressures of local, state and federal mandates. In "Deciding what we won't do" (philly.com/inquirer/opinion), he tells of reminding his students of times of fear in our history when many Americans -- including local, state and federal legislators -- strongly believed they "were justified in believing that Soviet leaders hated capitalists and their institutions -- and were bent on destroying them."

The "Red Scare" here began in the 1920s and crested with the signing of the Hitler-Soviet pact in 1939. As Calder told his class, George Kennan -- an important figure in American diplomatic history -- was serving as chief of mission at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow when he wrote in 1946 what was, for a time, a secret memorandum, "The Long Telegram." Sent to Secretary of State George Marshall, it was signed "X."

Kennan was clearly under no illusions as to the dangers of that cruel and often inhuman dictatorship, but, as Calder emphasized to his students, Kennan urged:

"We must have courage and self-confidence to cling to our own methods and conceptions of human society. After all, the greatest danger that can befall us in coping with this problem of Soviet communism, is that we shall allow ourselves to become like those with whom we are coping."

While unquestionably desiring to keep us safe, the Bush-Cheney team did not remember that lesson, if they ever knew it.

If there is not an honest, thorough investigation of their torture policy, future American administrations will also not have learned -- and acted on -- Reagan's and Kennan's wisdom. On Sept. 12, 2001, President George W. Bush pledged: "We will not allow this enemy to win the war by changing our way of life or restricting our freedoms."

He later repeatedly assured the world, "We do not torture." Those pledges were badly broken, to our discredit throughout the world.

Nat Hentoff is a nationally renowned authority on the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights. He is a member of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, and the Cato Institute, where he is a senior fellow.

(May 27, 2009)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Scott Tucker wrote on May 27, 2009 3:17 PM:

" "President Obama is strongly disinclined to support an independent investigation of possible criminal violations of U.S. laws and international treaties by the highest levels of the Bush-Cheney administration."

This is unfortunate. Ask your elected officials to support an independent investigation. Torture is wrong and those who supported its use should be investigated. Otherwise, torture will forever cast its shadow over all of us who allowed it to happen. "

Alihandero wrote on May 27, 2009 3:46 PM:

" This title is a tad misleading:

"First Rights: President Obama, meet President Reagan"

By Nat Hentoff

The only thing they have in common is, besides being elected President, they are both tall. "

jeff wrote on May 29, 2009 2:53 PM:

" Alex,

It's not misleading at all if you can comprehend English. Nowhere in the title does the author state commonality between Reagan and Obama. "

Pete wrote on May 31, 2009 7:15 PM:

" 50 years ago, no one would describe what was done "torture". Goes to show you how weak and spineless people have become! "

jeff wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:14 AM:

" Pete,

49 years ago black people couldn't ride in the front of a bus. Now that they can is it evidence of weakness? "

Pete wrote on Jun 2, 2009 7:46 AM:

" The black people that were forced to sit in the back of the bus were mistreated, in my opinion. Of course, they weren't trying to kill my family. 48 years ago people working against our country were called Communists, now there are call Libs. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:40 AM:

" To: jeff wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:14 AM:

" Pete,

49 years ago black people couldn't ride in the front of a bus. Now that they can is it evidence of weakness? "

No in fact you can thank a strong willed black woman, not a black man, for that priveledge, by the name of Rosa Parks. "

jeff wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:30 AM:

" Pete,

What are you upset about exactly, huge government spending? What do you think Bush was doing? What do you think McCain would have done? It’s like the argument against the New Deal that states WWII got us out of the depression and the New Deal hurt us. This argument makes absolutely no logical sense. Both were nothing more than government spending. The New Deal spent money on infrastructure and WWII spent money on defense. Either way it was the government spending money. You could take all the tanks, guns, planes, bullets etc. and dump them in the sea, the fighting of the war did nothing to improve our economy, and it was the government spending money and putting people to work.

Fred,

As usual you’ve completely missed the point and are still confused. "

dose wrote on Jun 2, 2009 11:29 AM:

" Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:40 AM:

"No in fact you can thank a strong willed black woman, not a black man, for that priveledge, by the name of Rosa Parks. "

Fred, exactly what does this have to do with the current discussion. "

Pete wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:51 PM:

" Bush and McCain aren't President. I just don't like weak, spineless people. As a Lib, Jeff, you must know what I mean. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 3, 2009 12:21 PM:

" Arguably, the descent into this dark fantasyland - that Ronald Reagan began in the early 1980s - reached its nadir in the flag-waving early days of the Iraq War. Only gradually did reality begin to reassert itself as the death toll mounted in Iraq and the Katrina disaster reminded Americans why they needed an effective government.
Still, the disasters - set in motion by Ronald Reagan - continued to roll in. Bush's Reagan-esque tax cuts for the rich blew another huge hole in the federal budget and the Reagan-esque anti-regulatory fervor led to a massive financial meltdown that threw the nation into economic chaos.
All the while, the ‘lemmings’ pray for another ‘daddy’ Reagan……
…..nope, ‘no spine’ over here!! maybe pete was talking about Rush ‘the jellyfish’s spine????? "

jeff wrote on Jun 4, 2009 9:28 AM:

" Pete,

So you’re saying you didn’t support Bush’s economic policies and didn’t vote for McCain? I’m no Liberal – Any educated individual could see this – but as a free thinking individual yes I know exactly what you mean. Anyone who blindly follows a political party’s ideology without ever questioning their motives or pondering how their backwards logic works must be weak and spineless. As a Republican you must know what I mean. "

Pete wrote on Jun 5, 2009 8:58 AM:

" Jeff, I did not like the excessive spending of Bush and I did not vote for McCain (didn't vote for Obama either). I am proud to be an Republican and I don't know why you are ashamed of being a Lib. You and I will never agree on issues but, hopefully, we can pull together and replace the legislators in the state and federal government. "

Loanman wrote on Jun 5, 2009 9:53 AM:

" Dandre, because of the Bush tax cuts, tax revenue INCREASED 13% and now they are down 34%. Maybe you should research some facts before you make false statements. Tax breaks where for the people who pay taxes! "

jeff wrote on Jun 5, 2009 11:47 AM:

" Pete,

You are afflicted with Republicanitis. This is a debilitating disease that makes you think anyone who doesn't toe the Conservative Christian line is a Liberal. Fortunately for you there is a cure. It's called knowledge.

Fact is I generally don't tell people what my position is on most issues discussed here. What I do is argue against bad logic. Try reading between the lines once in a while. "

jeff wrote on Jun 5, 2009 2:19 PM:

" Loanman,

You can’t just regurgitate something Limbaugh says and have it magically become true. Praising Bush with the tax revenue increase that happened is like praising Clinton for the economy in the nineties. It was going to happen anyways. The tax cuts never even came close to paying for themselves, Bush had to tax other sources in order to hand out his corporate welfare. For instance teenagers investing for college tuition were no longer taxed at their current rate and were taxed like everyone else. So much for no child left behind.

“Dandre, because of the Bush tax cuts, tax revenue INCREASED “

This is like saying, “I quit my job so my income would go down and in turn my revenue could go up”. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 5, 2009 5:02 PM:

" loanman..you contradict yourself..the 34% of lost revenue is while the Bush cuts are still in place and you are regurgitating last year's 'kool-aid'!!!!
Where are all the 'jobs' those 'tax-cuts' create?
The only thing missing from the 'cutting taxes for the rich' BS is the JOBS.....and you call yourself 'loanman'? if you are that easily confused by numbers...hmmm "

Loanman wrote on Jun 6, 2009 11:22 AM:

" Dandre and Jeff, don't feel bad, most Libs don't understand tax breaks. Economists call it the "multiplier effect"--one dollar in tax cuts produces more than one dollar in new economic activity. They don't last forever and the Bush tax cuts DID perk up the economy and job growth. Obama said he's tax cuts would start being felt April 1st and all we have is higher unemployment and interest rates spiking. I know, "it's not his fault". "

Dandre wrote on Jun 6, 2009 2:06 PM:

" Perked up the economy for WHO?
The top incomers DOUBLED that income during W.
Wages went DOWN for everybody else.
Where is the fantasyland that you seem to be stuck in???
KBR electrocutes our troops and the 20%er's are still spouting the same Ann Coulter version of History.
We spent 8 years using our kid's credit card to 'remodel' somebody's else's country emptying our treasuries into the pockets of 'war-profiteers' and wall street and you people sat mesmerized by a 'pseudo-cowboy' and Darth Vader.
You paid over $2000 in taxes this year to cover the interest on the REAGAN DEBT, but you keep drinking that kool-aid.......ignorance is bliss "

Loanman wrote on Jun 6, 2009 3:26 PM:

" Sorry Dandre, history is history, tax breaks worked out GOOD for our economy. You can rant and rave all you want, but you can't change history! "

Dandre wrote on Jun 6, 2009 10:41 PM:

" They have worked out good for the economy?
What planet are you on?
If you are a loanman, your industry and the DEREGULATED banks that turned into casinos with the passage of the Phil Graham Bill, signed by Bill Clinton, gutted our economy.
History is staring you right in the face.
Trickle down voo-doo economics has ruined our manufacturing and it ALL started with Reagan.
That's why 21% admit to being republican because MOST people have figured out the 'double talk' party has given up their pensions for 401k's, so they can feel like their Wallstreeter's too.
Let's see, you protested 'wasteful spending' by BUYING a billion tea bags and dumping them in the river, what a novel idea wasteful spending to protest wasteful spending. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 7, 2009 10:44 AM:

" “This bill is the most important legislation for financial institutions in the last 50 years. It provides a long-term solution for troubled thrift institutions. ... All in all, I think we hit the jackpot.” So declared Ronald Reagan in 1982, as he signed the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act.
He was, as it happened, wrong about solving the problems of the thrifts. On the contrary, the bill turned the modest-sized troubles of savings-and-loan institutions into an utter catastrophe. But he was right about the legislation’s significance. And as for that jackpot — well, it finally came more than 25 years later, in the form of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
For the more one looks into the origins of the current disaster, the clearer it becomes that the key wrong turn — the turn that made crisis inevitable — took place in the early 1980s, during the Reagan years.
Attacks on Reaganomics usually focus on rising inequality and fiscal irresponsibility. Indeed, Reagan ushered in an era in which a small minority grew vastly rich, while working families saw only meager gains. He also broke with longstanding rules of fiscal prudence.
(cont.) "

Dandre wrote on Jun 7, 2009 10:45 AM:

" On the latter point: traditionally, the U.S. government ran significant budget deficits only in times of war or economic emergency. Federal debt as a percentage of G.D.P. fell steadily from the end of World War II until 1980. But indebtedness began rising under Reagan; it fell again in the Clinton years, but resumed its rise under the Bush administration, leaving us ill prepared for the emergency now upon us.
The increase in public debt was, however, dwarfed by the rise in private debt, made possible by financial deregulation. The change in America’s financial rules was Reagan’s biggest legacy. And it’s the gift that keeps on taking.
The immediate effect of Garn-St. Germain, as I said, was to turn the thrifts from a problem into a catastrophe. The S.& L. crisis has been written out of the Reagan hagiography, but the fact is that deregulation in effect gave the industry — whose deposits were federally insured — a license to gamble with taxpayers’ money, at best, or simply to loot it, at worst. By the time the government closed the books on the affair, taxpayers had lost $130 billion, back when that was a lot of money.
(cont) "

Dandre wrote on Jun 7, 2009 10:50 AM:

" But there was also a longer-term effect. Reagan-era legislative changes essentially ended New Deal restrictions on mortgage lending — restrictions that, in particular, limited the ability of families to buy homes without putting a significant amount of money down.
These restrictions were put in place in the 1930s by political leaders who had just experienced a terrible financial crisis, and were trying to prevent another. But by 1980 the memory of the Depression had faded. Government, declared Reagan, is the problem, not the solution; the magic of the marketplace must be set free. And so the precautionary rules were scrapped.
Reagan Did It
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: May 31, 2009
History of the U.S. Economy without the dittohead 'double- talk'. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 7, 2009 10:55 AM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 5, 2009 5:02 PM

Where is the Presidental Leadership, when his administration celebrates the loss of 350k jobs down from 500k? Then has the gall to advertise it's over, things are looking better. Things won't look better until those 500k jobs per month are new jobs, not lost jobs and it will have to happen for at least a year, just to be where we were before November 2008. So I think your President demonstrates on a weekly basis how much weaker we are in the military and in our economy. The change you seek has made it worse not better dandre. It is as if we are in free-fall mode and things are out of control. The only decision so far that PBO has made, that seemed to work out was the selection of a family pet. But I heard through reliable sources he's not house broken. The dog not PBO.

Once again he travels abroad and apologizes for a country who has nothing to apologize for in the first place. He strengthens relationships with the Muslim's. (Continued) "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 7, 2009 11:03 AM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 5, 2009 5:02 PM

(Continued) While severely deminishing relations with Isreal, Great Britian and other allies. Where is that foreign policy worth backing? Where is exchanging friendships, advancing humanity when you destroy other relationships? You call that diplomacy, I call it selling out and so do our allies? It is not only Isreal who is affected by PBO's actions, but every ally we have has their eye on how Isreal is treated.

It is not up to PBO to tell Isreal where and when it can have settlements in an area that has been undecided for decades on who owns what territory. This further demonstrates PBO's idea he has all the answers and people and countries, are gonna do it his way. Much like the thinking of one Adolph Hitler, who tried to conquer all of Europe and had plans to conquer the world. How anyone can compare President Reagen who said: Mr. Gorbachav, take down that wll", with PBO. Reagen had the foresight, courage to know it was time, he did get the economics rolling, but others took credit for it. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 7, 2009 11:37 PM:

" Fred.. if Obama said it was daytime, you would say it's dark. If he said vanilla, you'd say chocolate, so what else is new?
This man was handed the worst presedential situation since the LAST TIME the Republican party messed things up.
and once again, you snake your way into conjuring up Adolph Hitler when referring to this Administration. Let's see if this response gets censored.
Follow the money, fred, a phrase made famous by another Republican scandal 'Watergate'.
Pull on the thread of Bush 'Money' and it takes you through a 60 year history, including involvement with the Bin Laden’s and whose patriarch, Prescott Bush, did business with the Nazi’s. Hitler, also referred to Germany as the ‘homeland’, that’s why I think in naming the Department of ‘Homeland’ Security, Bush’s roots were showing.
But you keep tellin’ that lie, fred, and who knows, you might start believin’ it because, THANK GOD, not a whole lotta other people do…. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 8, 2009 12:55 AM:

" BEIRUT — Lebanon's pro-Western coalition declared victory early Monday, as … reported the faction had successfully fended off a ..challenge by the Shiite militant group, Hezbollah and its allies to grab the majority in parliament.
Official results for Sunday's election were not expected until later Monday, but the winners were already celebrating by shooting in the air, setting off fireworks and driving around in honking motorcades.
The election was an early test of President Barack Obama's efforts to forge Middle East peace. A win by Hezbollah would have boosted the influence of its backers Iran and Syria and risked pushing one of the region's most volatile nations into international isolation and possibly into more conflict with Israel.
"I present this victory to Lebanon," Prime Minister Fuad Saniora said on television after stations projected his pro-Western coalition was winning. "It is an exceptional day for democracy in Lebanon."
OTV, the television station of one of Hezbollah's key Christian allies, former army chief Michel Aoun, conceded that the party's candidates who challenged pro-Western competitors in several Christian districts had been defeated, preventing a victory for the Hezbollah coalition


'for the times they are a changin' "

jeff wrote on Jun 8, 2009 8:57 AM:

" Loanman,

Congress’s Joint Economic Committee, Edward Lazear, chairman of President Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors, stated, “I certainly would not claim that tax cuts pay for themselves.”

N. Gregory Mankiw, former chairman of President Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors and a Harvard economics professor, wrote in his well-known 1998 textbook that there is “no credible evidence” that “tax revenues … rise in the face of lower tax rates.”

The President’s – George Bush - own Council of Economic Advisors concluded in its Economic Report of the President, 2003, that, “although the economy grows in response to tax reductions (because of the higher consumption in the short run and improved incentives in the long run) it is unlikely to grow so much that lost revenue is completely recovered by the higher level of economic activity.”

Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck are not economists. "

Loanman wrote on Jun 8, 2009 10:04 AM:

" At least everyone who wanted to work was working after the Bush tax cuts. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 8, 2009 11:57 AM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 8, 2009 12:55 AM:

Stay tuned ladies and gentlemen it wouldn't be the first time the Middle Eastern Countries put up a front government. The change will come when there is truly peace in the Middle East. But with wars raging in Iraq, and Afghanistan, I hardly call it peace in the Middle of the Middle East.

You discount Iran's pull in the district of Lebanon way to short my friend. It only takes a minority to start up another blood bath in that region.

Traditionally, if Hesbolah doesn't like the government, it won't last long. "

jeff wrote on Jun 8, 2009 12:02 PM:

" Pre-Bush

USA Unemployment rate - Jan. 2001: 4.2%

Percent population living in poverty - 2001: 12.7%

Americans on food stamps - 2001: 17-million

Budget SURPLUS inherited - 2001: $150-billion

Post-Bush

USA national debt: $5.7--trillion
bush to obama:

USA Unemployment rate - Jan. 2009: 7.6%

Percent population living in poverty - 2009: 17%

Americans on food stamps - 2009: 30-million

Budget DEFICIT inherited - 2009: $1.2-trillion

USA national debt: $11-trillion "

Loanman wrote on Jun 8, 2009 12:17 PM:

" Hate to tell you Jeff but Rush, Hannity and Beck have nothing to do with it, though they have a lot more knowledge than you Libs have ever had. It is a fact that tax breaks perk up the economy. You, Dandre and the other Libs seem to hate any Republican and those Big, Bad Rich People. I have news for you, if it wasn't for those rick people, you little people wouldn't have jobs!. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 8, 2009 11:13 PM:

" Yea, loanman at the peek of the 'latest' bubble there were what? 350.000 loanofficers nationwide, now, 140,000.with a few going to jail.
and those 'tax-cuts' for the first time in American History, during a war. "

Loanman wrote on Jun 9, 2009 9:50 AM:

" And there was 492,000 realtors in California when the Democrat took over the Congress, now it's down to 208,000! Wish Dandre, Jeff and the other Libs would learn who spends the money. "

jeff wrote on Jun 9, 2009 11:08 AM:

" Loanman,

You’re last comment sounds rather childish. It basically equates to “Fine, I’m taking my toys and going home”.

“At least everyone who wanted to work was working after the Bush tax cuts.”

So you’re saying that everyone who was unemployed at that time were unemployed because they chose to be? Not one person in the US was out of work due to circumstances beyond their control?

And you say that I lack knowledge. "

SuziQ wrote on Jun 9, 2009 4:05 PM:

" I have researched every point Loanman has made and they are 100% correct! I think a lot of the points are from common sense, which is not something everyone has. The majority of the people that were unemployed back then could have worked, just wanted something better. One person does not make a majority. "

jeff wrote on Jun 9, 2009 5:20 PM:

" Hey Suzi, care to detail your 'Research'? "

Dandre wrote on Jun 9, 2009 6:42 PM:

" 'Wall Street got drunk' was the 'excuse' d'jour of the W.
Before Reagan, corporate CEOs earned less than 50 times the salary of an average worker. By the end of the Reagan-Bush-I administrations in 1993, the average CEO salary was more than 100 times that of a typical worker. (At the end of the administration, that CEO-salary figure was more than 250 times that of an average worker.)
Rush and his big contract, ask the thousands that Clear Channel ‘laid off’ what they think of that contract.
the multiplier affect of $1 given to a welfare mom generates $1.78 in economic activity. Who spends their money? The poor, they don’t have a choice.
American Heritage and those ‘think tanks’ do a good job of disinformation. They’ve got a ‘stable’ of experts to spin those numbers any way you want,
but let me see if I’ve got this straight the Poor People’s Lobby has weilded their POWER and they are allowing illegal imigrant kids to bankrupt us with ‘free lunches’.
OK "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jun 10, 2009 2:40 PM:

" to jeff and Dandre, if both of you are so against the tax break that Bush gave us, then why are you honking your horns for Obama to stop his? With Bush a lot of people got one big sum, so they went and spent it. With Obama, I'm not getting enough to make the difference that the rising cost of gas is costing me.

I have stated in another post that I was against Bush's tax break, not for his trying to help, but rather for those that got the checks didn't always do wise things, instead of helping our economy by going out to eat or going on a local vacation, they spent it on electronics and boosted up China's economy.

Where is your support for a flat tax rate for all? Why penalize the rich while rewarding the poor? I am not against a person making a lot of money doing an HONEST days work. (continued) "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jun 10, 2009 2:49 PM:

" to jeff and Dandre, (continued) Hopefully my large posts will make it through like Dandre's do. Dandre do you have an inside shot with moderator? Too many of my posts don't make it and they are always under the word count and within the rules of the board.

I am against coporate greed, but both of you act like that is only a Republican thing, but how many of those large corps are Democrat's. Oh that is right, I am sure they kept their salaries to only 50x a normal employee's salary. Just look at all of those Hollywood stars that always support the liberals, I am sure that they are all keeping their salaries in line with what, say Ronnie Reagan made for making a movie. NOT!

I am adult enough to put blame on both sides of the aisle and when I am wrong I admit to my errors.

Now having said that, please list the top ten CEO's and their political affiliation. Let's see if the are Republithugs or something similar term you like to use. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 10, 2009 5:47 PM:

" NHG, there are A LOT of my posts that don’t make it through the sentinel filter either,
The ‘tax-cuts’ for the top 2%, you know the guys whose ‘income’ doubled while ‘Middle Class’ incomes went down for the FIRST time since WW2. THOSE ‘tax-cuts’ for the WEALTHIEST, were also historical, in that NEVER before had the ‘uber-rich’the gall to accept ‘tax-breaks’ during a War, that did no more than fatten their financial portfolios which pumped their new found money into the new bubble of ‘money changers’, aka the recently indicted CEO of Countrywide, who financed ‘conservative’ politicians who could pull on the threads of ‘regulation’ to legalize the ‘exotic money’ whose risk was spread throughout the world but DOMESTICALLY devastated the 401k’s and retirement accounts of the Middle Class. They and the 200 millionaires who lost their ‘fortunes’ are now and always have been ‘collateral damage’ to the ‘uber-rich’. Ridding the system of PENSIONS by tying us all into WallStreet was simply, a blurring of the line and some fell for it.
Hollywood? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 11, 2009 9:59 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 10, 2009 5:47 PM:

You must have laughed all the way to the City Hall, when you read about Bernie, the millionaire killer?

That was probably your way to stick it to the rich. If not for the rich in this nation, the Goodyears, the Rockefeller's, the Dupont's, the Ford's, etc., etc. etc., there never would have been any jobs created in America, with unionized workers receiving the best pay in the history of any civilization.

But you like Obama, want to cut them off at the knees and send them back to 1930's and break everyone's back, but the Politician's & Banker's.

You want to now bust those same unions, who worked so hard, to provide so much, to so many. Re-deal the cards and make the poor rich and the rich poor. What is the sense in that, aren't you creating a like problem in the reverse? Is that what this CHANGE is all about?

You know reverse discrimination, never helped out discrimination, in our entire history! (Continued) "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:05 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 10, 2009 5:47 PM:

(Continued) Mark my word, there will be lawsuits for decades over the shell game, Obama just played with Chrysler. The government, has a lot bigger pockets than Chrysler, so guess who those Republican Dealer's Obama put out of business will be bringing suit against? Obama, might have fooled his supporters, but all this is about Campaign Finances, Republican Campaign Finances. Put the contributors out of business and it clears his way in 2012 to win again. It is already coming out that ACORN urged on by Obama's people played some games with voter registration and voter fraud all over the state of Illinois and other states as well including Nevada. In Nevada a supervisor with ACORN was paying people, to hit a certain talley per day and he didn't care how they hit it. I believe it was 25 voters registered per day, they found people in the graveyard registered to vote, they had people registered twice, all sorts of shinanigans. Any organization, is only as good as its' supervisors and employees. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:30 AM:

" Fred..I want to break the Union’s?? I AM a Union Member!+
The Republican party has been busting Unions for a hundred years!
Union busting and ‘supply side “voo-doo” economics’ are the Ronald Reagan Legacy, along with ‘raising taxes on working people and small businesses, the SAME small businesses that create 75% of the jobs, as President and creating the ‘homeless’ problem in CA as governor by emptying the mental institutions.
and Fred… the ACORN scenario is a STRAWMAN… if people are being paid for signatures and they ‘falsify’ Mickey Mouse’s ‘signature’ a MILLION times in order to ‘defraud’ ACORN for the money.
NO ONE shows up to VOTE a million times CLAIMING to be Mickey Mouse and thereby affecting an election. ACORN, who NOTIFIED the authorities to the signatures, were the ones defrauded of the money they paid for legitimate signatures.
But leave it to you to hyper-ventilate your way into a panic-attack about ‘faux-voter fraud’…typical "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jun 15, 2009 3:13 PM:

" to Dandre, if I recall the tax break that Bush gave to everyone was a set amount based upon filling status and family size, so a poor family ended up getting a higher percentage than the rich, if the rich even got anything.

You still didn't answer my question about why aren't you on your soapbox denouncing Obama's tax cuts or credits or whatever term you want to use.

Here is another one for you, see where Obama's kind heart of giving welfare receipients a little more money may have made them inelligble for food stamps? Give them $25, take away hundreds? Just my kind of guy tough, stop giving freeloaders something for nothing. As you can tell I am against Welfare. I am all for helping someone get back on their feet, but that doesn't mean that I want them just moving over to their La-z-boy. Make them work for it, whether cleaning streets, helping do admin work at schools, hospitals, anything that they are capable of doing, and if it is only washing dishes, then so be it. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 15, 2009 6:27 PM:

" NHG,, you are talking about Bush's 'rebate' from last year, those ARE NOT the TAX-CUTS being discussed...
once again, you chase the 'peanuts' while the 'corporat-ocracy' empties our treasuries. "




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