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Chrysler franchise no more

By Seth Nidever
snidever@HanfordSentinel.com

Kings County's only Chrysler franchise is history. A New York bankruptcy court judge ruled late Tuesday afternoon that Chrysler can go ahead with its plan to terminate its relationship with Liberty Chrysler Jeep Dodge in Hanford and 788 other dealerships nationwide.

The order said that, as of midnight Tuesday, the franchises could no longer act as authorized Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep dealers.

Dwight Nelson, who has owned Liberty since 1991, said he would appeal the ruling.

"Quite honestly, we expected the judge to do this," he said.

In anticipation of the ruling, Liberty has spent the last few weeks whittling down its new car inventory. Manager Rick Jacobs said that whatever new vehicles remained on the lot at midnight Tuesday would be redistributed to other Chrysler dealerships at a loss.

Liberty won't be going out of business. The dealership will continue selling used cars, Jacobs said.

Owner Dwight Nelson said he's thinking about bringing in different brands of new vehicles. Nelson owns the Selma Auto Mall, which sells several brands, including Honda, Chevy and Mazda.

Nelson declined to state what the new line might be.

None of the 23 employees at Liberty have been laid off, he said.

After the recession began in early 2008, Liberty struggled with plunging new car sales, which were down 50 percent in 2008. In 2009, sales dropped again by 45 percent.

Nelson said his attorney has been arguing in court to save the dealership, appealing to the agricultural crisis in the area as the main reason for the sales decline and arguing that it would be unsafe and unreasonable to require local Chrysler, Jeep or Dodge owners to travel out of the county for repairs.

Chrysler LLC says it needs to cut its dealer ranks by about 25 percent as part of its plans to cut costs and quickly emerge from Chapter 11 protection.

By Tuesday afternoon, there were only a few dozen vehicles occupying one small part of the mostly empty Liberty lot on the corner of 11th Avenue and Lacey Boulevard.

Scott Lendrum walked past the cars, eyeing possible replacements for his 2005 Chrysler 300.

He said he had heard that June 9 was the last day to buy a new car with a warranty from the dealership.

"The deals are pretty good," he said.

In related news, Italy's Fiat today became the new owner of Chrysler, saving the troubled U.S. automaker from liquidation and placing a new company in the hands of Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne.

Fiat had already declared its intention not to pick up the 789 dealer franchises terminated by Chrysler.

The Associated Press contributed to this story. The reporter can be reached at 583-2432.

(June 10, 2009)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 10, 2009 12:05 PM:

" Once again the Obama administratin, swipes its' outreached claw at successful Republican business owners. This is nothing more than an attempt to make 2012 a shoe in for Obama. He feels if he redistributes the wealth of the Republicans to the Democrats his victory is a done deal. Don't believe it, do some research and see how many auto dealerships owned and operated by Democrats were closed in this latest round of Obamanomics. "

Alihandero wrote on Jun 10, 2009 5:05 PM:

" Obama's new GM Chairman, Edward E. Whitacre Jr., declares: 'I don't know anything about cars' . . . He did build, however, AT&T Inc. into the biggest U.S. provider of telephone service over a 43-year-career.

We all know how everyone loves the phone company for it's 'outstanding ' service model and price gouging add-on monthly charges - and that's just for the land lines! Read your cell phone bill closely and I guarantee you will have a heart attack.

Change we all can believe in, Folks? "

Deb wrote on Jun 10, 2009 6:43 PM:

" These guys - the auto companies were in trouble long before Obama - their only option would be complete bankruptcy - think about what that would have done... "

White5000 wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:04 AM:

" You can't blame the Auto Industry's years of failures and lack of innovation on the Obama admin. It took this recession to finally force them toward some kind of positive change. I'm looking forward to a better US auto industry. "

ashley wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:21 AM:

" I am getting so stinkin worn out listening to republicans who have been running this country into the ground for the past 8 years while they made money hand over fist at the expense of the average american, blame this president for the current financial crisis when he has been in office less than 6 months! How could you expect Obama to fix in 6 months what it took Bush 8 years to create!! geez shut up already and chill, give the guy a REAL chance.
And as for the dealership being gone, that really sucks but maybe they'll bring in Subaru or some other product that we have to drive out of the area to buy. "

manuel wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:53 AM:

" Watchdog fred and Alihandero like good republicans blame president Obama when ever a business fails, Liberty Chrysler failed own their own, with out the help of Obama, its like any other business, if you cant treat the people right, you are like gone "

Alihandero wrote on Jun 11, 2009 4:11 PM:

" I don't recall speaking to you, manolo, but now that you injected your 2 'sence' here, a question:

How do you KNOW that Liberty failed all on it's own?

Did you buy a car there?

You said "if you cant treat the people right," so are you slandering that dealership by saying they didn't treat people right?

I made purchases there, used the service department, and was treated with 100% excellent service by everyone.

Facts are facts, manuel; you should stick with them. "

couchlady wrote on Jun 11, 2009 5:42 PM:

" I, for one, am sorry to see this local business go. I own two Chrysler cars and will now have to travel to Visalia or Dinuba to get them serviced. While we can blame everyone under the sun, this closure does effect innocent people who had no say whatsoever in the decision. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:40 PM:

" To: manuel wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:53 AM:

Liberty didn't fail, they had their franchize ripped out from under them like a throw rug, made in North Korea.

The owner of Liberty owns all of the "Selma Auto Mall" and is thriving. Not to worry Manuel, have you ever purchased from them or are you listening to the voices again?

If you read all the newspaper instead of prowling the blog, you would know he is considering bringing one of his other franchises to Hanford. Possibly Honda, Mazda or both. People work so hard, to bring you the news and you avoid it like the plague.

Also, I think your comments are paramount to kicking someone when they are down. They will also remain in business selling used cars. Do you want a monopoly on new car sales between Jon Keller and Valley Toyota? I for one would like some competition to remain in Hanford in the new car industry.

If Chrysler is stupid enough to put all their eggs in fewer baskets with less exposure, that is on them. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:48 PM:

" To: manuel wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:53 AM:

Obama's Car Csar, is approaching this like "Gates" on our missile defense system. While North Korea is expanding their ballistic missile capability and sharing the information with Iran, we are reducing our missile defense system projects and budget for same.

If anything, if Chrysler really wants to compete they will eventually find that if they want loyal customers, they can't be shuttering doors to their businesses. I remember when Dodge, Chrysler, Plymouth had the majority of the lease and truck business in this community. In fact Kings Tulare Tallow Works, would not be caught with anything but a Dodge in their fleet, at one time. I recall when I was in the Navy Dodges/Chryslers made up quite a few of their fleet. I remember when the California Highway Patrol used nothing but Dodge Patrol Vehicles and Dodge Pick Ups in their fleet. It isn't the local dealers fault all that business went away, it is bid on through the factory reps, not locally. Furthermore, how will the warranties really be handled, when Chrysler doesn't have to buy back inventory? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 11, 2009 9:12 PM:

" To: ashley wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:21 AM

Funny, I don't remember Gottschalk's, Mervyn's, many of the bank and loan associations failing during the entire eight years of Bush. There has been more decay of honest sound businesses since Obama took the reins than in the past twenty years of Presidents, most Republican. I don't every recall Bush telling GM to fire its' CEO, I don't recall Chrysler shuttering doors to its' dealerships. I don't recall a mall so empty, since the failing of the last Hanford Mall. I don't remember a Downtown Association and its' business owners' clinging to every customer like their lives depended upon it. If you can't see the difference in administrations, perhaps you haven't seen enough administrations, to see and know the difference.
Furthermore, I don't think we've began to see the half of it. The Federal Government, continues to ignore the water problems in this very valley, in preference to the tree hugging and smelt loving environemtalist. We are going to continue to worry so much about the wildlife, that man/woman will become extinct because of it. "

getreal wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:22 AM:

" Gee, Fred... you can remember Dodge and Chrysler being worth owning all those years back, but you can't remember that Mervyn's closed in December - before Obama took office? Do you remember Circuit City closing before Obama took office, or is that in the un-selective portion of your memory?

Can you also not remember the warnings about buying gift cards for Christmas gifts because several retailers and restaurant chains were teetering in the edge? When did Obama take over?

Ashley is right - to an extent. She's right when she says Republicans are laying everything at the feet of Obama, crying that he hasn't fixed everything. But when it comes to some of you guys here, she may not know that you just like to complain. Before Obama, your targets were the schools, City Council, KC Board of Supervisors, all state politicians, Hanford PD, KC Sheriff etc.

Sorry to be so blunt, but that's all you guys do here - complain. Why not get involved and run for office? That way, you can channel some of your negative energy into something positive while actually learning something about the target(s) of your complaints. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 12, 2009 9:04 AM:

" It seems to me as an observer of this Auto Industry fiasco, that Ford was the brightest of the big three. Not taking money from the government, thereby forgoing all these restrictions, forced closures of their dealers across the nation. I think when this economy turns around, and someday it will turn around, Ford will be in the best position for growth and longevity of all American Auto Dealers. In a time, that the cry to buy american has never been louder and more sincere, GM and Chrysler are shuttering their doors. By order of the Obama administration. In all my years in the wholesale business, I never saw a company get bigger by shrinking! Even I say trim the fat, but when you require your customers to drive 20 or 40 miles for warranty service or even normal service, oil changes and the like, you have inconvienenced your customer base. That doesn't make for loyal gonna by a Chrysler or GM product again. Had Jon Keller, not been a visionary and expanded when he did. He may not have had the volume in sales to keep his dealership? "

manuel wrote on Jun 12, 2009 1:51 PM:

" Getreal I sure injoyed reading your comments, best reading i done in a long time, but sad but true,some people have blinders and cant see the damage bush did, so no matter what business shuts down even if it was before obama, a good republican will find a way to blame the one who is trying to get the country out of the mess we are in "

Deb wrote on Jun 12, 2009 2:16 PM:

" Watchdog and the tribe would have you believe that all the failures were instantaneous... Kind of like spontaneous combustion - at the mere fact that Obama took the oath of office. "

Alihandero wrote on Jun 12, 2009 3:03 PM:

" Wow, Watchdog,

Now when the most liberal and progressive 'Deb' rejoinders with her powerful empathetic statements we have apparently hit a raw nerve.

I don't recall anyone here blaming Obama for the things he did or didn't do prior to entering office.

When one looks at what he has been forcing on the American people ever since taking the oath of office, well, that bears the highest form of scrutiny. For us and our children.

Unless one's 'tribe' includes 'Deb' in its roster, that is.

...The soon to be disbanded PONTIAC clan, perhaps? "

Big John wrote on Jun 12, 2009 3:41 PM:

" WDF,

I encourage you to demonstrate more balance in your comments. The occasional good points you make are being far out shadowed by your numerous posts blaming everything on Obama.

You’re making the rest of us Republicans look bad.

-Big John "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 12, 2009 5:53 PM:

" To: Big John wrote on Jun 12, 2009 3:41 PM:

" WDF,

I encourage you to demonstrate more balance in your comments. The occasional good points you make are being far out shadowed by your numerous posts blaming everything on Obama.

You’re making the rest of us Republicans look bad.

-Big John "

First and foremost, I have never said that I am a spokesman for the Republican Party. Secondly, as I've described in other forums on the blog. I am entitled to state my opinion. Just like all the ranking deomocrats, like dandre' dose, Scott Tucker et al did during the last year of George W's service to this great nation. What, you and them can't stand it when a Republican minded person, voices their opinion in a Public forum?
Do you really think Obama is doing such a bang up job, I accept him as president, but I don't have to like it. No more than you or the afforementioned like Bush evidently. When the strikes begin anew on our soil, perhaps people will wake up and smell the roses instead of drinking obamaide. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 12, 2009 6:01 PM:

" To: Deb wrote on Jun 12, 2009 2:16 PM:

" Watchdog and the tribe would have you believe that all the failures were instantaneous... Kind of like spontaneous combustion - at the mere fact that Obama took the oath of office. "

No Deb, it took him at least a week to start messing things up. Putting CEO's out that had a successful track record, for several years prior to the seating of Sir Obama. He's bailed out everyone but the American taxpayer who really needs the relief. He continues to esculate the national debt with his ideology of how the auto and banking industry should be ran. He has more Czar's than Russia did prior to 1917. The Government under Obama, is becoming so top heavy, it is taking the form of a spinning top. We all know what happens when you let go of the string on a top. It spins for awhile and then goes completely out of control and falls over. Not a bad comparison to what is happening in our administration called the Executive Branch of Government. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 12, 2009 6:13 PM:

" To: Deb wrote on Jun 12, 2009 2:16 PM:
and Big John,

If you check the latest polls for Obama 34% disapprove, (according to Gallup), of the job he is doing? 62% are disappointed with the direction the nation is taking. 16% of the people who voted for Obama now say they wish there were more Republicans in Congress to balance Obama's power. That is his own voters, saying this in the 6th month of his term. Both the Senate and the Congress voted down the closing of Guantanamo and he persists in keeping his campaign promise. Do you know what that is gonna do to 100% of the democrats, who formerly supported him. They will be forced to switch sides and vote with Republicans. To teach Obama, the job isn't a one man job. When that happens the honeymoon is over, and you can watch Obama's wheel of change will become useless, without ball bearings to support it's path. Then you will see a lame duck President unsupported by his own party. If I'm wrong Big John it is coffee on me at Denny's. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 13, 2009 12:05 AM:

" No wonder 40% of Republicans don't trust Republicans.......The Incredible Shrinking Party....except for Rush

Sheperd Smith COME ON DOWN! "

panzer wrote on Jun 13, 2009 10:41 AM:

" Its not a shrinking party. We are not going anywhere, like it or not. Obama is closing down this country while you sit back and defend him. "

boyce wrote on Jun 13, 2009 12:43 PM:

" It's annoying that Chrysler has removed it's franchise from Liberty. I now have to travel out of the county to get a big service or (hopefully) warranty work.

It's my understanding that they did so because it was (one of many) a under performing dealership. That to me means they can't compete with Ford/Nissan/Honda. I do find that surprising seeing as they are the only Chrysler dealership in the county. Someone must be buying Dodge here, there are plenty of them on the roads. Maybe the deals were better elsewhere?

So, to make the Chrysler business more competive they have decided to separate the wheat from the chaff. Seems a very Republican attitude to me, and quite the right thing to do. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 13, 2009 2:40 PM:

" To: panzer wrote on Jun 13, 2009 10:41 AM:

Like it or not this is a large agricultural community, like Dwight Nelson says in the article above. The Ag community doesn't have the supply of water it needs. One thing about Ag Business in bumper crop years they purchase big ticket items, in desperate drought years they don't purchase much of anything. We've had some unsuccessful harvests in the past few years and that explains the slump in automobile sales, the closing of at least Mervyn's if not Gottschalk's as well.
Will this change, yes it will, in driving past the lot yesterday I spotted Suzuki Advertisements from the former Liberty Chrysler lot. He has mentioned in this article of bringing Honda and/or Mazda to the area.
So all Chrysler has done is to slit its' own throat, by closing down Liberty Chryslers' Franchize. Loyal customers to that property, will continue to give Dwight Nelson, first shot at their business. I think that the more competition that we can bring to Hanford, the better deals you will see on American and Foreign Automobiles. So now a drive for the warranty/trade? "

kermit the frog wrote on Jun 13, 2009 2:59 PM:

" If a business does not provide a product customers want to buy, they might just fail. Chryslers depreciate faster than anything. Their quality is the pits. I like my Nissans, Hondas, and Toyotas because they last, and little things don't break all the time. Resale value is superior and people trust them. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 13, 2009 3:01 PM:

" Hey fred,you were saying the 'honeymoon is over', the day Obama got elected.
and panzer, what was it you did to stop the 'illegal war' and gutting of our economy that happened while Karl Rove was illegally using the DOJ to create the 'permanent majority'.
Are you STILL gonna defend the last 8 years that have been REPUDIATED by:
RNC Chair Michael 'Our Bad' Steel, Geo 'wallSt got Drunk' Bush and the rest of the GOP leadership that is scrambling to get rid of the 'stench' that has been the 'Neo-Con Nightmare'.
Republican poll numbers rival Ross Perot's 19% and 40% of those Republicans don't 'trust' the Republican Party.
Voters under 30 are registered Democrat over Republican at numbers not seen in decades.
God Bless EVOLUTION.... "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 13, 2009 7:10 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 13, 2009 3:01 PM:

Well dandre' that leaves a whopping 84% of you who still support Obamaaide and his bag of tricks. As for Bush, he is history dandre' Obama is still messing things up for all of us. Don't believe it take a drive to the Westside of the Valley where farmers have dry mouth disease. Wait until your next registration fee arrives from Arny. You think everything is so stinking great in this country because a first time loser, won the voting fraud game. He learned well in Illinois politics and if you notice brought the whole gosh darn crew with him. Perhaps for payback for stealing the election. When the final story is written on ACORN and the Obamaaide connection, you will be looking for buttermilk, the taste in your mouth will be so bad. But even that won't wash away the corruption, deciet, discredit he will have brought to this nation at home and abroad. Sometimes, I think he is a hired spokesman for Mahmud Ahmadi-Nejad himself, or Kim Il-sung of North Korea. They hate america too. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 13, 2009 9:28 PM:

" Why do Republican Conservatives hate America.
‘We the People’ have built the strongest Country in the history of the World.
READ a History book, Americans have influenced the whole planet because ‘We’ are the PERFECT human beings- IMPERFECT.
I am sick and tired of the 'right' accusing LIBERALS of 'blaming America first' when the ‘right’s’ WHOLE 'ideology' is BUILT on blaming America 'first' for anything Government (We the People) touches.
they insult..
Our Military, Our Civil Servants, Our Teachers, Our Firefighters, Our Law-enforcers, Our Judicial System, Our Prison system, etc., etc.
GET IT STRAIGHT- if your mantra is ‘Government (We the People) is/are BAD, then YOU would and have governed BAD.....and HISTORY proves it, that's why your 'ex-presidents' NEED 'legacy projects' to 'clean up the TRUTH'.
CASE IN POINT: The ‘right’ was mesmerized for 8 years by a Clinton Administration and the ‘right’s’ favorite subject, ‘sex’. All the while, the ‘Conservative Big Business’ lobbyists were WRITING the legislation that would be the ‘icing on the cake’ with ‘W’s tax-breaks’ being the ‘candle’ and the ‘War on Terror’ the ‘stick of dynamite’ used to light the ‘candle’ that would ‘explode’ in the ‘face’ of WE THE PEOPLE! "

Dandre wrote on Jun 13, 2009 9:32 PM:

" LIBERALS had a problem with Clinton, he ‘governed’ like a ‘republican’, i.e. ‘Don’t ask don’t tell’, Marriage Protection, BANK DE-REGULATION. He was a ‘politician’ and Rogue Scholar, FROM THE NECK UP! but the ‘right’ couldn’t break their ‘fixation’ to notice’ the CURSE of ‘ Friedman/Ayn Ran’, 1 step closer to ‘doubling down’ the ‘war’ economy President Eisenhower warned of.
If you know more about Monica’s dress than you do about the legislation that turned our Banks into Casinos, the ‘rightwing conspiarcy’ works, if you are more upset about the ‘Death Tax’ than the ‘tax-burdens’ put on working people and ‘small business’ by the Reagan Administration, the Heritage Foundation’s ‘legacy’ campaign worked…..on you.
The ‘neo-con’ game plan needed ‘another Pearl Harbor’, quoted from the ‘Project for a New American Century, a ‘rightwing’ conservative ‘think tank’and they got it.
They ‘claim’ as principle ‘small government’ and ‘limited spending’, when? They’ve had their chance, why, are all those ‘principles’ still sitting on the ‘table’ gathering cobwebs, they had the majorities to ‘enforce’ their solutions? but, Because those issues used as a ‘wedge’ outweighs their solution. REpublicans ‘RE-brand’ and are ‘RE-born’, but, THANK GOD, the Truth will LIBerate you… "

Dandre wrote on Jun 13, 2009 9:33 PM:

" The arguments on both sides of this is ‘greed’. The ‘greed’ of welfare ‘fraud’ against the ‘greed’ of a ‘crony-driven war economy’. The Liberals contend that the ‘cost’ of the greed demonstrated by welfare, while a problem, is miniscule compared to Corporate ‘welfare’ and ‘cronyism’ that has redistributed the wealth of the Middle Class’s 401k’s into the Corporate Hedge-fund Class that requires proof of millions in disposable money, in other words, a gambling stake, to even get in the door. NO MIDDLE CLASS ALLOWED!
King Co’s welfare numbers were quoted at $1.5million a month and that is spread over several hundred recipients. Let’s be bold, 10% is fraudualant, that’s $150,000 for the month with the costs of close to that to ‘track it down’ and ‘retrieve it’. Not to mention the kids that you can’t exactly treat as ‘criminal accomplices’.
That’s why the Liberal solution is to cut welfare for the top before you jepordize children and BECAUSE of this LIBERALS are dangerous?? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 14, 2009 8:44 AM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 13, 2009 9:33 PM:

Well my friend those were the most conservative estimates, I've heard concerning welfare fraud. Yet you think being bold is to say 10%, when the numbers are probably closer to 40% to 50%.

Here are some figures, I found: "The fraud was not of a minor nature nor did it reflect small or incidental unreported income. The average will ful fraud overpayment was $2,575. While the largest was nearly $56,000".

So once again, your research and numbers are not correct. "A" Typical of the Liberal checks and balances. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, you baffle them with bull _ _ _ _! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 14, 2009 2:46 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 13, 2009 9:28 PM:

Are you serious, George W. has made zero comment about the Obamination, of this country. Your Obamaide, must be stronger and pack more of a punch than suspected? Let's reach just a leetle farthe back to the Palestinian Lover "Jimmy Carter". The man who still doesn't understand he doesn't represent anything, and has no ability to write treaties and hasn't for some years now. He needs to put his hammer back in his hand build houses for the needy and stay out of the politics abroad. Even as a Republican, I know that can hurt Obama, more than anything Chenney might say.

Your convaluted vision of the past fifty years and what Democrats have done for this country, are so lopsided if you were on a teeter totter you'd have both feet touching the ground, as you speak. Democrats have traditionally gotten us in to bigger more costly wars dollar for dollar, than any Republican ever has in the history of this country.
President Harry S. Truman ended the war with Japan only to declare war on North Korea later. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 14, 2009 4:02 PM:

" half of the welfare is 'fraudulant'? and it happens right in front of your face and YOU let it happen?
I shop just like all you con's but....how come I don't see all this 'fraud' you are talking about.
BUT you see it and don't do anything about it?
Where are you getting your #'s fred?
What? you were in line behind 4 welfare queens last week and according to you 2 were cheating?
We are all 1 major illness away from 'bankruptcy', but, hey, make sure we don't 'punish' the rich!!!
....a camel thru the eye of a needle has more chance.....
Fred, read the book Wild Justice, it documents how even rats have empathy for their fellow rats.
'RATS', fred, have a MORE empathetic 'social structure' than 'conservative republicans',
Animal groups that displayed the 'traits' being displayed by the present day Republican went extinct.
Its not nice to fool with Mother Nature! "

X111 wrote on Jun 15, 2009 10:23 AM:

" To WDF:

Check out this website:

http://www.lafn.org/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html

I'm sure it'll blow your mind. It shows data from the Bureau of the Public Debt with the United States Department of the Treasury, showing just how much the National debt has increased and decreased throughout the reign of different presidents. Look! Your good friend George Dubya set some new records! And look, so do all the other Republic presidents leading back to Reagan. Guess you better check your sources, because nuggets like this: "Democrats have traditionally gotten us in to bigger more costly wars dollar for dollar, than any Republican ever has in the history", in light of the facts, are simply priceless. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 15, 2009 11:24 AM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 14, 2009 4:02 PM:

I have as much control over Welfare, as you did over Iraq and Afghanistan, dandy dandre'. Only thing is I think it is the will of the people to let me win my battle. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 15, 2009 1:59 PM:

" To: X111 wrote on Jun 15, 2009 10:23 AM:

I guess your problem was understanding the term dollar for dollar? That means compare times of war during Roosevelt, Truman and what they could buy with dollars spent by Republicans during a time of war. Not only in dollars but read ahead and see if you now understand my point. This war was all Democrat lead from start to finish.

"World War II was the mightiest struggle humankind has ever seen. It killed more people, cost more money, damaged more property, affected more people, and caused more far-reaching changes in nearly every country than any other war in history. The number of people killed, wounded, or missing between September 1939 and September 1945 can never be calculated, but it is estimated that more than 55 million people perished".

If they aren't teaching history in history class any longer, what are they teaching, liberal view points?
President Woodrow Wilson, also a Democrat was in charge during WWI. Who by the way was replaced by Warren G. Harding a Republican. So was Lyndon B. Johnson, School is out for today. "

Alihandero wrote on Jun 15, 2009 3:44 PM:

" In an attempt to sound credible, "X111" sends us to an amateur-looking Los Angeles free internet access site where unnamed liberal extremists take questionable data and mold it to attack conservatives.

I noticed at least two attacks on my firewall so the site might not be safe.

Not only did I find data inaccurate and misleading, I found it part of a chain-scheme to clog up our emails with unwanted attachments:

"Please copy this Chart or download one of the versions below and put it up on your website or print out copies and pass them around! Email copies to your friends! Or best, get together with your friends and put a copy of this chart in an ad in your local newspaper! You don't have to attribute it to anyone, the important thing is to show every American how the Republicans are bankrupting America (while cutting every program they can get away with) and passing their debts to your children and grandchildren, and their children and grandchildren!
...Not that any of the Press, mostly owned by Republicans and right-wing foreigners, will report it."

Thanks, "X111" "

Dandre wrote on Jun 15, 2009 4:58 PM:

" Hey X111, I have heard those stats but what a great chart...
As each 'Talking Point' and as a 'Talking Point' I am talking about the 'bumper sticker' 'sound bites', developed by the Frank Luntz's and distributed by Grover Norquist's 'propaganda' breakfast every Wednesday. as each of these is debunked and ends up a 'steaming pile', I can't help but think of the 'Boy that Cried Wolf' and the lesson of credibility.....40% of Republicans don't trust their party, the main reason international investors froze-up was the 'foreign bankers' quit trusting American bankers because American bankers didn't trust each other! But How do you get THAT on a 'bumper sticker'? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 15, 2009 6:25 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 15, 2009 4:58 PM:

Your "Dictator", won't even listen to his own Democratic Congress and the popular vote of the Senate. They say no to closing Guantanimo and he says; "Damn the torpedoe's full speed ahead". It is the most wreckless behavior I've ever seen exhibited. He says we will meet, we will discuss, we will make concessions, when, when it suits him and no other time. You talk about arrogant, dogmatic, Bush didn't exhibit such superior behavior and he had a right to for keeping this country free from attack for seven of his eight years in office. People didn't re-elect him, because they lost confidence in him. Joe Biden, has already convinced himself of an eight year tour of duty as VP and then in 2016, he wants to run for the big boy's position. That man is dreaming big time, Obama and Biden can go to _ _ _ _ in 2012. They will not be re-elected to office, in this country or any other. Why has Obama made two trips to the Middle East and never set foot in Isreal? "

manuel wrote on Jun 15, 2009 6:39 PM:

" Alihandero watchdog get your facts right, when the japanese bombed pearl harbor, they must of been democrats for they started the war with america not roosevelt "

Dandre wrote on Jun 15, 2009 6:43 PM:

" What's the matter ali, got that 'too much information' migrane?
You did everything but a 'half- gainer' to discredit information that comes from the

Department of Public Debt, US Treasury

where is your answer? where is your data….that’s what I thou..no that’s what I knew
Once again, we are back to having to point out the difference between 'hyperbolic hysteria' that you and your party feed off and reality
That's why this 'tea bag bs is just that .....
you are a bunch of 'alcoholics' that want the rest of US to come to your 'kegger', so you can 'justify' the LAST 8 YEARS that you and wallstreet were 'drunk' and got ‘busted’, according to Geo W! "

couchlady wrote on Jun 16, 2009 6:37 AM:

" Again, I think you are all missing the point..Politicians aren't to blame for this. Let's remember that Chrysler has had to be bailed out before in the 80's. All of the car makers need to make cars that people need and want. That being said, Liberty did nothing to warrant this closure. They weren't behind with Chrysler and they were selling cars. Now, those of us who own Chrysler products have to travel out of the area to get our cars repaired by an authorized dealer. This isn't a matter of blaming the politicians, but making sure that a local business, that provided a needed service, is around to provide that service. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 16, 2009 9:28 AM:

" To: manuel wrote on Jun 15, 2009 6:39 PM:

Well manuel, there are those who say Roosevelt knew few well what was coming in Hawaii and didn't pass the information along to his commanders there. Roosevelt wanted to be involved in WWII, he just needed a reason people would buy in to. We were already invovled in the buildup in arms in Europe and had been for quite some time.

Peraonally after hearing Roosevelt, prior to his death had not notified his Second in Command, of the Nuclear Bomb attack, planned on Japan. He probably did keep much from the people of this country in the entire war effort. He also knew that his legacy was doomed to condimnation. If he risked 1 million more american soldiers, airmen and marines in the invasion of Japan. Hence the first atomic bombs were used to end the war with Japan. What is not to know about our history, it doesn't matter that he Roosevelt was attacked on our soil. You all condemmed Bush, for his retaliation on Alqaeda, for their involvement in 9/11, very much on our soil. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 16, 2009 10:57 AM:

" The amazing facts surrounding the war with Iraq to me, are the following:

The majority of Democrats supported the war.
The majority of Democrats supported the war on terror against Alqaeda.
The majority of Democrats later said that Alqaeda was not in Iraq?
The majority of Democrats didn't suppor the surge in Iraq?
The majority of Democrats agreed Alqaeda was in Iraq at some time.
Did the Alqaeda come to Iraq just to do battle against George W's war machine?
If So didn't George W. lay out the best plan to attracked and defeat Alqaeda of any one, who put him down for doing so?
If Alqaeda was not in Iraq, then George W. led them there like the pied piper and defeated them?
For that you voted him the worst President and Commander In Chief in history, who is confused about what, my fellow americans?

There are those of you who continue to thwart the best laid plan of attack against Alqaeda to date. Now I suppose that the Taliban are really Alqaeda, being hunted by US soldiers and marines?

If Alqaeda didn't attack us who did? "

Fed up wrote on Jun 16, 2009 12:37 PM:

" What ticks me off is we constantly hear, “give Obama a chance, he inherited the economy, he needs more time to fix it.” What everyone forgets is Obama KNEW exactly what he was getting into, he wanted the job, and in fact he insisted he was the right person for the job to fix everything. So don’t tell me he inherited the horrible situation we are in, he wanted it. We as U.S. citizens need to put into check every elected official, whatever the party affiliation. I know I failed there when it came to Bush, but, God helping me, I won’t let any elected official off that easy next time. "

manuel wrote on Jun 17, 2009 9:21 AM:

" Whatchdog You mention that a few knew that Roosevelt had knowledge of what was going to happen in Pearl Harbor, how could you even think that our president would let millions of our people die just to get our nation involved in a war with japan, is this your reason of why bush started a war with Irag, what did Irag have to do with 911 "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 17, 2009 11:47 AM:

" To: manuel wrote on Jun 17, 2009 9:21 AM

Well I will presume you must be too young to know, that Roosevelt met with Sir Winston Churchill on many occassions and made promises to enter into the WWII War conflict with more than machinery, guns and ammunition supplies. They met secretly at sea on various ships at one such meeting Stalin was also in attendance. Roosevelt promised america would be involved in the entire war effort supplying planes, pilots, soldiers and armament which had not happened to that point.I offer the following comment, you be the judge readership:

"On the face of it, there's a ring of truth to the rumor. The American military had broken some Japanese codes, and had received prior warning of an attack, both from notes they intercepted as well as notes the British cracked and passed on. Given that Marshall warned Pacific army commanders "the United States desires that Japan commits the first overt act," how hard is it to believe that Roosevelt allowed the surprise attack to occur in order to bring a vocally isolationist Congress and public into supporting war with Japan"? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 17, 2009 11:54 AM:

" To: manuel wrote on Jun 17, 2009 9:21 AM

I'll tell you another little reason I believe that Pearl Harbor was known in advance. Not a single Aircraft Carrier was inport docked at Pearl, just prior to or during the attack. Why were the most valuable assets in the battle of Japan, spared? Why did Admiral Halsey set sail and leave Honolulu days before the attack?

Why didn't Japan continue to attack or invade the Hawaiian Islands? Because they didn't know where the Carrier Force was and what it was doing at the time, that is why.

World War II has proven down through history to be the most expensive both monetarily and in life and limb. Ironicly WWI was advertised as the war to end all wars.

Do you think John F. Kennedy was honest with the american people, when he allowed the Bay of Pigs to occur and didn't give those freedom fighters, the air support and ground troops, they thought and were promised they would get? Kennedy allowed those men to be slaughtered, hoping they would be enough to do in Castro. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 17, 2009 12:05 PM:

" To: manuel wrote on Jun 17, 2009 9:21 AM

If the Bay of Pigs doesn't open your eyes, then read about the failed attempt of President Jimmy Carter, to rescue hostages of our own embassy in Tehran Iran. Democrats are not the most effective Commander's In Chief, as history has proven.

Truman recalled Omar Bradley from the Korean Conflict because he was too successful and Truman felt Bradley would run for President and beat him by a landslide. Instead it was General Dwight D. Eisenhower who returned from Europe and did exactly that, he clobbered Truman in the election.

Bradley never had any inclination to become a Politician, he felt his position as a General gave him more prestige.

Research is available all you have to do is look for it, manuel! "

Dandre wrote on Jun 18, 2009 11:14 AM:

" Manuel,,,WW2 answer, because FDR is a LIBERAL GIANT that people like fred can't shake FDR's 'shadow' , that's the scowl on ann 'the man' coulters face, that's the 'shreek' in 'half sentence' hannity's voice, that's the inferiority complex in the oxycoden-rush-with ED.
and the 'Bay of Pigs' was compromised by someone at CIA, initials GHWB.
The research is available to anyone smart enough to find it.... "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 18, 2009 12:26 PM:

" To: Dandre wrote on Jun 18, 2009 11:14 AM:

So really, now was it the admiration of FDR the cheater and adulterer, FDR the program developer or FDR the man who got us into WWII when we were an antiwar country? Which of those men did you admire, perhaps we could read Eleanor's memoirs and get a clue? The one's that speak of her being utilized for foreign policy and trips abroad, as he became an invalid in a wheel chair. He even deceived the general public with that by giving addresses behind a desk that would conceal his wheel chair. What was his archaic fear people would think him less a man? Certainly people weren't so small minded and adored him to a point that wouldn't matter, if you listen to the Democrats.
All FDR's administration proved is every administration is not perfect, every idea isn't a good one and every one in the Democratic Party can be fooled into believing there is a Messaih and he truly existed. All a bunch of poppycock but your party and its' members bought it hook line and sinker. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 18, 2009 12:35 PM:

" How much more proof as a nation do we need to accept Liberals are writing the history and liberals are teaching the history to our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren? "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Jun 18, 2009 12:35 PM:

" to Dandre, go back to your books, Bush didn't become CIA director until about 12 years later.

Please again I ask you to stick to facts, just like you and the liberals always ask of us. I stick to the facts, and call out anybody that posts falsehoods. "

LuvBugzMoM wrote on Jun 18, 2009 5:05 PM:

" There really isn't one person to blame about the downfall of the auto industry~Pretty much everyone is to blame, not just the owners but the sales staff as well~
Let me be the 1st to say that I never sold a car in my life & no I'm not aware of the way things work~
The Chrysler Franchise will be a great lose to our community~Looking at not just Chrysler but other dealers as well pricing is a BIG problem which contributed to the failure of the business~
So in general not just one person is to blame on the failure of the automotive industry, its everyone~When shopping for a car & the pricing exceeds way over what the car should be valued at than we as consumers have no choice but to go to the next dealership & make that purchase which in turn takes away money from our local dealership contributing to their downfall. So with that being said, go ahead Watch Dog Fred & give me your best rebutal. "

Dandre wrote on Jun 18, 2009 6:34 PM:

" Hey nhg... that's when he became Director, when Kennedy was assassinated, some say, that is a picture of him outside the 'book depository'.
and the theory behind the movie 'The Good Sheperd' was that the CIA sold out JFK at the Bay of Pigs and some say, Bush Sr was the guy....the info is out there, not my problem you can't find it.... "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jun 18, 2009 6:50 PM:

" To: LuvBugzMoM wrote on Jun 18, 2009 5:05 PM

You will not get an argument from me, I tried to deal with every dealer in town when I bought my last automobile. It was not new it was a used car, I found a pickup on one of the lots in town, called the Sales Manager on Friday afternoon. Told him I would like to make an offer on a pickup, gave him my offer a week later on a Friday he called said, the owner had accepted my offer. I told him I would be in Saturday morning to pay him cash, he said; Saturday, I don't work on Saturday's. That Saturday morning, my wife and I drove to Fresno saw an SUV we both liked, I paid cash for it $15,000.00 so I wasn't looking at chump change used cars. Besides, my dad sold cars for a living and he worked six days a week. "

LuvBugzMoM wrote on Jun 19, 2009 12:13 AM:

" Well thank you Watch Dog Fred you know how I feel than, My car that we just bough is a 2009 Honda Civic and was paid for full cash. It's sad to say but I had to leave the local Chrysler dealer here to get a better buy, so it was a lose they took because they wouldn't go down on prices.
But once again thank you for understanding where I was coming from. "

Alihandero wrote on Jun 25, 2009 4:04 PM:

" Bummer for the Hanford Police Dept.

The will have to drive to Visalia/Tulare or Fresno to get their new Chargers serviced under warranty. "

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