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City seeks participation in downtown study:
Officials say public comment key to forming workable vision

By Eiji Yamashita
eyamashita@HanfordSentinel.com

What would you like to see developed on the east side of downtown Hanford?

A hotel? A movie theater? Or something similar to Courthouse Square? How about used car dealerships?

Hanford officials are prepared to hear any possible ideas from residents as they begin a planning process to form a comprehensive vision for the area, which generally surrounds East Seventh Street between Harris Street and 10th Avenue.

The area has historically been "underutilized," they say, and needs to be revitalized.

But with what?

That's an answer they hope to find at the end of a four-month steering committee process that would be driven by participation and comment from residents, business owners and property owners in and around east downtown.

City officials are seeking applicants to fill 12 at-large seats on the 18-member planning body.

"The central component of this study is public participation," said Hanford Deputy City Manager Hilary Straus. "This is the necessary step in the process where we bring everybody together, all the business and property owners, and say, 'We need your voice, and we need you to wear planners' hats and work with us to develop some land-use alternatives.'"

The city is moving fast on the process.

The application deadline is Aug. 12. So far, 1,500 property owners and businesses in the project area have been invited, Straus said.

Earlier this month, the City Council hired consultant M.W. Steele to facilitate the planning. Establishing the steering committee is the first order of business in the process.

As part of the $75,000 contract, Steele will manage all six steering committee and public meetings as well as analyze the opportunities and constraints within the downtown business district and conduct a market-based assessment of land-use options by forming a developers' panel.

City Manager Gary Misenhimer said the developers' panel is also important because it will act as a sounding board for the steering committee's visioning process.

"We have some vacant properties where the car lots were. We could plot something and build something whether it be a hotel or movie theater. What we want to do with this process is to ask ourselves, 'Is that really the right place to put it?" Misenhimer said. "We don't want to put things in a wrong place that's going to be detrimental to the continued growth and improvement in the area. I think this is what the study is going to help us with."

The first steering committee meeting is set for Aug. 29 in the Training Room at City Hall, 319 N. Douty St. The meeting, which would start with a walking tour of downtown east and end with a brainstorming exercise, is open to the public.

City decision-makers said it's a necessary investment to move the city forward, despite rough times.

"Everybody's a little bit concerned about the economic downturn, but we still need to be thinking about the future and planning for the future and see what we can do to develop this particular area," said Mayor David Ayers. "I'm an optimist. I think things are going to get better. I want to make sure all the pieces are in place for that to happen."

City Councilwoman Sue Sorensen reminded that all the developments in Hanford, such as the commercial area on the west side, didn't happen by chance.

"It's a process of establishing vision for the community and taking the time to listen to your community and then put that conversation into action," she said. "It helps tie your community together."

Consultant Mark Steele said Hanford is off to a good start.

"What's here today has been very carefully protected, developed and enhanced. So you have the beginning of something great," he said. "What we're going to do is work with what the community wants to see and what the development industry envisions as being something viable. Our job is to help put all of this together and turn it into something that's got some magic."

The reporter can be reached at 583-2429.

Downtown east planning

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Alihandero wrote on Jul 26, 2009 3:59 PM:

" Wow!

"Our job is to help put all of this together and turn it into something that's got some magic."

Let the hocus pocus-ing begin! "

Alihandero wrote on Jul 26, 2009 4:32 PM:

" First, why not ask (via survey/poll/market analysis) the people who would actually patronize these imaginary businesses or attractions (the paying taxpayers and area customers) this: what things would THEY spend their money on in that part of town?

What possibly do a very few chosen city fathers and officials and far-off developers know what local people actually want?

And as far as city planning and social responsibility is concerned, what has the City Council and Planning Dept. done to repurpose all of the existing abandoned business infrastructure around Hanford?

Do we really want to build more ‘bright ideas' only to add to the city's deserted inventory later on? "

am030487 wrote on Jul 26, 2009 7:50 PM:

" Its a good start from the ctiy to get input of ideas from local residents... We can definetely be creative and make a thriving downtown.. i would suggest,a mid to low rise residential building for elderly or condominiums, with ground floor retail shops, coffee shops, office space, restaurants..also a hotel can be included, the nearby theater can compliment this new area, so definetely no new theater. Also another wild idea is build a multi-level parking garage...Hanford is a small city, but this idea can work, something like a mixed-use urban district. "

ValleyVoter wrote on Jul 27, 2009 11:11 AM:

" I would like to see an area set aside for walking trails, for families, individuals, elderly and disabled. Trails that take them to various parts of downtown, avoiding the need for a car. Trails that have benches for resting, fountains to drink water, and low faucets for doggy watering. As part of these trails, small pond areas to offer aesthetic relief from our flat dry climate.

I would like to see a low cost prices grocery store at the east end of town for those living near there and for the residents of the new apartments below.

Also, I would like to see some of the downtain buildings used for section 8 one bedroom single occupancy apartments for low income, especially elderly and disabled. These would be the core people that would use the sidewalks and trails, to get to the new market and frequent the downtown recreation area that would have a small branch of the Library, a police substation, and small shops. "

transplant wrote on Jul 27, 2009 2:59 PM:

" I noticed that some of the posters are listing ideas of what they'd like to see on the east side. I would suggest that, if you cannot attend the public meetings, you write your comments in a letter and send to the deputy city manager mentioned in the article. I doubt that they will print any of the comments from here, but would include them if you send by mail or even email. The best, of course, would be to attend the meeting and give input. But not everyone can make the meetings, and the next best would be to provide written comments directly to the city. Don't rely on a forum like this and then complain that no one listened. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 28, 2009 4:31 PM:

" To: transplant wrote on Jul 27, 2009 2:59 PM:

That is a big mistake on the part of the representatives of this community.

Look at all that has been gleaned from the conversations in these blogs over the past year and a half?

Information Central is what this forum is all about, if the representatives don't care to fire up a computer even at the library once a week to feel the pulse of the city? Then perhaps they should consider another form of service to the community?

That is more conclusive evidence they do not give a damn about this community or what it wants. The simple fact that more people show up on this forum on any given day, than at the “City Coucil Meetings,” should scream to at least one Councilperson, to come here and listen, read and take some of these ideas and run with them.

(Continued) "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 28, 2009 4:33 PM:

" To: transplant wrote on Jul 27, 2009 2:59 PM:

(Continued)
They are missing an opportunity to reach no telling how many people, simply because some just read and don't take the time to blog doesn’t mean they don’t have an interest in the betterment of the community.

Last year prior to the election there was quite a dialogue between potential candidates and constituents, here on line. As soon as the election was over end of discussion on line.

You yourself complain about people not attending the Council Meetings, so we have just as much right to complain about Councilman not appearing here.

After all, this is the computer age, 90% of us probably pay our bills by computer, anyway our banks hope we do, to cut down on paper waste? Another 85% probably shop via Computer, which probably drives the Mall nuts.

If the City Council were green, they would be reading their news on the computer as well as in the paper.

(Continued) "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 28, 2009 4:35 PM:

" To: transplant wrote on Jul 27, 2009 2:59 PM:

(Continued)
If you want attendance in great numbers, you have to get in line with a scenario like the Hanford Sentinel presented during the candidates meeting last year or gathering such as the T.E.A. party involvement of this year. People aren’t going to shout and holler over any regularly scheduled council meeting.

I don’t favor the one bedroom apartment idea so much in downtown Hanford for the elderly, you are separating them as it is, there is one development north of town and a second east of town where they commune quite well.

You must develop lasting efforts that are going to recruit more people every year something similar to my suggestion of the WYOTECH type centers in industrial arts not only providing affordable repair service to the citizens but also providing professional technicians and mechanics in the automobile and agricultural entities. For those who want this ugly three story garage scenario, even the “tachi palace knew better.”
(Continued) "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 28, 2009 4:37 PM:

" To: transplant wrote on Jul 27, 2009 2:59 PM:

(Continued)

They wanted to display what they have available now, a five star motel, not a-three story parking garage like Table Mountain, City of Visalia and City of Fresno have done. What’s made Hanford such a special community is by being innovative enough not to copy surrounding towns. If you want to be innovative with a parking structure go underground with it, it’s better in inclement weather, easier to keep secure and shut down in emergencies. I’d be very cautious after 9/11 to build up when you can better protect something underground. If a bomb does go off, it is contained in an underground structure, you don’t have to worry about three stories of debris landing on you.
You want suggestions, there, you have some. "

Big John wrote on Jul 28, 2009 11:21 PM:

" I pictured a Goshen Al-Qaeda cell holding a clandestine planning session, wiring car bombs while trying to pick their next terrorist attack target, when a neophyte junior member raises his hand and suggests “We could blow up a parking garage in Hanford California”.

I laughed so hard my side hurt. Truth be told I nearly passed out. Thanks so much for the levity!

-Big John "

transplant wrote on Jul 29, 2009 12:47 PM:

" Fred,

The City staff and Council are looking for ideas from the public, right? So if the Councilmember reads the comments in this and other forums and takes any of it to one of these meetings, doesn't it just look like the Councilmember is bringing forth the ideas? One reason they may not use comments here is the same reason they don't respond to anonymous complaints. Is it REALLY many people who like the idea, or one person who writes in a lot?

However, if someone takes the time to write a letter or email and gives their name, there is a lot more attention paid to it. I'm just suggesting that people who cannot attend the meetings have another way to submit their ideas. As usual, you took it negatively. I certainly don't expect to see you at any meetings, regardless of what you promised prior to the November election. Now all you have are excuses. "

Alihandero wrote on Jul 29, 2009 2:27 PM:

" Big John wrote on Jul 28, 2009 11:21 PM:
" I pictured a Goshen Al-Qaeda cell holding a clandestine planning session, wiring car bombs while trying to pick their next terrorist attack target, when a neophyte junior member raises his hand and suggests “We could blow up a parking garage in Hanford California”.

Yea, but at least they showed up for the meeting just like you command all of us to do.

And may I add this:
What a strange and violent thought, John...I am worried about you now! "

ValleyVoter wrote on Jul 29, 2009 5:33 PM:

" To Transplant:

I do not think it matters whether the councilmember gives credit to others for ideas that put people first instead of developers or a council members' personal $$$ interests. Citizens can choose to be anonymous. That is what you are doing here on this blog. If the City were to put in walking trails and housing for low income, I would not expect my photo to be on the front page of the paper and credit given.

I would be THRILLED if a Councilmember had the smattering of computer savy to read and participate in these blogs.

I know from personal experience that my city council representative will not respond to concerns I have when I have identified myself and left a phone number to hear back. Never happens. They do not care. The one for my district makes no secret of the fact that he does not care what citizen voters think.

Developing the downtown area so that it brings more people to it in healthy ways, innovative ways, is not putting in a movie theatre which Hanford has already, or more baseball/softball parks which Hanford has too many. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 29, 2009 8:19 PM:

" -big john-wrote on Jul 28, 2009 11:21 PM:

Don't tell me, I spent several weeks face to face with the Mayor. Made several suggestions and every time the subject steered toward politics, all of a sudden he had another appointment to make.

He said he didn't mix politics with business, what an attitude? Once again a man who thinks his job is simply Tuesday Night Council Meetings. All he demonstrated to me, is he is as lousy at his day job as his job as Mayor of the City.

That was one on one -big john- I'd hate to think of what appearing at a Council Meeting might be like? Oh and he had my name right in front of him, didn't make a bit of difference. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 29, 2009 8:25 PM:

" To: ValleyVoter wrote on Jul 29, 2009 5:33 PM:

I agree with you Valley Voter, I don't make suggestions for credit. I make them because I think many are original ideas, that no one else has submitted.

I could care if someone took my original thoughts and ran with them, in fact I'd consider it an honor.

That means that I came up with a solution for existing platforms that other people thought was a good idea. That's all the gratitude I'd look for, and I could give a rats patutty who got credit for it.

Think inside the box and how many ways you could utilize it, don't always think of knocking the box down and starting over. "

Armonian wrote on Jul 30, 2009 8:15 AM:

" Leave it alone. I do not think this paid group and city council types can come up with much. After all they are responsible for that snarled up mess along 12th Avenue. That made Hanford cookie cutter for every other town in CA that lost its individuality. "

Carl.Spackler wrote on Jul 30, 2009 8:40 AM:

" Fred, I disagree with your statement about copying other downtowns. Hanford is not that unique. They are like most other central valley towns. They do not have a river, ocean or some other physical feature to build around. So it would be wise to copy the success of other areas. Two that come to mind are Visalia and Paso Robles. What they need to find is that synergy that makes a downtown successful and the place to be. I think it starts with more lighting and a safer environment. Less skanky bars would help. Once you find that synergy, demand for space increases and the large blocks of dead land will get gobbled up and developed. "

Big John wrote on Jul 30, 2009 1:03 PM:

" Watchdog Fred wrote:

“Don't tell me, I spent several weeks face to face with the Mayor … He said he didn't mix politics with business, what an attitude?”

I’m not sure what you think I told you in this blog. I made only one post, and it had nothing to do with your failure to attend council meetings as previously promised.

I believe Councilman Ayers probably told you that he did not support using a medical appointment (office visit) as the venue for discussing politics. This has been his policy since first being elected. Instead, as he regularly does, I also suspect he encouraged you to appear at a scheduled meeting and address the entire council.

I encourage you to do so as well (or at least write a letter). Your voice deserves to be heard in a forum where it might actually facilitate real change.

And to Armonian – decisions will be made with our without community involvement. It is far better for everyone to share their ideas (perhaps without getting what they want) than to continue whining from the sidelines.

-Big John "

transplant wrote on Jul 30, 2009 1:16 PM:

" Valley Voter,

I don't really care who brings forth the ideas or who gets credit for them either. For the last couple of years I have read how the Council never listens to anyone and everything is always done the same. Here's a chance for people to submit their ideas and there are some who are already saying it won't do any good. I see it the same way as an election: if you don't vote you really don't have any basis for complaint. If you submit ideas and they aren't used, you can at least say you tried. If all you do is complain on this forum, it's just hot air.

I believe there are councilmembers who read these comments and some may even pay attention to them. But the committee is more than councilmembers and I'm sure there are members who would like to hear what the general public has to say. What harm is there in giving the process a chance?

I'm sorry your councilmember isn't responsive. But there are ways to get comments/ideas/problems before the whole council and maybe get something done. "

ValleyVoter wrote on Jul 30, 2009 4:50 PM:

" To Transplant:

In most places, it is possible to impact political agendas. Here it is difficult as there is a lack of accountability in government. If the Council reads these blogs, then fine, if not then it does not matter. They already have talked and decided what they want to do.

It is the pattern existing for years. They hired someone to deflect responsibility from themselves for making decisions that financially benefit a few and limit the power of the voters.

At one time, Hanford was in Sunset magazine because of the Dynasty and Courthouse Square. If downtown became family friendly, then once again, it could be seen as a place to stay on the way to: the coast, Yosemite, the Sierras, even without the Dynasty.

Right now, if someone stayed here, what would they get? Local hotels filled with workers put up while they work on projects in the area and make the hotels dirty and not a good environment for families. When it gets dark, what can a family do? No where to go, nothing to do. That can be changed and there is likely grant money available to do it. "

Brewmaster wrote on Jul 30, 2009 4:54 PM:

" Does anyone here know how much money is being allocated for this project? The article indicates that the study alone will cost $75.000. The cost to revitalize the eastern downtown area would be astronomical I'm sure. Also, have any of you got out from behind your keyboards lately and checked out that area of town? East 7th street is the southern border of gangland central which is constantly growing. Check the police blotter folks before you invest a dime in that area! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 30, 2009 5:54 PM:

" To: -big little john- wrong on all counts.

"I believe Councilman Ayers probably told you that he did not support using a medical appointment (office visit) as the venue for discussing politics. This has been his policy since first being elected. Instead, as he regularly does, I also suspect he encouraged you to appear at a scheduled meeting and address the entire council."

Wrong on all counts, does the word HIPPA come to mind? I think we've had this discussion before. I mentioned nothing about medical in my post.

Which did not give you permission to mention anything about what the circumstances of our meeting involved. I do believe that is a violation.

Perhaps you are a little too close to the Mayor and the Council Members to be objective with your opinions anyway. Could it be you are required to be at the City Council Meetings and that is why you really appear?

You've dictated going to everyone you blog to, if they wanted to go, I am sure they could find their way, you do every time. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 30, 2009 6:12 PM:

" To: -big little john- wrong on all counts.
To: -transplant- wrote on Jul 30, 2009 1:16 PM

What millennium are you two living in -big little john- you admitted you and three other people are the only four who show up for the City Council Meetings.

Yet if you read the minutes of the people who have actually attended and who have stated their opinion it falls on deaf ears. You never read of action they are requesting being done.

Look at the Letter to the Editor not long ago of the poor guy crying his heart out because his neighbors won't move their house boat, motor boat and six or seven vehicles they have parked in his view. That's a zinger man, I would think Code Enforcement would be right on top of a complaint like that, and rectify this guy’s eyesore.

But what about the neighbor who has a 1955 Studebaker Hawk, (hoping to put in a car show someday), up on jacks in his front yard, doing some sort of maintenance or service? May be his neighbor’s idea of trash, but the owners idea of gold? "

Big John wrote on Jul 31, 2009 10:04 AM:

" Watchdog Fred wrote:

“...does the word HIPPA come to mind? I think we've had this discussion before. I mentioned nothing about medical in my post. Which did not give you permission to mention anything about what the circumstances of our meeting involved. I do believe that is a violation.”

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Privacy Rule regulates the use and disclosure of certain information held by "covered entities" (generally, health care clearinghouses, employer sponsored health plans, health insurers, and medical service providers that engage in certain transactions.) Since I am none of the above how are my comments covered by HIPPA?

If I were you (and the Sentinel) I’d be more concerned about the slander implications of “All he demonstrated to me, is he is as lousy at his day job as his job as Mayor of the City.”

-Big Little John "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 31, 2009 5:03 PM:

" To: Big -little john-

If I were you (and the Sentinel) I’d be more concerned about the slander implications of “All he demonstrated to me, is he is as lousy at his day job as his job as Mayor of the City.”

-Big Little John "

Just so you know when people put theirselves in public view and hold positions representing the public. The Public being me, is allowed to state my opinion until the cows come home.

Because it is just that my opinion. Others may feel he is doing a fantastic job, I for one don't think so in either case.

I being the one who received the services, should be allowed to comment about it, their study group they hired thought enough of me to send me a critique sheet on services rendered. So my opinion mattered to them.

What I did suggest was he come back when he wasn't working his day job and we could discuss things, he said he would and I am still waiting.

So his report card looks pretty bad in my humble opinion -big little john- "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 31, 2009 5:20 PM:

" To: big -little john-

Act (HIPAA) Privacy Rule regulates the use and disclosure of certain information

I think this pretty well pertains to all of us who walk the earth. If you are a patient you might be privy to other patients information and the disclosure of it in any way is a HIPPA violation.

The mayor was performing a medical service, so he my friend is subject to the HIPPA ruling and you have chosen to be his spoke’s person, without consulting him I am sure, which would put you in a bad spot I would think with the mayor.

So spout your nonsense about slander and we will see who has a case against whom. Slander is telling intentional lies/untruths. I've once again stated the truth!

The truth is my opinion which I am entitled to regarding his day job services or his Tuesday Night Part Time Gig as the Mayor. I'm offering up an opinion, and will state it as I see fit.

You want to talk about violations, you sir should read the Rules of the Road for Bloggers. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Jul 31, 2009 5:35 PM:

" To: big -little john-

All I have left to say to you, is when you first began blogging, I thought you presented some very intelligent points and often some good suggestions. I know I’ve needled you about thinking the city coffers will dry up next month if I don’t become a regular at the City Council Meetings.

But the innuendo you present if someone does show up at the City Council Meetings and what you infer you will do to them is neither fit for publication nor allowed according to the basic rules of this forum.

I think if you would once again choose the high road instead of personal attacks on me or anyone else for their own personal opinions, it’s ludicrous to say the least. So pull up those big little john panties and play fair and square and leave your temper at work, where it belongs. We aren’t here to spar other than verbally and everyone who wishes to join this forum should be allowed their opinions on public officials, without being chastised by you.

Once you lift your hand and say; "I will" to a public office, privacy vanishes. "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 1, 2009 2:44 PM:

" To: Big John

RE: Point of Law

Simply voicing one's personal opinion in a public forum about an elected official is not slander, Big John.

Rather, it is protected free speech under the U.S. Constitution/Bill of Rights.

As a matter of fact, these blogs/ forum responses are also protected free speech and are just as valuable as your go-to meetings IMHO.

And I do not appreciate threats that curb anyone's free speech rights no matter how ‘big' they claim to be and no matter how many meetings they go to.

Additionally, it was YOU who publicly mentioned specific people here by using their surname and title and what you think they said to another party in great detail.

You make no sound case at all, John, and are a shining example of why some of us might have second thoughts about attending these meetings you are so adamant about. "

Big John wrote on Aug 1, 2009 4:12 PM:

" My position is, and has always been, clear:

- hiding behind anonymity while defaming others is the definition of cowardice.

- complaining about a public process in which you refuse to participate is unproductive.

- calling people names when intellectual defense fails is juvenile.

I again encourage the blogging community to stop seeking excuses for sitting on your couch and get actively involved. It’s time to either fish or cut bait (using your real identity).

-Big John "

Bobb wrote on Aug 1, 2009 9:55 PM:

" Big John; just curious, but is your first name really Big and your last name John--as in Big John. If not you are chastising Fred and Alihandero for not using their real names but you fail to do so also. yes, my first name is Bobb. It is like the "pot calling the kettle black" as the saying goes. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 1, 2009 10:21 PM:

" To: -big little john- wrote on Aug 1, 2009 4:12 PM:

In other words, you stipulate what I've been saying all along. Unless you address the City Council in their chambers under their preconceived agenda, your opinion does not matter and will not be heard. So in essence, we agree, they are close minded and only prefer to deal with the public they are supposed to serve under their terms and conditions.

I’m glad we finally got that out in the open and clarified, thanks again for making my point for me.

I have stated it several times, but please tell me an instance where you have given your real name and agenda in this forum and secondly name one time when you yourself have had success getting an issue heard by the City Council? I keep asking you keep ignoring and we are getting no where ‘big’. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 1, 2009 10:36 PM:

" To: -big little john- wrote on Aug 1, 2009 4:12 PM:

(Continued) Is it the fact you get to rub elbows with a few of the Council members, that motivates you to attend?

Some of us do have lives and many of us are grownups who realize when and where it benefits us to speak up and out.

So tell me, who is delusional about what they are doing and to what benefit? I know when I blog here, several people may agree with me, but that is the amount of good it does for me to participate.

I have no pre-conceived agenda, I am not twisting anyone’s arm to participate in anything, I just appreciate the fact we have this forum to present our ideas and opinions. No visions of grandeur in my court.

I vote in every election, I try to be a good law abiding citizen. When I get pulled over for no license plate light, I fix it. Sometimes, I think you are way to involved with your civic duties. You think everyone should follow your lead. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 1, 2009 10:38 PM:

" To: "big john" wrote on Aug 1, 2009 4:12 PM:

My Watchdog Fred is just as real a name as your big little john, anyday! "

vld82 wrote on Aug 2, 2009 12:02 AM:

" The City is putting together a planning document for guiding future development. A structure is being established for various input which does not include this blog. I have gleaned the impression there are those who believe that quantity of comments is a substitute for quality of comment for reasons unknown. Blogs are also anonymous. Posting serves no constructive community purpose as they are outside of the established structure other than to provide some interpersonal conversations. I mean if you believe in a future vision for the Eastside then by all means go present it for inclusion into the process. For those good ideas to be identified, how can additional details be provided through a limited blog? "

vld82 wrote on Aug 2, 2009 12:15 AM:

" I should also add that I recognize that these blogs provide an outlet for those who believe they have no other venue available by which to express themselves for whatever reason(s). That appears to be particularly applicable in this instance. "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 2, 2009 1:39 PM:

" To: “Big” John,

You continually and consistently try to drum into our heads that the best way of making our voices heard is by attending meetings. Fine, that is your opinion.

But here are a couple of important questions I have for you and would appreciate an honest answer:

I would like to know if you personally changed ANY City Council vote or decision with your persuasive arguments during the time-limited public comments section?

And if you did change their hearts and minds by attending said meetings, was your goal accomplished by offering your public comments alone and not by any personal relationships you my have with the elected members?

Lastly, since you apparently attend all these meetings regularly and are not shy about speaking your mind (or so I believe), is it possible that your constant presence alone could have an intimidation factor on those same elected officials you want to influence?

I think we all here would like to hear from you on these things, “Big” John. "

Big John wrote on Aug 3, 2009 10:32 AM:

" Bobb wrote on Aug 1, 2009 9:55 PM:
" Big John; just curious, but is your first name really Big and your last name John--as in Big John. If not you are chastising Fred and Alihandero for not using their real names but you fail to do so also…”

I’m glad you asked the question as it appears my previous point was not made clearly.

I was specifically addressing the attack on Councilman Ayer’s performance as a physical therapist. I have no problem with a blogger hiding their identity when it relates to issues of public policy. I do have a problem when comments impact another person’s livelihood. I believe the moment a blogger announces to the community at large that someone is bad at their business profession the target of their comments deserves to know who they are so motives behind the comments can be measured.

Every major Internet yellow page site allows businesses rating, whether or not the visitor has every used their service. Some businesses use this same anonymous rating system to attack their competitors. I view this just as wrong as using this blog to accomplish the same thing.

-Big John "

Big John wrote on Aug 3, 2009 10:51 AM:

" Alihandero wrote:

“I would like to know if you personally changed ANY City Council vote with your persuasive arguments during the time-limited public comments section? ...was your goal accomplished by offering your public comments alone and not by any personal relationships …”

I have never influenced a council vote exclusively through the use of the five minute open mike. Truth is I’ve never tried.

Over a year ago I became actively involved. Through regular contributions I have fostered relationships which allow me to speak frankly with each member of the council. This is my point exactly.

Attending church does not result in immediate election to the governing board. Joining a service club does not make one electable as its president. Joining the Chamber and you won’t be asked to set policy. Likewise appearing at a single city council meeting can’t be expected to change the 20 year general plan. In every case one must attend first, but also be willing to work the hard issues to earn the right of influence.

As with most things - impact takes commitment and contribution.

-Big John "

Big John wrote on Aug 3, 2009 10:58 AM:

" Alihandero wrote:

“Lastly, since you apparently attend all these meetings regularly and are not shy about speaking your mind (or so I believe), is it possible that your constant presence alone could have an intimidation factor on those same elected officials you want to influence?”

I certainly hope so!

The logic of my argument is meant to be intimidating. My regular participation is meant to garner respect. It is not surprising the combination allows my suggestions to be taken seriously.

Everyone who rolls up their sleeves, and is willing to work side-by-side with our elected officials, has that same opportunity.

-Big John "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 3, 2009 6:28 PM:

" Wow!

I just can’t believe what “Big” John just disclosed; important details need to be noted as follows to be both fair and accurate:

#1. No contributor here publicly wrote out the NAME (first name and surname) of any official EXCEPT for “Big” John himself;

#2. No one here publicly wrote out the OCCUPATION of any official EXCEPT for “Big” John himself;

#3. “Big” John says this: “…Some businesses use this same anonymous rating system to attack their competitors. I view this just as wrong as using this blog to accomplish the same thing.”

Apparently, he believes that another blogger here is attacking a man’s business and profession to decrease competition?

What planet is this guy from anyway?

John says this:

“The logic of my argument is meant to be intimidating. My regular participation is meant to garner respect.”

This might be very well the hidden ‘message in a bottle’ that John wants us to digest:

The mistaken belief that by projecting intimidation you can force someone to respect you.

Life just does not work that way “Big” John. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 3, 2009 11:52 PM:

" To: -little big john- aka mr. big

So anything goes during the campaign and pay attention to your district until after the election and then forget about it. These people are supposed to be serving their districts, it is their job to walk those precincts even after election results are in and feel the pulse of their constituents. If they want ideas it is their duty to solicit them in anyway or forum they possibly can to get a true and big picture of voters whom they serve and represent. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 3, 2009 11:55 PM:

" To: -little big john- aka mr. big

Dan Chin did a lot of unnecessary pounding of his own chest regarding how important he was to the future planning of Hanford. He didn’t give a very good account of why he was needed other than he had bought a few previous elections and he was involved in previous planning because of that purchase.

I still think someone needs to look into the ethical practice of paying your self to make your signs and print your campaign leaflets. I thought it was the duty of our City Council to support other local businesses through spreading their wealth, not increasing one’s own bottom line and using the campaign funds to pay himself. I don’t think that campaign funding was initially earmarked for self-employment. IMHO! aka Buddy's Trophies

Once again these claims were made and not rebutted by Mr. Chin during the post election results. "

Big John wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:20 AM:

" Alihandero and Watchdog Fred,

You two could accomplish so much by repurposing the energy used to fuel your overwhelming anger. Get involved and make a difference. Stop talking and start doing.

Have to run. I’m off to my second interview with the redevelopment consultant.

-Big John "

Which way is up? wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:51 AM:

" I just hope that what ever is decided it's not money wasted like the $30,000 spent on a fire station location survey that is resulting in a fire station being built less than a mile and a half west of a current station which will have nearly half of its sphere of influence overlapping the existing one and the other half will be beyond the west side border of the city limits. Did I also mention that the "new station" won't do anything for any of the residents north of Fargo in respect to getting a fire company to their emergency within 5 minutes of dialing 911? City leaders ignore what the people need or wany anyway so what's the point in spending the $75,000? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 8, 2009 12:56 AM:

" TO; Big John wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:20 AM:

" Alihandero and Watchdog Fred,

You two could accomplish so much by repurposing the energy used to fuel your overwhelming anger. Get involved and make a difference. Stop talking and start doing.

Have to run. I’m off to my second interview with the redevelopment consultant.

-Big John "

-little big john-, you are more entertaining than the comic page in the paper. You think we alihandero and I demonstrate anger? That is the funniest line I've read all year long.

You wanna talk about the kettle calling the pot black! This is it folks. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 9, 2009 7:02 AM:

" To: -little big john- I truly find it amazing that you continue to blog on this forum. You seem to think that it is so entirely useless and not the correct way to get the City Council's attention.

Funny how topics have gone from here to the Council Chambers and been enacted upon. So someone must be stealing the ideas and taking credit for them.
Those of us in walkers and wheel chairs who can't afford those battery operated terrain masters, know better. When crossing Irwin or Douty streets and your wheel gets stuck in a rut, it doesn't seem very handicapped accessible to those of us using those devices.

I to agree that the Thursday Night Market Place needs to move back in the square and bench seating for the elderly should be more readily available. Instead of more sitting opportunities in our parks and recreation there are less. This makes it hard for people with handicapps to participate.

I don't recall anyone saying that those with battery operated terrain mobiles were the only one's invited into our parks and events? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 9, 2009 7:23 AM:

" IMHO, the drinking and the profits made from it, may be futile to say the least. If so much alcohol wasn't pandered on our city streets you might see people of all ages spending more money for shop keepers wares, vegetables, fruits and other farm grown pickled okra, pickles, etc. etc., etc.

You certainly would have a better class of people, not enebriated and making noise and cursing obsenities for children to here.

I think we have taken our focus off of what Thursday Night Market started as and tried to turn it into a street fair instead of a market place.

Every Thursday Night during the summer is not Mardi Gras, not to say you couldn't pick another night and have a Mardi Gras with for warning to those normal Market goers what you are doing.

If Alcohol is part of the theme, perhaps controls like Visalia might work. They select a group to sponsor the drinking, they sit up, tables and sell wrist bands and coupons for drinks. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 9, 2009 7:28 AM:

" Continued: What does it say about a city association that will allow blatant alcohol consumption to the extent of people being intoxicated at their Festivities. But Wal~mart Employees wearing their work shirts working on the “Relay For Life” Cancer Charity will be 86d from their event? What group and who has, their priorities confused, ladies and gentlemen?

What group of caring parents wants to roll their kids in strollers up and down Irwin Street and Douty Street when in front of the Fox Theater the live band’s music is blaring so loud the street is actually shaking from it?

We condemn others for driving around with their boomers banging with children’ fastened in seat belts in those vehicles then we at a city-wide event do similar actions. Isn’t that called a duel set of values, to say the least? All in the name of the almighty dollar and the quest for it? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 9, 2009 7:46 AM:

" I find myself stumbling over the title of this article again and again. Afterall -little big john- has informed us that this forum cannot and will not be a source of information for the learned City Council Members. However, the title seems to suggest to me, that this forum is exactly where they might look for enlightenment. Otherwise the Hanford Sentinel would have printed a disclaimer, don't leave your ideas here, wouldn't they? It seems to me Eiji compellingly covered all 5 of the W's in Journalism, so yeah I think this is a valid forum for suggestions. Even if -big little john- alias mr. big doesn't.
"Pulic comment is key to forming workable vision," does that not suggest participation at this level?

"City seeks participation in downtown study:
Officials say public comment key to forming workable vision" "

transplant wrote on Aug 10, 2009 2:06 PM:

" Fred,

The ARTICLE also gives information about the actual meeting on August 29 and says the meeting is open to the public and will end with a brainstorming session. That means they want comments from the people attending or at least comments sent to them. Twist it how you like, they still want participation OUTSIDE this forum. Since you're able to be out and around at the Thursday Night Market Place, why not stop by on that Saturday and participate a little? I think you're just too stubborn to go. lol "

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