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Another View: What Franklin D. Roosevelt can teach Obama

Opponents have unleashed a torrent of hyperbolic claims and heated invective in an effort to stop President Barack Obama's health-care reform. But the president shouldn't be surprised by the rhetoric.

Three-quarters of a century ago, nearly identical denunciations were used in an attempt to kill legislation that created one of the country's most popular government programs: Social Security.

Although no one was talking about "death panels" back then, opponents claimed that Social Security would result in massive government control. A Republican congressman from New York, for example, charged: "The lash of the dictator will be felt, and 25 million free American citizens will for the first time submit themselves to a fingerprint test."

Another New York congressman put it this way: "The bill opens the door and invites the entrance into the political field of a power so vast, so powerful as to threaten the integrity of our institutions and to pull the pillars of the temple down upon the heads of our descendants." A Republican senator from Delaware claimed that Social Security would "end the progress of a great country and bring its people to the level of the average European."

Today, opponents of a public health insurance option claim that it would drive private health insurance out of business and put a bureaucrat between doctors and patients. Back then, opponents of Social Security warned that it would "establish a bureaucracy in the field of insurance in competition with private business" that would "destroy" private pensions.

Then as now, opponents played the socialism card. In hearings before the Senate Finance Committee, a senator from Oklahoma accusingly asked President Franklin D. Roosevelt's secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins, "Isn't this socialism?" When Perkins emphatically answered no, the senator leaned forward and, with a conspiratorial whisper, pressed, "Isn't this a teeny-weeny bit of socialism?"

Unlike today, however, the political rhetoric never gained traction in 1935. Although nearly every Republican in Congress was vehemently opposed to Social Security, Roosevelt prevented them from controlling the debate. Months before Congress was presented with legislation, FDR sought to immunize the public.

In a series of fireside chats and other broadcasts, the president anticipated arguments and responded before public opposition got out of control. "A few timid people, who fear progress, will try to give you new and strange names for what we are doing," he said in one talk. "Sometimes they will call it 'fascism,' sometimes 'communism,' sometimes 'regimentation,' sometimes 'socialism.' But, in so doing, they are trying to make very complex and theoretical something that is really very simple and very practical. ... I believe that what we are doing today is a necessary fulfillment of what Americans have always been doing -- a fulfillment of old and tested American ideals. ... We remain, as John Marshall said a century ago, 'emphatically and truly, a government of the people.'"

In order to generate both sound legislation and broad-based support, Roosevelt established an interagency committee with a professional staff to craft the legislation and an advisory council made up of sympathetic representatives of business, labor and the general public, carefully balanced with Republicans and Democrats, to endorse and explain the new program.

When the legislation was introduced in Congress on Jan. 17, 1935, the president delivered a message asking for speedy action, and, once again, he framed the debate. His legislation, he explained, "has not attempted the impossible, nor has it failed to exercise sound caution and consideration of all of the factors concerned, (including) ... the capacity of industry to assume financial responsibilities and the fundamental necessity of proceeding in a manner that will merit the enthusiastic support of citizens of all sorts."

He concluded forcefully. "No one can guarantee this country against the dangers of future depressions, but we can reduce these dangers. ... This plan for economic security is at once a measure of prevention and a method of alleviation. We pay now for the dreadful consequence of economic insecurity -- and dearly. This plan presents a more equitable and infinitely less expensive means of meeting these costs. We cannot afford to neglect the plain duty before us. I strongly recommend action."

And Congress did act. Social Security was signed into law 74 years ago, on Aug. 14, 1935.

It may be too late for President Obama to frame and control the debate over health care reform. But if he is to have a successful administration, he should learn from FDR. Like Roosevelt, he must talk directly to the American people. He must clearly demonstrate with words and deeds, as FDR did, that he is fighting for the interests of Main Street, not Wall Street. He should frame future debates on his terms -- before opposing politicians shape the message their way. By emulating FDR, Obama will find the bipartisanship he seeks, not inside the halls of Congress but among a broad cross section of Americans who are focused on pragmatic solutions rather than partisan advantage.

The parallels between the challenges faced by Obama and Roosevelt are many. Like FDR, Obama is confronted with economic collapse and deadly fighting overseas. The two men have similar strengths as well. Like Obama, FDR was an eloquent orator and an inspiring leader. If Obama follows Roosevelt's lead, he, like FDR, may well produce a legacy that grateful Americans will be writing and talking about three-quarters of a century from now.

Altman is the author of the recent history, "The Battle for Social Security: From FDR's Vision to Bush's Gamble."

(Aug. 15, 2009)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

SJT wrote on Aug 14, 2009 10:56 PM:

" So, Republicans. Put up or shut up. Would you support legislation to abolish Social Security and Medicare? Both are socialist, government-run programs, so you'd be willing to part with both, right?

Ironic when we recall the Bush Republican Congress voting in the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003, again, a socialist plan, but this time not funded and very generous to Phrma & HMOs (read:wasteful); there was no attempt to even pay for it, rather let the hundreds of billions of dollars for the cost be added to the nation's suddenly growing debt (and teabaggers cry about government spending now!).

And to think the Obama Congress catches hell from Republicans because they need to find an extra $30B (reduce tax exemptions a point or two for wealthy sounds good to me) so America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 can pass WITH FUNDING and not be added to the nation's debt.

So what's it gonna be (looking for consistency here)? "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 15, 2009 6:17 PM:

" The pro-FDR-as-role-model-for-Obama author opines this:

"It may be too late for President Obama to frame and control the debate over health care reform."

With a full majority Democratic Senate and House of Representatives, a fully liberal President and huge administration of his choosing, why can't this man get everything passed he believes he deserves?

You can't blame the Republicans on this one, SJT...try the American people, perhaps? "

SJT wrote on Aug 16, 2009 7:13 AM:

" I hope the House & Senate can pass the various bills to confer with, up to and including the public option, so 46 million Americans currently without access to health care can get coverage, and not go broke doing it.

W never worried about bipartisanship. His lies to get us into invading Iraq, costing the lives of over 4,000 American troops, and tens of thousands more horrifically injured, indicated his disregard for them, let alone their health. He signed every Republican bill and vetoed every Democratic bill sent to him. He vetoed to continue funding the updated SCHIP because it added a few more children eligible for health care, yet signed the 2003 bill to fatten the spreadsheets of Phrma and HMOs (socialism, Republican style).

Not assessing blame at all here, Ali; just looking for some clarity. Your party hemorrhaged its last two elections, and if Health Care passes, your party will likely suffer huge again in oh ten (and maybe 2012).

Is that why you would not want coverage for 46 million Americans? Is politics that important? "

ToldYouSo wrote on Aug 17, 2009 9:30 PM:

" Biggest difference I see is FDR's ability and Obama's lack of it. "

jeff wrote on Aug 18, 2009 8:36 AM:

" “One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it."

-Ronald Reagan speaking against Medicare in 1961.

I guess if you're on Medicare you're a commie, socialist, leftist, fascist, Marxist, Democrat. "

Skip wrote on Aug 18, 2009 11:34 AM:

" I agree with SJT! Is there any way we can get Bush back? "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 18, 2009 8:07 PM:

" SJT, here is the " clarity " you are looking for:

I am an Independent as I periodically mention in these forums and not a Republican, so that is patently another untruth on your part.

As an independent I can find what works best for myself, my family, and America and what does not, and then I act accordingly.

It is not my doing that conservative solutions are - more often than not - found to preserve the core principles and traditions that the United States was founded on.

Certain things in our past were indeed patently wrong: like slavery and not allowing women to vote for so long or unequal pay for identical work and performance; being independent strengthens the dialogue and allows one to chart his own course using his mind and heart and conscience.

ToldYouSo wrote on Aug 17, 2009 9:30 PM:
" Biggest difference I see is FDR's ability and Obama's lack of it. "

That astute observation is another point of clarity for you, SJT.

Crystal clarity. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 19, 2009 8:13 PM:

" To: SJT do you recall the infamous speech and debate that took place where the democratic candidate started quoting JFK and the Republican candidate spoke up and said; "I knew JFK and sir you are not him." Ditto here SJT, my father new FDR and Obama is not FDR. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 20, 2009 12:30 PM:

" I supply for you a comment made by Lloyd Besten to Dan Quayle, I feel the same about Obama he is no FDR or anything close to it.


"Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" was a phrase spoken during the 1988 United States vice-presidential debate by Democratic vice-presidential candidate Senator Lloyd Bentsen to Republican vice-presidential candidate Senator Dan Quayle. Jack Kennedy was a reference to John F. Kennedy, the 35th President of the United States. Since then, the words "You're no Jack Kennedy," or some variation on Bentsen's remark, have become a part of the political lexicon as a way to deflate politicians or other individuals perceived as thinking too highly of themselves." "

Paul wrote on Aug 20, 2009 1:37 PM:

" ToldYouSo wrote on Aug 17, 2009 9:30 PM:

" Biggest difference I see is FDR's ability and Obama's lack of it. "

"Crystal clarity." Alihandero wrote:

What is the "clarity???" Better yet what is FDR's Ability???"

after all, he put into play regulations on banks that republicans from ronnie on down have said we (the banks) don't need. And look at where we are now.

So what shows "clarity" to me is that when tough decisions need to be made the republicans are the first to bring doom and gloom to America, the "real Americans", the Consitution. and my favorite the "socialism" card.

And although you may claim to be an independant, you have take every occasion to praise any republican idea, act or speech. So, like rush said about Powell, you need to leave the independants because you are really a republican ali.

it seems that only republicans can understand their coded messages. You republicans throw any statement, lie or rumor in hopes that it will feed yet another nerve of grandma and grandpa.

No facts, just feelings. "

not so fast wrote on Aug 21, 2009 2:59 AM:

" Well Alihandro and "ToldYouSo" there are other differences that need to be considered that FAR outweigh what you are discussing here.

The actual legislation presented, and the tenor and amount of discussion happening.

There is no ONE legislation before congress right now, there are 4 different versions. Each contains similar language, but beware of people on TV that say they have read "the legislation" since they likely have only read one version...or an adulterated version presented by one side or the other. In FDR's case, there was one legislation being discussed. That leads to more granularity in the points made.

Today we have a plethora of "talking heads" on radio that wish nothing more than to sqaush the debate BEFORE it starts. To them that amounts to a defeat of their opposition (Democrats). In FDR's day there was less immediate exposure and it was more likely people would actually consider the ideas before latching on to them like "ditto heads."

These two factors make this discussion far different than the previous. Not the ability or lack thereof. "

jeff wrote on Aug 21, 2009 8:54 AM:

" “do you recall the infamous speech and debate that took place where the democratic candidate started quoting JFK and the Republican candidate spoke up and said; "I knew JFK and sir you are not him." Ditto here SJT, my father new FDR and Obama is not FDR. "

“Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" was a phrase spoken during the 1988 United States vice-presidential debate by Democratic vice-presidential candidate Senator Lloyd Bentsen to Republican vice-presidential candidate Senator Dan Quayle.”

Let’s play a game called Find the inconsistency and guess which comment was posted after the author searched Wikipedia. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 21, 2009 12:39 PM:

" A major difference I spot at a glance, Is I never saw FDR place $4,500 rebate checks in the hands of Henry Ford's customers. He never spent three billion dollars putting the used car and car parts businesses under the rug.

So far Obama has helped two industries in the United States and they are tied together through loan contracts. The Auomotive Industry and their bankers who give them kick backs on interest. "

Paul wrote on Aug 21, 2009 5:42 PM:

" Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 21, 2009 12:39 PM:

" A major difference I spot at a glance, Is I never saw FDR place $4,500 rebate checks in the hands of Henry Ford's customers. He never spent three billion dollars putting the used car and car parts businesses under the rug.

So that's your response??!

I don't think the country as a whole had three billion dollars. So that doesn't hold water.

Let me ask... when bush sent those rebate checks out... you member, the ones that were supposed to "stimulate or jump start the economy back then, did you send your back wdf.

I mean if you are having a problem with President Obama trying to get the car industry going again and GIVING money away, did you think the same thing with bush. was that a bad idea too? "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 21, 2009 5:50 PM:

" Actually, Obama could learn much from Winston Churchill in many ways.

Take this meaningful quote:

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”

Talk amongst yourselves, usual suspects! "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 21, 2009 8:36 PM:

" To: jeff ff wrote on Aug 21, 2009 8:54 AM

You remind me of the protester in the 1960's who walked proudly carrying a sign, a sign that was empty and without a single word written upon it. But you still carried it with the pride of a
self- indulgent, drug infused, robot, without thought or the ability to put two ideas in a single sentence.

When I am providing information, I like to include the facts, since I have a life, they may come later in another blog, but they do come, jeff ff. Your everlasting attack at Wikipedia, as an unreliable source and then you quote from it at another time is becoming a bit old and over used.

I notice you downgrade a source but fail to provide a substitute of any caliber so that it may be judged accordingly. In closing if you do not possess an intelligent argument you do not have an argument jeff ff. Perhaps you need to climb back on Mr. Dunham’s stick and travel with the show. "

Deb wrote on Aug 21, 2009 10:52 PM:

" Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs&feature=related "

SJT wrote on Aug 22, 2009 12:45 PM:

" Lying is acceptable (crucial) to advance the GOP cause of returning to power. Apparently, most don't get that getting caught lying (Watchdog Fred, JFK, Quayle, Bentsen) only compounds their lacking credibility and shrinkage problem. I'm sure it was like fish in a barrel, but good catch regardless, Jeff. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 23, 2009 10:51 PM:

" To: SJT wrote on Aug 22, 2009 12:45 PM:

For a moment in time I substituted a demoncrat for a republican, my mistake, I'll own up to it. But the actual and factual statement was true Mr. Qayle is not John Fitzgerald Kennedy anymore than Barack Hussein Obama is Franklin D. Roosevelt. Point well made and point well established.

Keep praying for the underdog, he'll wake up one day either over Iraq or Afghanistan and realize he sliced off too large a piece of this pie.

Whatever, you and the Prophet Jeff care to state, we are dealing with Obama's wars now and Obama is doing absolutely nothing to deal with them. He is too involved playing Commander In Their with his national medical car plan for the nation.

First big red flag for you drunken democrats should be the fact that the Congress and Senate are not ready to drop their cadillac insurance to go to the national one proposed by Obama. The Senators and Congressman say thanks but no thanks we'll keep our own.
National health care won't succeed, no one wants to surrender what they have. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 23, 2009 10:55 PM:

" To: SJT wrote on Aug 22, 2009 12:45 PM:

Do you want to surrender your insurance for a coverage like Medical or Medicaid? I hardly think so, whatever you have if it is insurance tops those two plans believe me.

Medicare sucks out hundreds of dollars a month from veterans who can't even use their medicare cards at the VA's across the nation.

Go ahead jump in with your eyes closed you are about to get a rude awakening when it comes to nationalized healthcare.

Grandma and Grandpa will have the plug pulled on them. Canada is already saying they won't perform a stent placement on anyone over the age of 50 years. I'd been dead eight years ago, if we had that in this country.

You people better wake up and smell the roses and realize one day you to shall get old and when people are ready to pull your plug, you may not be ready for them to pull it.

I'm 58 my grandfather lived to be 89, I don't think its time to change insurance programs. "

jeff wrote on Aug 24, 2009 11:21 AM:

" Fred, why should I write anything on my "Sign" when you do all the work for me? Care to give an example of when I've offered facts without a source?

SJT, thanks. "

jeff wrote on Aug 24, 2009 11:39 AM:

" "Deb wrote on Aug 21, 2009 10:52 PM:
Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs&feature=related"

Deb, you do realize he was talking about Medicare? So I take it you're against Medicare, social security, public education and public roads? "

Paul wrote on Aug 24, 2009 1:14 PM:

" Alihandero wrote on Aug 21, 2009 5:50 PM:

" Actually, Obama could learn much from Winston Churchill in many ways.

Take this meaningful quote:

In your frenzy to attack ANYTHING that has to do with President Obama or Democrat, what you didn't read was the name of this article or the fact that up until this commment from you EVERYBODY else was talking abour FDR not Winston.

The "intellect" of some people truly does "confuse" ali. "

Paul wrote on Aug 24, 2009 2:46 PM:

" Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 23, 2009 10:55 PM:

That's the ENTIRE purpose of having "INSURANCE" isn't it wdf.

To have it when you need it. I had to shell out over $500.00 a month for my family when my kids were little.

Read wdf... that $6000.00. A YEAR!!! So yeah, wdf I felt the pain every month that, THANK GOD, I didn't have to use any insurance to pay for, in case, something happened with one of my kids.

So let me ask you wdf... wasn't the insurance company "sucking" hundreds of dollars out of me. And how many COUNTLESS others were/do they do the same thing to???

And I am mad wdf... that they never once said oh, you didn't use your insurance this year so here's your 6000 back. Yeah right.

I'd rather pay the gov't to have a program to take care of me. After all didn't bush limit what I can sue for??

So yeah. Where can I sign up for the gov't program??? "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 24, 2009 3:03 PM:

" Paul, everyone here - well, almost - knows that Winston Churchill was another great world leader at the same time as FDR and I did mean to interject his name and one of his astute quotations that Obama could potentially learn from.

Sorry you didn't get it, Paul, and I will strive to be not so subtle in the future.

Obama can be taught much by MANY great world leaders past and present as he is still in the job learning mode.

What: did you think a local community organizer, lawyer, and freshman Senator could be 100% prepared to take on the most complex job in the world on day one?

Or, does he know everything he has to already? "

Deb wrote on Aug 24, 2009 6:05 PM:

" Nope, Jeff. - not me, I'm one of the other people referred to as un-american on this board simply by being a liberal. I was posting that for them... you know, the "others". As a reminder of the scare tactics the GOP uses to control people. It's been going on for a very long time.

While, I don't mind terming schools, roads, medicare, social security socialist - others abhor its use. Those who say we are a capitalist society are so wrong. Certainly there are facets of a capitalist society, but there are also facets of socialism. So what.... It's those facets that reflect moral contribution to mankind.

Sorry if I offend... but that's just who I am. "

Deb wrote on Aug 24, 2009 6:49 PM:

" Fred - facts please! Most of the hyberbole being propogated about Canadian Health insurance is completely untrue. I've have spoken to numerous Canadians over the years. About 1/3 of my clientse Canadian and while they fully understand the cost, they'd much rather experience their health care system than ours.

They love coming to America but would never move here. Go ahead reach out to some Canadians and find out for yourself. UNLESS of course you can come up with FACTS! "

manuel wrote on Aug 24, 2009 8:29 PM:

" As we can all see, no one could teach Bush anything "

SJT wrote on Aug 24, 2009 9:06 PM:

" I think Deb's point was despite RR's dire (and incorrect) predictions of [America going to hell in a hand-basket], Medicare more-or-less did okay. It must have, since Bush Republicans spent (borrowed) $580 billion to subsidize the pharmaceutical industry in the 2003 Medicare Modernization Act.

Speaking of the 2003 Medicare Modernization Act... Dems (and many Republicans) asked Republicans how this to be paid for, esp. given we had two wars going full-bore and recent tax-cuts for the wealthy had created a growing deficit by this time.. The answer was: they won't fund it; rather, just add it to the nation's credit card. After all, the '04 election was just around the corner (and no teabaggers to complain). Those many Republicans who didn't like it, voted YES in the end. To this day, Dems and Republicans loathe that bill - it was the essence of corporate welfare - and I'll say it again: Socialism, Republican style.

Anyhow, I hope I correctly represent Deb's intention, though I may be wrong.

Fred, I support single-payer (like what you, me & Dandre had in the military). "

jeff wrote on Aug 25, 2009 8:55 AM:

" Thank you for your reply Deb. "

Paul wrote on Aug 25, 2009 10:37 AM:

" Alihandero wrote on Aug 24, 2009 3:03 PM:

" Paul, everyone here - well, almost - knows that Winston Churchill was another great world leader at the same time as FDR and I did mean to interject his name and one of his astute quotations that Obama could potentially learn from.

Like I've said many times before "pompous" anyone??

One can only be left to wonder if "some" of us here had a hard time staying on task at school. Maybe that is why "no child left behind" was implemented.

As a former teacher (you say) didn't it drive you crazy to assign your students to write a paper on say, WW2 and they a paper on the the War of 1812??!

After all its about a war and every war can teach us something, right???

Come on ali, you jump from one person to other without warning. So, in anybody's reality you don't make sense nor do you present an effective argument. Did you go to night school most of your life?

Back to you ali... and the next didn't stay on task comment. "

Skip wrote on Aug 25, 2009 12:16 PM:

" Did it surprise anyone that Paul would write "Where can I sign up for the gov't program"? A true Lib, with hand out for any give away! Never wanting to earn anything for themselves. The sad part is they probably have children and teach them no responsibility also. "

Skip wrote on Aug 25, 2009 12:19 PM:

" SJT says taxing the wealthy a point or two sounds good to him. Another good Lib, a big LEECH! That's there money, earn your own! "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 25, 2009 5:06 PM:

" RE: Another View: What Franklin D. Roosevelt can teach Obama

Once again I attempt to follow the Sentinel’s Rules of the Road and stay on the topic of ‘what Obama can be taught’ while attempting to withstand the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune by restating something that our President CAN be taught:

“…Actually, Obama could learn much from Winston Churchill in many ways.

Take this meaningful quote:

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”

- Winston Churchill”

And please excuse any pomposity one may glean from his perspicacious statement; after all, he was one of THE greatest guardians of freedom and democracy in the 20th century! "

Pete wrote on Aug 25, 2009 5:42 PM:

" Everyone knows Obama was not born in Hawaii, but who cares? The same people would vote for him even after knowing the truth. There are a number of Muslim heads of states, America has one of them. "

Dandre wrote on Aug 25, 2009 6:46 PM:

" Britain is not a Democracy and Churchill's 'countrymen' would run you out on a rail if you were to suggest that they give up their truly socialistic healthcare system for our 'death for profit system' that kills 15000 Americans every YEAR. In fact, name ONE country that is giving up their different degree of socialistic systems for OUR system that tries to force people into abortions because the Insurance Company doesn't cover babies whose 'problems' were known before birth because that's a pre-existing.
Why aren't you quoting the world's number 1 socialist...Jesus Christ "

Paul wrote on Aug 26, 2009 12:12 PM:

" Pete wrote on Aug 25, 2009 5:42 PM:

" Everyone knows Obama was not born in Hawaii, but who cares?

EVERYONE or just you???

So tell me peet, have you seen his official birth certificate??? I think the last one that was presented by the birthers and believed by people like you had President Obama born in Australia, Kenya and only people like you know where else.

I think that the main reason why some people make the claim that President Obama wasn't born in the US has to do more with not accepting a person of color as the president of AMERICA than "seeking the truth" because even if Ronnie himself was to present a certified copy of the presidents B.C., some would say that it was PLANTED there in the 60's.

Believe what you want peet, Americans throughout the ages have died so you can believe what you want. "

Paul wrote on Aug 26, 2009 1:03 PM:

" skippy...

Either you are a CEO of some wall street company or so independently wealthy that you don't have to worry about Social Security or Medicare when you get to be an old timer, then more power to you.

However, for the MAJORITY of us REAL AMERICANS, when we get to be old timers, we AREN'T going to turn away what little we have worked all our lives for. Ask any of your older relatives, if you have any, and get back to us with what they say, ok??

What is even sadder skippy, is that you think that you worked or earned something and no one else has. You probably belong to the same "We White Americans" group as others.

My daughter just finished her Masters in Reading and is planning to return to town to teach, so watch out she may teach your kids or your grandkids my ideas not HOW NOT to earn anything.

And my son is in the military protecting Americans right to say the things YOU DO, just like I did in the Army.

So yeah, skippy, I'm a TRUE AMERICAN. "

Paul wrote on Aug 26, 2009 5:27 PM:

" ali...

You can quote whatever world leader from any time period and so what ... what will that "prove" to anyone???

Quote, like Dandre said, "Jesus Christ" what would be wrong with that??

After all He hung out with instigators, feeding people for free, and He dispensed medicine and miracles for FREE and in return you gave what you could. And all He asked for was for you to believe in HIM.

Sounds socialist to me.

So quote the wild man from Borneo if you must/want to make pointless sense.

I will stay here in the US and listen to the people and presidents for here.

And if you want to go to England or Borneo to find someone that WE can learn from, then be my guest. That is probably who the republicans are listening to anyway. "

Skip wrote on Aug 26, 2009 7:07 PM:

" Their mother must be a Republican! It really doesn't matter the age of the child, it's never good to teach them to ask for a handout. "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 26, 2009 8:52 PM:

" So Paul, let me get this straight:

When I talk honestly about myself and my background and use appropriate language you can and do mock me because it is not censored - - even though it violates the rules of the road for posting in the Sentinel online?

Why is it OK for you to do that when disagreeing with my point of view?

And what the heck - excuse me - is a
"Masters in Reading?"

I am not familiar with that advanced degree and would like to know more.

Thanks. "

SJT wrote on Aug 26, 2009 9:53 PM:

" Skip, I do earn my own, and I pay my full-share of the taxes my income bracket says I should pay (28%); quite unlike many wealthy who can afford to hire a room full of attorneys, paid to make sure they do NOT have to pay the share their income brackets says they should pay (35% - loopholes make it 18%).

Unless you make more than $250K/annum, Skip, then I have to wonder why in the hell you'd support the class of wealth over the working class guy who pays his share to support your Soc. Sec. and Medicare when you become eligible, pave and light your streets, repair the sewer systems your pooh gets sent to, your fire dept., your sheriff's dept., your military, your national weather service, your city parks, and your police dept. "

SuziQ wrote on Aug 27, 2009 7:13 AM:

" Don't get so upset Paul. You're the one who said "where can I sign up for the gov't program" looking for a free hand out. "

Paul wrote on Aug 27, 2009 9:59 AM:

" SuziQ wrote on Aug 27, 2009 7:13 AM:

" Don't get so upset Paul. You're the one who said "where can I sign up for the gov't program" looking for a free hand out. "

Oh suziq... I used to love that song. Good memories.

I NEVER said I was looking for a "free handout."

Like many republicans you say things WITHOUT any facts. You simply "say." You quote "feelings" and not facts which makes it hard to hold an intelligent conversation with and understand you.

Don't believe me, read ali, he wants to quote everybody under the sun to "help" an American president. I guess no American president needed any help from quotes until now.

And skip is stuck on the term "handout." I don't know what that means exactly.

And then you jump in quoting "looking for a free hand out."

If you read my blog you'll see I didn't say that. My quote was "

"I'd rather PAYthe gov't to have a program to take care of me.
So yeah. Where can I sign up for the gov't program??? "

Feelings. "

Paul wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:09 AM:

" lulz wrote on Aug 26, 2009 1:16 PM:

" Obamunists and Republicant bawwwwers can thank a brave civil rights pioneer named George W. Bush who spent 8 long years tirelessly campaigning on behalf of the junior Senator from the most politically corrupt state in the Union and laying the groundwork for an elitist, abortion-loving, black Moslem with no birth certificate and his anti-American, political simpleton , wife to get elected in the world's most racist country. No mean feat given that Obama came packing a Socialist agenda of "personal responsibility", "shared sacrifice", and "hard work" to a people perfectly happy with their time-tested value system of being lazy, fat, greedy cheats, and who couldn't care less about the next guy. "

To say that republicans sling feelings rather than facts is an understatement after reading this one.

Again, I think most republicans are MAD because a person of color won the election in Nov. than ANY OTHER REASON.

You could have elected mccain any loony sarah but...

THEY LOST. GET OVER IT!! "

RobertD wrote on Aug 27, 2009 1:01 PM:

" I understand (but do not agree with) SJT's "class warfare" anger, but isn't something like 50% of all tax revenue paid by the top 5% incomewise? And isn't 95% of all tax revenue paid for by the top half incomewise? Nobody likes the multitude of loopholes in our tax code, but to claim that the "rich" aren't paying their fair share ignores the data. My wife and I have a combined income close to 200K and I sure don't feel or live rich. Maybe the answer to the problem is a return to limited government, fiscal, responsibiliyt, and budgetary restraint...and not higher taxes for anyone. "

jeff ff wrote on Aug 28, 2009 10:02 AM:

" "My wife and I have a combined income close to 200K and I sure don't feel or live rich."

Then you're doing it wrong. "

SJT wrote on Aug 28, 2009 3:39 PM:

" (Unsure if >24hrs in moderation queue is normal, poss.duplicate)

Class warfare? If there ever was a war, I'd say the middle class lost it when most of their jobs went o'seas over the past eight years. Our manufacturing base was transplanted into places like China where workers earn 33 cents an hour; it's very profitable, but the only middle class that benefits would be the Chinese. We get Wal Mart.

A return to the days of fiscal responsibility would find us going back to the Clinton years. He passed along a budget surplus to the Bush Republicans and it disappeared damn-near o'night. By March of 2006 the nation's debt had risen to $8.2 billion. What is the answer to that problem, RobD? It's only after we see the near destruction of our economy that we just now speak pragmatically about fiscal restraint - after the banks go broke. What hypocrisy from the borrow-and-spend Republicans.

I don't see anger in my post, but I s'pose you could characterize it however you like - marginalize me as you see fit. Certainly being called a leech (you stay classy, Skip), I'd characterize as anger. "

SJT wrote on Aug 28, 2009 8:36 PM:

" Correction: 'By March of 2006 the nation's debt had risen to $8.2 billion.'

Should read: By March of 2006 the nation's debt had risen to $8.2 trillion.

My apologies for the confusion. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Aug 28, 2009 9:12 PM:

" so SJT are you implying that Bush didn't inherit any of the National Debt from Clinton's 8 years?? "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Sep 2, 2009 6:34 AM:

" To: Alihandero wrote on Aug 26, 2009 8:52 PM:

A Master In Reading?????? Someone who reads comic books faster than anyone else can read them. A speed reader of non essential facts and conditions. Beyond me. "




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