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Another View: American the delusional

Several weeks in rural Ireland may have softened the emotional carapace required for any extended immersion in American politics these days, but it's hard not to be taken aback by the televised images of people opposed to health-care reform carrying guns to rallies at which President Barack Obama is speaking.

At least a dozen people openly displaying weapons ranging from an AR-15 assault rifle to 9 mm Beretta sidearms were in the crowd outside the hall where Obama spoke in Arizona on Monday. The state is one of those that have a so-called open-carry law, which allows people into public places with loaded weapons. Their appearance at recent rallies is supposed to signal their implacable opposition to the "tyranny" of health-care reform.

In Hagerstown, Md., last week, a man appeared at a town-hall meeting hosted by Sen. Benjamin Cardin, D-Md., with a sign that read "Death to Obama" and "Death to Michelle and her two stupid kids."

Something has shifted since Obama's election. Along with the now mindlessly normative red state/blue state polarization and autonomic politicization of even the most trivial incident, there's a kind of hysteria that seems to be creeping in from the fringes -- a new tenor to our disagreements and a startling attenuation of reason.

For people in my end of journalism, barely two hours now pass without the arrival of one or more e-mails -- or e-mailed "investigative" articles -- from people who continue to insist that Obama is not a native-born American citizen. Despite the fact that the governor and chief medical officer of his home state, Hawaii, have confirmed as recently as late last month that public records confirm the president was born there, the so-called birthers continue to assert that he's actually a Kenyan, or an Indonesian or even a Canadian.

Some of these characters pirouette off that delusion into charges that Obama secretly is a Muslim, that his educational record is fabricated (tell that one to his classmates) or that he covertly belongs to an underground Marxist party that lurks somewhere in south Chicago and has long been planning a socialist coup. One awaits the inevitable revelation that his "real parents" were among the space aliens everyone knows the government keeps hidden in Area 51.

It would be convenient to dismiss all this as the undercurrent of paranoid style that is a constant in American politics, but hysterical fantasies of Obama's purported illegitimacy and secret malevolence continue to bleed into the mainstream media as well. Lou Dobbs, CNN's house demagogue, has flirted with the birther fringe, even though his colleagues' reporting has utterly discredited the allegations. Meanwhile, over on Fox News, Glenn Beck, this season's Howard Beale wannabe, has denounced Obama as "a racist" who is acting out of "a deep-seated hatred of white people or the white culture."

Somehow all of this anxious animosity has become the background noise crowding out nearly all substantive and realistic discussion of the critical issues surrounding health-care reform. This is one of the most complex and consequential initiatives of our time, over which even the most serious-minded people of goodwill are bound to have real differences. The stakes are immense, and the discussion, insofar as the reality of partisan politics permits, ought to reflect that.

Instead, we have Rush Limbaugh darkly informing his listeners that Obama's real intention is to impose "government control of life and death." (Limbaugh, of course, never had to worry about whether his prescription drug plan covered Vicodin or OxyContin, or whether his health insurer would pay for rehab.)

A commentator on one of the major conservative political Web sites told his readers Tuesday that the plan the president and congressional Democrats are proposing will require mandatory nutritional counseling for obese Americans. According to this person, "Obama-care" would send those who disregard the advice to "re-education" camps.

You can't make this stuff up -- but lots of people are, and they're being encouraged to do so by those in the Republican Party who think that defeat of the president's health-care reform initiative at any cost is the GOP's only hope of substantial recovery in the midterm elections.

They might be careful what they wish for, because if our national political conversation becomes simply a continuation of talk radio by other means, dominated by people who bring guns to political rallies, who believe that the president of the United States is an alien who wants to euthanize the elderly and imprison the overweight, it won't matter which party is in power. The country will be as ungovernable as it is deluded.

(Aug. 20, 2009)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

Alihandero wrote on Aug 20, 2009 2:28 PM:

" Bill Maher Attacks Palin and calls Americans STUPID;

Left wing liberal Ruttin says "American [sic] the delusional"

The socialists continue to attack and demean the American people...

And some here ask me about who the REAL Americans are? "

jeff wrote on Aug 21, 2009 9:42 AM:

" Unfortunately Alex many Americans are stupid. "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 22, 2009 9:22 PM:

" jeff wrote on Aug 21, 2009 9:42 AM:
" Unfortunately Alex many Americans are stupid. "

On second thought, perhaps you do have a point, "jeff."

For example, it would take a stupid person to admit to committing actual crimes like burglurary [sic], vandalism and assault when they lived in, say, Hanford and then brag that they never were caught.

That would indeed reveal that this individual is very stupid amongst other things.

Yes, "jeff," I believe you are correct. "

pschultz wrote on Aug 23, 2009 9:59 AM:

" its actually refreshing to read something that makes sense....just remember folks stupid is what stupid does. quit acting like lemmings (jump right over that cliff!) start thinking for ourselves, remember if it walks like a duck...need i say more. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Aug 23, 2009 5:42 PM:

" So, how does the crime rate in Arizona compare to D.C. ?? "

watcher wrote on Aug 24, 2009 10:45 AM:

" I believe Ireland just gave up there handguns, what a shame. More to come , I am sure.
As for Arizona having firearms at a rally. No harm no foul. Crime rate is lower than Ca. Goes to show you, that it is not the firearm that is the problem. It is the person behind the trigger. What if Obama is a Muslim. No law broken. As for the health plan. What gives the government the right to dictate to the citizen what they will have. Perhaps we are no longer citizens but subjects. The ideology of the liberals is a socialist mind set. What is going to happen when the working class stops supporting the giveaway programs. When they refuse to play the liberal game. There will be "change". A little info. I am unemployed and I do not have health insurance. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Aug 24, 2009 11:42 AM:

" To: Another View: American the delusional
By Tim Rutten
Los Angeles Times

This author might want to realize that we stand before two foreign governments and its people with our weapons drawn to ensure a fair election in their respective countries.

Does that make us the space envaders from area 51 dispersing our sic justice from continent to continent. I think not, it is simply trying to form democracy in a world where none ever existed.

Obama has no plan of war he has a plan of withdrawal which is failing miserably. It is failing worse than Dick Cheney's plan for victory in Iraq. Anyone who thinks we won't now and forever have a large fighting force upon Iraqi Soil, is kidding only theirselves.

To remove our presence now will only lead to increased blood letting and even more devistation of their people.

As for Afghanistan you thought door to door fighting was bad, wait until you witness rock to rock fighting. We didn't learn a single thing in Vietnam, we are once again waging war on their homeland territory. "

jeff ff wrote on Aug 24, 2009 3:02 PM:

" "Anyone who thinks we won't now and forever have a large fighting force upon Iraqi Soil, is kidding only theirselves. "

You mean like John McCain when he said "And by the way, that reminds me of this hundred year thing. I was asked in a town hall meeting back in Florida, how long would we have a presence in Iraq? My friends, the war will be over soon, the war for all intents and purposes although the insurgency will go on for years and years and years, but it will be handled by the Iraqis, not by us, and then we decide what kind of security arrangement we want to have with the Iraqis. ..."

Was he kidding himself Fred? "

jeff ff wrote on Aug 24, 2009 3:05 PM:

" "As for Afghanistan you thought door to door fighting was bad, wait until you witness rock to rock fighting. We didn't learn a single thing in Vietnam, we are once again waging war on their homeland territory."

A war you wanted Fred, remember that. "

Con Carne wrote on Aug 24, 2009 7:43 PM:

" Maybe this clown is right. Maybe people are mad. Maybe the only salvation for this country is a revolution. "

Skip wrote on Aug 25, 2009 1:10 PM:

" Jeff resents a war "on their homeland", he would much rather have a war on "our homeland'. "

SJT wrote on Aug 25, 2009 4:43 PM:

" I'd say the last eight years were revolutionary enough - and here we stand divided. The 2000 (s)election was a coup d'état, except in this case it was pulled off by the Supreme Court, not the military, as is usually the case w/ 3rd world dictatorships. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Aug 25, 2009 7:32 PM:

" Sore losers like Gore and SJT can cry about Florida forever, that is typical of liberals, suck it up. The facts are that no matter how many times the votes were counted that idiot Gore lost. Hell, he couldn't even carry his home state, how pathetic is that. Just looking at Florida politics back then, I'm sure all the controversy over that Elian kid was enough to irk enough voters to vote pro Bush and cost Gore the election. Sure, Clinton and Reno got there way, but thankfully it led to 8 years of Bush. The country is clearly divided then and now. It basically comes down to 1/2 the country is lazy and doesn't want to carry their own weight and the other 1/2 is stuck paying for them and all their liberal programs like tax payer funded sex changes for inmates in jail... which I'm sure was supported by Republicans, right? "

aufever wrote on Aug 26, 2009 3:17 PM:

" What this author did was to ignore the fact that the guy outside the townhall meeting with the Assault Rifle was Black, just as ABC carefully cropped their segment to only show the rifle and not the color of the wearer. Another example of manufactured hate by the left happened in Denver, where a 24 year old Democrat Party Campaign Worker took a hammer to the windows of the Democrate Headquarters. Before finding out whom did it, the local mouthpiece blamed the right. One of the people with a disfigured Pres. Obama sign at one rally was in fact identified as a SIEU Member. What really bothers the Dems is they cannot keep up the facdade that people don't know what's in the bill, in the age of the internet, it takes only minutes to pull up a bill and read it on your computer. They fail to realize that they work for us. "

Deb wrote on Aug 26, 2009 9:14 PM:

" "aufever wrote on Aug 26, 2009 3:17 PM:" What this author did was to ignore the fact that the guy outside the townhall meeting with the Assault Rifle was Black, just as ABC carefully cropped their segment to only show the rifle and not the color of the wearer."

Why should the media comment on whether someone is "black" or "white" when something's occuring? IF they did that they'd be blamed for racism.

What you're assuming is that the black is the liberal and the liberals are not identifying one of their own.

Now that's racism...

I assumed conservative showing their gun pride. Which is fine by me... Just don't shoot anyone. "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Aug 27, 2009 8:41 AM:

" to aufever,

Glad you noticed that also. I think that I also heard that whole scenario was staged.

And how quickly they forget that they think that they are the only ones allowed to denounce the policies of the serving president. How they did protest during W's terms.

But now we try to challenge them to read what we have read and they cry foul!

I will admit that there have been reports of some exageration, but who actually started them? And do they ever come back with facts to rebut the statements? No!

Last question, where is all of the money going to come from to provide health insurance for all? When you approve it, can I then cancel my health insurance payments and save myself thousands of dollars? Or will I have to work and pay, and you will play and get? Doesn't sound fair to me! "

Paul wrote on Aug 27, 2009 2:11 PM:

" NotHomeGrown wrote on Aug 27, 2009 8:41 AM:

I think that I also heard that whole scenario was staged.

The whole thing was staged by a conservative radio guy. So to me, all these "staged" town hall meeting are just that.

When bushie was in office NO ONE with a gun ever showed up.

The election of the first black president brought out all those closet racist that are using ANYTHING to show their discontent with the way the majority of AMERICANS VOTED last Nov.

People carry guns because they FEAR something is about to happen and they want to be READY or they are looking to KILL something or someone.

What are these people meaning with those guns??? "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 27, 2009 6:50 PM:

" Hey lulz,

I just want to say 'thank you' for the content of your recent posts and welcome you the Sentinel online.

It seems that your comments on this topic - "America the Delusional" - are right on the money.

Continue as you see it, of course... "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 27, 2009 7:20 PM:

" Paul, some states allow the free and open carrying of legal guns, bows and other weapons as determined by that state's law.

So in this case, a black man legally had a rifle slung upside-down across his back at a political gathering. He was well dressed and peaceful in his actions from what we can determine.

If it was an illegal act, Paul - and this man was a 'man of color' too - don't you think he would have been profiled, his gun confiscated, and his butt been thrown into the slam?

Why didn't you think that would happen?

In truth, it was an act of a free people of any race, creed, or color assembling peacefully while obeying all appropriate laws.

Why can't YOU understand that Paul, and why are you disappointed that this man was treated like the respectful American citizen he exemplified so darn well? "

RobertD wrote on Aug 28, 2009 11:03 AM:

" "What are these people meaning with those guns???"

Gosh, Paul, maybe they feel that a peaceful demonsration of their 2nd Amendment rights is vital since the Obama administration has made it clear that they intend to whittle away at our "right to bear arms." "

Paul wrote on Aug 28, 2009 11:07 AM:

" Alihandero wrote on Aug 27, 2009 7:20 PM:

ali... you and others don't understand that the scene was "STAGED" by a conservative radio talk guy. SIMPLE.

It wasn't an "angry American citizen" who wants his voice heard. Normally, WE AMERICANS, make our voice heard with votes not dispalying "GUNS."

He probably got paid well and laughed all the way to the bank. And??

When I was a kid, I loved to go hunting for cottontail and the like out on Jackson Ave. before everything was plowed under. But I was going to kill something.

I never said that it was an illegal act ali... I ASKED what are they trying to PROVE.

That is a question the Secret Service, I think, is asking themselves. And instead of spending time looking out for the safety of President Obama, they have to spend time looking out for these idiots.

And if President Obama gets shot (remember the history of guns and presidents), I'm sure ali, you'll be one of the first to ask "why didn't the S. S. protect him?? "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Aug 28, 2009 12:39 PM:

" Paul, nice of you to jump in and blame it on the "conservatives", yet you don't dare address any other portion of my post.

Where is the money coming from? In one way when our dollar devalues to 1/1,000,000 of it's current value, then I will be able to pay off my hous in 1 day. Sure the lenders might complain, but hey, I would be settling my bill with legal currency. (Hold on to your Monopoly money, it may end up having more value then the US dollar as less of them are in circulation!) "

SJT wrote on Aug 28, 2009 2:21 PM:

" "What are these people meaning with those guns???

Intimidation. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Aug 28, 2009 6:51 PM:

" "What are these people meaning with those guns???

FREEDOM, when will people really get it? "

Paul wrote on Aug 31, 2009 1:07 PM:

" NotHomeGrown wrote on Aug 28, 2009 12:39 PM:

" Paul, nice of you to jump in and blame it on the "conservatives"

Blame what on the "conservatives??"

The staged mock interview with a supposed "angry American" that in TRUTH wasn't an "angry American."

The radio talk host, who happened to a conservative said it was "set up."

And unlike some others on this and other blogs who NEVER answer a question, I will try to answer yours.

Where was the anger you have now when bush was racking up and starting up all the messes we have now? Don't ever remember you or many others saying anything NEGATIVE about him or republicans then. Everything was GREAT under him.

Where's the money coming from? Beats me. I'm not the cowboy in charge.

BUT the difference between you and me is that I am willing to listen and give President Obama a "chance" which is something you won't do.

You gave bush 8, count them, 8 years and at 6 months you already wanted President Obamas head.

Fair and balanced?? Yeah, in the eyes of old, angry republicans. "

Paul wrote on Aug 31, 2009 1:29 PM:

" ToldYouSo wrote on Aug 28, 2009 6:51 PM:

" "What are these people meaning with those guns???

FREEDOM, when will people really get it? "

That's it FREEDOM!? One word. FREEDOM from what??? Is it the same freedom that Timothy McVeigh wanted???

And what are (we) the people supposed "to get?" If it's the same freedom that T. M. wanted, "we got it."

You, like others, make statements and we are supposed to understand and read exactly what you have on your mind, and what you REALLY MEAN.

Sorry, like I tell my friends, I haven't passed the mind reading class yet. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Aug 31, 2009 6:46 PM:

" Wow, all that because you don't know what "Freedom" means. You didn't even say anything aoubt the equally confusing "Intimidation" statement by SJT. However, you really are confused if you can't seperate this persons actions from Timothy McVeigh. Next time you are bored, try reading the Bill of Rights, that should give you some ideas on freedom, both having the rights and having the ability to protect them. "

Alihandero wrote on Aug 31, 2009 10:18 PM:

" OK Paul,

You find a crazy lone white ex-military individual who was a terrorist, why? Because he is white? Because he is ex-military? Because he is a terrorist?

Let's pick another random social misfit group: the Black Panthers.

What did they do to protect ‘people of color' from police brutality and social injustice?

From Wikipedia:

"Violence
From the beginning the Black Panther Party's focus on militancy came with a reputation for violence. They often took advantage of a California law which permitted carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun as long as it was publicly displayed and pointed at no one.[39] Carrying weapons openly and making threats against police officers, for example, chants like "The Revolution has co-ome, it's time to pick up the gu-un. Off the pigs!",[40] helped create the Panthers' reputation as a violent organization."

What is this, "Paul?"

A "a California law which permitted carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun as long as it was publicly displayed...?"

I don't think Newton and Cleaver attended any Tax protest tea parties, did they?

Explain away that free expression of black American ‘freedom' whydoncha? "

roflcopter wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:07 AM:

" tried posting yesterday but for reasons unknown to me my blog never made it up

i wanted to say toldyouso is completely utterly rite on this one. everyone knows guns equal freedom. when you want something and some nucklehead gets in your way you just show them your gun. thats freedom american style "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Sep 1, 2009 12:33 PM:

" to Paul, well it appears that you have now passed that mind reading class, because you make statements about me "wanting Obama's head". And nothing could be further from the truth. Obviously you haven't bothered to read all of my posts or you have forgotten them. I have made statements that I too want Obama to succed, so the nation can. But that doesn't mean that I have to agree with him on everything and that he too must compromise. But you on the other hand want everyone to follow Obama blindly, and your sarcasm about your not the Head Cowboy in charge doesn't answer where the money is coming from.
I am all for some health reform, but just don't make me pay for all of the freeloaders. If public opinion is against you, then compromise, look at other strategies that can help curb medical costs. "

Paul wrote on Sep 1, 2009 1:58 PM:

" I have a life and am not bored. I have read and believe in the, let's see, oh yeah, the Bill of Rights, the "real" US Const., voted in every election since 72', was in the Army and my son is in the military now protecting EVERYBODIES right to believe what they want.

Here's what I live by:

“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States.

I thought of some of you as I watched the "We Hate the United States": Secessionists Rally in Austin Tx, especially the ones who yelled, "I HATE THAT FLAG!" They are the ones truly "delusional" and if need be, I will put my uniform back on for them.

I don't need "to get some ideas" on what freedom means. And I HAVE protected them. I KNOW and UNDERSTAND what "freedom" means more than some of you. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Sep 1, 2009 6:25 PM:

" Paul, have you ever studied or read about Nazi Germany and Hitler's use of gun control to strip the Jewish people of their ability to protect themselves? When they had gun rights they had Freedom, when they lost their guns they lost their rights and later their lives. Who liberated them??? People from other countries that still had guns and used them for good instead of evil. How did the US break away from England, it wasn't with bows and arrows. How do you defend your own home if someone is kicking down the door, it isn't dialing 911 and hoping the cops even come to your part of the city. "

roflcopter wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:33 AM:

" right on toldyouso, lets abolish the socialist protection program known as "the cops" and give every family some firepower. thatll keep the gang members off our backs including the governmetn funded gangs "

Deb wrote on Sep 2, 2009 12:00 PM:

" Nothomegrown wrote: "I am all for some health reform, but just don't make me pay for all of the freeloaders. If public opinion is against you, then compromise, look at other strategies that can help curb medical costs. "

Don't you realize that you're already paying for "so called freeloaders" - through the welfare system, through the state/federal funding to hospitals who must take the uninsured? AND you're paying excessively, because those hospitals can charge the going rate for a visit to the emerg room when in fact it was simply something that could have been a office visit.

What about the NON - freeloaders... Those who pay taxes, earn amounts in excess of state (medi-cal) programs and less than federal medicade. Earn more than healthy children allows. Those with pre-existing conditions whereby the cost is so exorbitant it precludes them from obtaining insurance OR the ones who have run out of the 18 mo cobra, or those who can't afford cobra?

The examples are endless....

What about those people who are NOT freeloaders? "

Paul wrote on Sep 2, 2009 1:29 PM:

" ToldYouSo wrote on Sep 1, 2009 6:25

Please read the following:

The Myth of Nazi Gun Control
By N. A. Browne
"the Nazis did not seize power by force of arms, but through their success at the ballot box (and the political cunning of Hitler himself)."

"The Law on Firearms and Ammunition, was introduced to Germany in 1928 took the right to bear arms away from every German citizen, not just the Jews."

So EVERYBODY had no way to defend themselves.

You seem to think that "guns" are the answer to everything. Well, so does al-Qaida. They use "guns" for "intimidation" or to blow off your head, take your pick.

I also believe that they use it to show the world that by using guns they are "free" men and have the "freedom" to ATTACK anyone that gets in their way.

al-Qaida "HATES" the AMERICAN FLAG (rally in Austin Tx.) They "HATE" the US GOVERNMENT (rally in Austin Tx.).

On Sept. 11, those of you that have such a deep HATRED for the US Gov't and President Obama think about that. "

Paul wrote on Sep 2, 2009 1:45 PM:

" roflcopter wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:33 AM:

" right on toldyouso, lets abolish the socialist protection program known as "the cops" and give every family some firepower. thatll keep the gang members off our backs including the governmetn funded gangs "

Good thing for you that in AMERICA you have the "freedom" to preach all that garbage.

Some would fit right in with Al-Qaida.

Good to KNOW that as Sept. 11 is right around the corner. "

Alihandero wrote on Sep 2, 2009 6:28 PM:

" Deb commented on this comment:

Nothomegrown wrote: "I am all for some health reform, but just don't make me pay for all of the freeloaders. If public opinion is against you, then compromise, look at other strategies that can help curb medical costs. "

As you disagree with Nothomegrown's intelligent suggestion, what is your solution then, Deb?

Free healthcare for all without the burden of an insurance policy? "

Bobb wrote on Sep 2, 2009 6:49 PM:

" Deb; My posts have not been getting through the last few days. I agree with you 100% on your comments about Health Care. Those in Prison or on Welfare get taken care of now. It is those who have such high deductibles and co-pays or lose their insurance because of the company closing or being laid off. HIPPA and COBRA are very expensive and that is their way of getting a person to drop their coverage. If you lose your insurance and have a pre-existing problem, even as little as using a cholesterol medication, you won't be accepted by an Insurance Co. They only wish to insure the healthy. can't blame them though, that's where the profit is, no claims. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Sep 2, 2009 9:58 PM:

" Paul, maybe you are confused not being a mind reader of where I stand. However to clear the confusion I fully support the United States and anyone who tries to burn a flag in front of me, ever, will find that out the hard way. I hate Al-Qaida and my biggest complaint about Bush is that he was too soft on them militarily and in interegating them. I truly Love my County and I am totally disappointed with Obama, that is not a conflict just the truth. Your little comment on Nazi gun control only proved my point, a helpless society IS helpless to protect their rights or any group of them chosen to be exterminated. That is no myth at all. Hitler won the election by lying to the people and saying exactly what they wanted to hear "CHANGE" ... does that sound familiar.... it should. "

Paul wrote on Sep 3, 2009 11:10 AM:

" You are using a classic republican arguement that because there is no access to "guns" there can be NO defense for the people.

That is also the view of many RADICAL MILITIA groups that are flourishing in the US today.

And may I add that this was a view that Timothy McVeigh had. "To water the tree of liberty."

And I have a had time seperating the TWO and I also think some here. The view that the United States Government was the ultimate bully is what most radical home grown right wing terrorist hold true.

We elect our president through peaceful means namely the ballot box. I am good with that, i Believe that to be true.

So my suggestion to you is that if you are "totally disappointed with Obama" in 2012 join a party and work your frustrations towards ELECTING our next leader, instead of using guns, threats, intimidation, lies or rumors and a fixation on the hatred of the US Gov't and its leaders. "

manuel wrote on Sep 3, 2009 11:46 AM:

" Whatchdog What is so important with Irag, should America sent troops to Africa also, they are having ethnic wars there to, you forget that Bush/Cheney started the war not Obama. the Republicans fear that he will succeed "

NotHomeGrown wrote on Sep 3, 2009 12:35 PM:

" to Deb, I don't understand why you jumped on me. Didn't I say that I am for Health reform? I am just not for everything that Obama is trying to rush through. But that doesn't mean that I agree with some of the proposals. But I still ask where is all of the money going to come from? Some of the reform needs to be the government itself. Just today it was reported the Medicare was paying too much for wheelchairs. So to me this is one point that proves that the government controlling health care is not a good idea.
Preexisting covered - I agree
Taking your health plan with you - I agree

But the points that you point out, i.e. Emergency care provided free of charge. That to me needs to be defined better. Having the sniffles to me isn't an Emergency, but that is what those not covered do.

Start reducing malpractice awards and you will see lower health care. "

ToldYouSo wrote on Sep 3, 2009 9:04 PM:

" As a Republican, I'm not very worried or afraid Obama will succeed.... not at all based on his lack of ability and liberal views. I also can't wait to try and vote him out of office along with our pathetic Congress and Senate on the next opportunity. I believe and support safe and fair elections and he did win. That doesn't mean I share any of his liberal views or that I need to. Also, it was the Democrats that were so afraid that Bush would succeed that they spent years of hard work making sure he couldn't and who are still trying to put him down to make up for Obama's list of broken promises since he was elected. For Paul, you either support the Constitution or you don't. If you don't support the 2nd Amendment you certainly don't truly support the 1st Amendment. People have rights to join militias that you are so riled up about but not to break laws. Sounds like you are a little paranoid. "




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