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Military Update: JCS chairman: It’s time women served on submarines

Women should be allowed to serve aboard America's fleet of nuclear submarines, the nation's top military officer, Adm. Michael Mullen, quietly has told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

If the Navy agrees to it, this would be a huge policy change and potentially a significant expansion of career opportunities for female officers and sailors.

Women have been barred by Navy policy from submarines, even as the sea service began 15 years ago to integrate females into other seagoing combat roles including aboard surface warships and in fighter jets.

Mullen, former chief of naval operations and a career surface warfare officer, made his position on submarines known in written responses to questions from the committee to prepare for Mullen's confirmation hearing to serve a second two-year term as chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

"As an advocate for improving the diversity of our force, I believe we should continue to broaden opportunities for women. One policy I would like to see changed is the one barring their service aboard submarines," Mullen told senators.

Opponents of lifting the ban have argued for decades that space is at a premium on submarines. To accommodate privacy needs of females, including separate berthing and "heads" or toilet/shower facilities, would be "prohibitively expensive," Navy has argued. Watch duty, bunk management, extra supplies and incidents of fraternization and harassment would complicate submarine life, according to one study done for the Navy in 1994.

No senator actually raised the female submariner issue with Mullen during his Sept. 15 confirmation hearing. The focus was Afghanistan and Iraq. And Navy officials had no immediate comment on Mullen's position.

Mullen's spokesman, Navy Capt. John Kirby, said the chairman did tell Adm. Gary Roughead, current chief of naval operations, what position Mullen was going to take on women submariners in comments back to committee.

Mullen had focused some attention on this issue in the past, Kirby explained. While serving as CNO, Mullen had asked Adm. Kirkland H. Donald, director of naval nuclear propulsion, and other submarine community leaders to "take a look" at ending the ban on women in the "silent service." That review was still underway when Mullen stepped down in 2007 to become chairman and, as such, senior military adviser to the president.

Allowing women on submarines, Kirby said, "was something he always had in his mind and still believes in."

But Mullen doesn't intend to hold "meetings or discussions with the Navy on this," Kirby added. "As a former CNO, he understands the Title 10 responsibilities that the CNO has. I don't think he is keen to be too deeply involved in what is clearly the Navy's responsibility to manage the force."

As to why Mullen even raised the issue, Kirby said, "He was answering a question honestly about women in combat, and that's how he really feels."

Among the dozens of written questions posed to Mullen was this: "Does the Department of Defense have sufficient flexibility under current law to make changes to assignment policy for women when needed?"

Mullen answered that the department has all the flexibility it needs. But he referenced military women's "tremendous contributions to our national defense. They are an integral part of the force and are proven performers in the operational environment and under fire."

He noted too that DoD policies "fully recognize that women are assigned to units and positions that are not immune from the threats present in a combat environment. In fact, women are assigned to units and positions that may necessitate combat actions -- actions for which they are fully trained and prepared to respond and to succeed."

More than 100 U.S. service women have been killed since 2001 while serving in Iraq, Afghanistan or Kuwait.

One Capitol Hill source said he was told by a submarine community officer that the Navy had readied plans at one point to allow women to serve aboard Ohio-class strategic missile submarines. Kirby was asked if Mullen had these larger boats, nicknamed "boomers," in mind for gender integration as opposed to the smaller attack submarines.

"I don't believe he's made that distinction in his mind yet," Kirby said.

The Navy was under enormous pressure a decade ago from the Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Services (DACOWITS) to open the submarine community to women. DACOWITS at the time was an influential 34-member advisory group to the secretary of defense.

In 1999, the Navy allowed several members of this group aboard different classes of submarines while underway. For a few days they lived aboard. But they returned to shore unconvinced that the gender ban was appropriate.

That fall DACOWITS unanimously recommended that the Navy secretary and the CNO "commit to the integration of women in the submarine community and develop an implementation plan."

Given that submarines are built to last 40 years, the group suggested it was unrealistic to assume women wouldn't serve aboard these platforms at some point. So, long term, the group wanted new Virginia-class attack submarines to be redesigned to accommodate mixed crews. Short term, DACOWITS wanted women assigned soon to the larger missile boats.

If there were plans drafted to begin gender integration, they were shelved after the Bush administration arrived in 2001.

With the Pentagon under new management, the number of DACOWITS members was cut to 15, their charter was watered down and their influence waned. Gender integration on submarines fell from the group's agenda by April 2001.

With a single sentence in a 72-page packet returned to senators, Mullen has restored and elevated the issue to new heights.

To comment, e-mail milupdate@aol.com, write to Military Update, P.O. Box 231111, Centreville, VA, 20120-1111 or visit www.militaryupdate.com.

(Sept. 25, 2009)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

pnotes wrote on Sep 25, 2009 3:34 PM:

" NO! Women should not serve in the Navy on submarines.

The sexual consequences will be horrible. When you put men and women in a small space together it is human nature to have sex.

Pregnancy and STD's will become rampant.

I say no. "

Alihandero wrote on Sep 29, 2009 4:22 AM:

" Tom Philpott says in the above:

"DACOWITS...the group wanted new Virginia-class attack submarines to be redesigned to accommodate mixed crews."

Or simply: "DACOWITS wants Women Under Da Sea!"

(Don't you just love the term 'DACOWITS?')

Now I am not a submariner by a long shot so I would really like to hear their serious opinions on this, but, rather than redesign whole submarine fleets, why don't we train and man (pardon the term) entire subs with only female sailors.

It would save money in the long run and make everyone happy except maybe the liberal progressives.

Or the current submariners perhaps... "

Bobb wrote on Sep 29, 2009 6:04 PM:

" I am not sure of the feasibility of sharing close quarters in a submarine but women are certainly capable of operating sophisticated equipment. My neighbors, husband and wife were both F-18 pilots when they were stationed a NAS Lemoore. She actually had more combat hours then her husband. This young couple were what any parent would wish their children to aspire to. Courteous, caring and go-getter's. They were transferred to the East Coast a few years ago and my wife and I miss them even though we hear from them occasionally. Both are now out of the service. "

manuel wrote on Sep 29, 2009 6:53 PM:

" Why not, as log as they take the pill "

baristamclane wrote on Sep 30, 2009 3:41 PM:

" I've asked my husband countless times why women aren't included in the submarine fleet, and he (nor has any other submariner I've spoken to) can give me a straightforward answer.

And pnotes, have you ever smelled a submariner after being on board for just one day (let alone a full deployment)? They stink. I think that on its own would discourage the rampant fornication you fear. (On that note, how would it differ from the behaviors that occur on any of the surface boats?) "

ToldYouSo wrote on Sep 30, 2009 6:35 PM:

" Clinton would say "don't ask don't tell" "

Alihandero wrote on Oct 1, 2009 6:02 AM:

" ToldYouSo wrote on Sep 30, 2009 6:35 PM:
" Clinton would say "don't ask don't tell"

More so ToldYouSo...probably he would say (with a wagging finger):

"...But I want to say one thing to the American people. I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman..."

And no one stood up to shout "You Lie" except maybe Monica and Hillary!

Hellooo sailor! "

manuel wrote on Oct 1, 2009 11:07 AM:

" ToldYouSO I agree on this one "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 1, 2009 2:41 PM:

" To: baristamclane wrote on Sep 30, 2009 3:41 PM:

From a surface sailor's point of view, the surface ships pull into ports more frequently, they allow liberty more often and are apples and oranges different when it comes to operating at sea.

Although a Submarine chases all the surface ship flotillas, it doesn't necessarily surface often enough nor is it equipped for the special needs a female sailor may have that a male salor doesn't. Although they may have perfume, and cosmetics and smell a bit different there are other things they want need and desire that are not available on a submarine.

Where would they park their pink cadillacs, when their avon orders arrived how would they receive them? A submarine does not come equipped with a nursery for single mothers. Finally and the most honest answer I can offer is there is only one Chief of the Boat on a Submarine. "

manuel wrote on Oct 1, 2009 3:20 PM:

" Alihandero Is that like read my lips? "

ToldYouSo wrote on Oct 2, 2009 7:04 PM:

" Anytime the government/military engages in open and intentional sexual descrimination I think the matter deserves a very serious review. If any public company even talked about this you can bet they would have already been sued and lost in court plus punitive damages would have been awarded. "

Alihandero wrote on Oct 3, 2009 5:09 PM:

" manuel wrote on Oct 1, 2009 3:20 PM:
" Alihandero Is that like read my lips? "

No amigo, I always use American Sign Language because it is an actual language form and it is, of course, AMERICAN.

Look, I'm using it to communicate a universal thought to you right now! {;->) "

manuel wrote on Oct 4, 2009 8:45 PM:

" Alihandero Was Bush an alien? I thought he was an american, anybody check his birth certificate "

precise wrote on Oct 5, 2009 6:39 PM:

" Having been a Chief Of the Boat on a Nuclear Fast Attack Submarine, the two major problems I see are lack of space and the attitudes of the wives of the men. I served 20 years on Diesel and Nuclear Fast Attacks and also on Fleet Ballistic Submarines. Are the women capable? My answer is yes. But I can’t see it happen due to the attitudes held inside and outside the Navy. Please don’t compare submarine duty to the civilian work environment. For those who thing submarines stink, the air on a Nuclear Powered Submarine is cleaner than the air you are presently breathing. The old Diesel Boats did smell, but the new ones don’t. "

Bobb wrote on Oct 6, 2009 2:31 PM:

" Just maybe there is a simple solution to women operating submarines. Why not designate some submarines to all women crews and others to all men crews. Problem solved. Precise: An old friend now deceased told me that when you came into port after a long deployment on a Nuclear Submarine you would actually become nauseated from the bad air in our world. That on the Sub was so pure that his allergies would come back and it took some adjusting to regular air. I guess he was serious. "

manuel wrote on Oct 8, 2009 11:49 AM:

" I remember reading a long time ago that the Japanese had women to help their troops pass the time you might say, this was in world war 2 "

Alihandero wrote on Oct 9, 2009 5:50 AM:

" Well "manuel,' it won't matter much when the Nobel Prize winner formally rescinds the "don't ask - don't tell" policy... "

manuel wrote on Oct 9, 2009 12:54 PM:

" Alihandero To bad they don't give a noble price for attacking Irag for oil, I guess they gave it to Obama for trying to make peace in the world after 8 years of Bush/Cheney "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 9, 2009 6:55 PM:

" To: manuel wrote on Oct 8, 2009 11:49 AM:

You heard wrong manuel, what they had were slaves from islands they attacked and conquered and raped and pilaged the trible population. Sometimes taking those women hostage and with them on their conquests to capture more ialands. That is how the story goes in the military and I would bet it is not far from the truth. "

Watchdog Fred wrote on Oct 9, 2009 6:57 PM:

" To: manuel wrote on Oct 8, 2009 11:49 AM:

Is there a coveted prize for spending the most money during your first year as president? If so I guess he wins that award as well. "

Alihandero wrote on Oct 9, 2009 7:27 PM:

" manuel wrote on Oct 9, 2009 12:54 PM:
"I guess they gave it to Obama for trying to make peace in the world..."

Before other posters shout out "you lie" and "wrong again,' please show us here some research in hard copy or online and if you don't know how to do it properly I will show you...or ask a scholar who has politics better to your liking... "




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