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Traffic circle in Corcoran? Maybe

Some might not know about the risks at the Highway 43/Whitley Avenue intersection in Corcoran. But for approximately 20 local residents who came to a town hall meeting Tuesday night at Corcoran's City Hall, the crossing is notorious for bone-crunching collisions.

In the fog, pulling out onto Highway 43 from the Whitley crossing plays like Russian roulette, because there is no stop for Highway 43 traffic barreling north or south. In the words of Kings County supervisor Richard Valle, people who want to get onto or cross the highway there "say a quick prayer and punch it."

Some don't make it. City councilman Dick Haile said he personally held someone as they died after a crash there.

Everybody wants something to be done. But the solution suggested by Caltrans is unusual: A traffic circle that would circulate cars and trucks from all four directions in a counterclockwise direction.

Traffic circles, or "roundabouts," are common in some parts of the world, including Mexico, but are rarely seen in California.

The interchange doesn't meet state standards for the amount of traffic required to install a stop light, said Caltrans district director John Liu.

Liu estimated it would take at least eight years for traffic to swell enough at the intersection to meet the criteria for a light.

In his presentation, Liu's main argument for the traffic circle was safety. According to him, a traffic light instead of the two-way stop currently in place might cut down on the severity of some accidents, but probably wouldn't reduce the number.

Traffic circles have worked at other high speed rural intersections, such as in Kansas and Oregon, Liu said.

Liu was at pains to dispel any ideas that a traffic circle would be cheaper than a light. In fact, he said, it would be more expensive -- around $2 million to build.

Caltrans would likely pick up 75 percent of the tab, with the county -- and possibly Corcoran -- supplying the rest. The county has already applied for a federal grant to fund improvements at the intersection.

Audience members started off fairly skeptical. Many wondered how it would work in thick fog. Liu said it would force everybody to slow down.

Haile asked about whether large farm vehicles and trucks could negotiate the circle. Liu said any highway legal vehicle should do fine.

Corcoran resident Terrell DeVaney asked Liu why Caltrans installed traffic lights and not traffic circles at some Highway 43 crossings north of Hanford.

"We were behind the times," Liu said, noting that the idea of traffic circles has only recently caught on in the U.S.

By the end of the discussion, some had changed their minds. An informal vote found about half the audience in favor of the idea. Supporters included DeVaney, who called the intersection "a killer."

But construction of a traffic circle is two years away, Liu said. Meanwhile, with fog season here, the deadly risk at the crossing persists. At a minimum, residents seemed eager for Caltrans to install flashing warning beacons and better road stripes.

Caltrans is looking into doing that as soon as possible, Liu said.

The reporter can be reached at 583-2432.

(Nov. 4, 2009)

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The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Hanford Sentinel

pnut93212 wrote on Nov 4, 2009 2:55 PM:

" yes.. it is a very dangerous intersection during the foggy season.. I got a ticket once for speeding across (accelerating quickly) the intersection from the stop sign. CHP saying i was a reckless driving.. challenged it, and i won.. shoot.. i not paying $800 for driving defensively!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 4, 2009 4:51 PM:

" Caltrans is not just another bureaucracy, it is a CALIFORNIA government bureaucracy. Get my drift?

Digest this politically correct statement:

"Traffic circles, or "roundabouts," are common in some parts of the world, including Mexico, but are rarely seen in California."

Does that mean that Mexican nationals will be very much at home and safer with this device?

And how about this Caltrans bureaucrat's quote:

"We were behind the times," Liu said, noting that the idea of traffic circles has only recently caught on in the U.S.

So to catch up with the "times" and to become more 'trendy' like overseas, we apparently are being forced to buy an opinion of the government.

It is said that the criteria for a very familiar traffic signal light is for MORE TRAFFIC, right?

So with the accepted growth figures for the Central Valley and Kings County, isn't that a given?

Why not plan in advance for the area's future growth and install the less expensive/ more familiar signal lights which would be instantly recognizable and accepted by American drivers?

Let Caltrans and Mr. Liu experiment with their expensive grand design elsewhere! "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 4, 2009 6:19 PM:

" I posted this in the “Alcohol-related arrests take a Halloween spike” column but it bears adding it here:

I just thought about drunk drivers entering the upcoming traffic roundabout on Hwy. 43.

Going round, and around, and around...

What if they took the wrong exit whilst going around and wound up entering into the opposite direction lane? Change a t-bone to head on accident?

Wouldn't do that with a traffic signal stop light, would they? "

SJT wrote on Nov 5, 2009 4:59 PM:

" The tire skid marks at the traffic lights on SR41 between Lemoore and the 99 interchange are a testament of how traffic lights are not the cure-all toward collision avoidance on rural highways. Some extend well past the stop line and into the intersection. Not sure how many ended up crashing there, but the signs say it happens. "

Alan G wrote on Nov 5, 2009 6:17 PM:

" I picture that scene from National Lampoon's European Vacation where Clark and the Griswolds enter the traffic circle and drive for hours because he can't figure out how to exit. "

SJT wrote on Nov 6, 2009 9:12 AM:

" Roundabouts are not new..

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/safety/roundabouts/washingtons.htm "

roflcopter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:26 AM:

" roundabouts? whats next? were all going to have to send are kids to hitler yooth camps? the governmeant is going to take our guns away? this socialist agenda needs to stop!!!!!1111 if i wanted to live in mexico or yourup id have been born there instead of god blessing me as a reel amurikan "

roflcopter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:29 AM:

" i know whats goings on here, they think if they keep us driving round and round we wont notice the libs stealing our cuntry from us, give me my cuntry back you libs, this is gods cuntry and you will know his name is the lord one of these days "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 6, 2009 3:57 PM:

" Well "SJT,"

From the above article:
"Traffic circles, or "roundabouts," are common in some parts of the world, including Mexico, but are rarely seen in California."

Your Washington state link shows that roundabouts ARE rare, uncommon, and need specific instructions for the unfamiliar driver. In that 120 page report, the word 'roundabout' was used only five times.

Roundabouts are indeed new to this area.

And are NOT APPROPRIATE for all intersections.

But you do know that, folks. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 6, 2009 4:06 PM:

" SJT wrote on Nov 5, 2009 4:59 PM:
" The tire skid marks at the traffic lights on SR41 between Lemoore and the 99 interchange are a testament of how traffic lights are not the cure-all toward collision avoidance on rural highways."

So, "SJT," you now want a traffic circle or roundabout at all of those intersections instead of traffic signal lights?

What a brilliant suggestion! "

Armonian wrote on Nov 6, 2009 6:12 PM:

" I have driven in roundabouts in Oregon. They work well when there are courteous drivers who let other people into the roundabout. If not, only one entrance and one exit is used with steady flow. there is nothing to regulate who can go next. I do not think these traffic circles would be appropriate for highway speeds. You cannot enter a traffic circle and travel 270 degrees in a turn at highway speeds unless the circle was very large. I think the problems of all the skid marks on traffic lights as used on Highways 41 and 43 are caused by not using traffic actuators for the main road, yellow lights that have been shortened and instant triggering of a yellow light from someone approaching at a side road. The lights on 41 and 43 are insane. It is a wonder there are not more accidents and people killed at these. The definition of a highway or freeway are "limited access" roads used to prevent motorists traveling at different speeds and different directions. "

Deb wrote on Nov 9, 2009 1:21 PM:

" When living in the Tracy area for 10 years, what was common out in the rural areas and more specifically on Rte J4 from Tracy to Brentwood where th eBotts' dots. As a driving having to experience the fog and drivers with no regard to the rules of the road, they were wonderful. I've often wondered why they're not used in the rural areas of the Valley... Also, periodically throughout CA one encounters the rumble strips too.

I would think a combination of these would certainly be helpful, but then I'm not an engineer... "

SJT wrote on Nov 9, 2009 4:24 PM:

" Ali, are you suggesting that a city the size of Corcoran sits just west of all those traffic lights along hiway 41? I'm not. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 9, 2009 4:25 PM:

" Hey Deb,

That is a pretty smart suggestion and I agree 100%! "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 9, 2009 4:31 PM:

" I see that Kingsburg is installing a roundabout in the city proper, where they really do belong.

Read about it here:

http://www.kingsburgrecorder.com/articles/2009/11/04/news/doc4af21e028c3a9026935355.txt "

Bobb wrote on Nov 9, 2009 7:43 PM:

" Deb; Very good suggestion. I just returned from Utah and every other state I traveled through had the rumble strips along the side of their roads. They not only wake up drowsy drivers but in the fog they would be great. The eBots" dots, I call them thump-er bumps would make the driver aware of the center line. Good suggestion but the way Ca. diverts it's measure C money to high speed rail an the general budget to make up for their shot comings I doubt if they have the money for much of anything. "

X111 wrote on Nov 11, 2009 9:20 AM:

" It's a good thing we have people like Alihandero around to take on issues crucial to the betterment of our society, such as: The appropriateness of roundabouts. "

Alihandero wrote on Nov 11, 2009 2:33 PM:

" X111 wrote on Nov 11, 2009 9:20 AM:
" It's a good thing we have people like Alihandero around to take on issues crucial to the betterment of our society, such as: The appropriateness of roundabouts. "

Thank you very much, "thirteen."

Whatever it takes... "




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